Assumption and Coronation in Bible

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As Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange says:

“These two great theological arguments taken respectively from Mary’s fullness of grace united to her special blessing, and her association with Jesus in His perfect victory, prove that the Assumption is implicitly revealed and capable of definition as an article of faith” (The Mother of the Saviour and Our Interior Life).
 
The best answers to these kind of questions is to go right to the source

The Church is very explicit in defining a doctrine like the Assumption, with respect to how the doctrine came to be.

The Coronation is a mystery of the Rosary, but not a doctrine to my knowledge.
That was a question I posed in another thread if the Coronation of Mary had also been made a doctrine or dogma (I get those words confused) of the Catholic
Church. I never got an answer.
 
That was a question I posed in another thread if the Coronation of Mary had also been made a doctrine or dogma (I get those words confused) of the Catholic
Church. I never got an answer.
No, the coronation of Mary is not a doctrine or dogma, but a pious belief/small “t” tradition held for centuries by the faithful. Of course, it could be raised to a doctrine, but so far the Church hasn’t seen the need to do that. 🙂
 
No, the coronation of Mary is not a doctrine or dogma, but a pious belief/small “t” tradition held for centuries by the faithful. Of course, it could be raised to a doctrine, but so far the Church hasn’t seen the need to do that. 🙂
To Ambrose, Seven Sorrows and Della,

Yes, the Coronation of Mary is an infallible Catholic Doctrine.

The word doctrine simply means teaching. When we capitalize it, we say that it is an infallible Teaching. And yes, the Coronation of Mary is an infallible Doctrine.

The proof that it is an infallible Doctrine can be found in Revelations 12:1, where Mary is described as being crowned with 12 stars, in heaven.

Then, we see that the same Document that declared the Assumption of Mary, declares her to be the Queen of Heaven:

*26. Often there are theologians and preachers who, following in the footsteps of the holy Fathers,(20) have been rather free in their use of events and expressions taken from Sacred Scripture to explain their belief in the Assumption. Thus, to mention only a few of the texts rather frequently cited in this fashion, some have employed the words of the psalmist: “Arise, O Lord, into your resting place: you and the ark, which you have sanctified”(21); and have looked upon the Ark of the Covenant, built of incorruptible wood and placed in the Lord’s temple, as a type of the most pure body of the Virgin Mary, preserved and exempt from all the corruption of the tomb and raised up to such glory in heaven. Treating of this subject, they also describe her as the Queen entering triumphantly into the royal halls of heaven and sitting at the right hand of the divine Redeemer.(22) Likewise they mention the Spouse of the Canticles “that goes up by the desert, as a pillar of smoke of aromatical spices, of myrrh and frankincense” to be crowned.(23) These are proposed as depicting that heavenly Queen and heavenly Spouse who has been lifted up to the courts of heaven with the divine Bridegroom.
*
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-xii_apc_19501101_munificentissimus-deus.html

Another proof, is that it is taught in the Catechism that she is the Queen of all things:

*966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509*

All Catholic Doctrines are infallible. Even before they are declared so by a formal Dogmatic proclamation. Thus, the Assumption was infallible Doctrine before it was declared thus by a Dogmatic proclamation. The proclamations merely confirm and define that which has previously been held as Doctrine.
 
Mary’s title “Queen of Heaven and Earth” is not a doctrine. Yes, of course she reigns, but that title has never been officially recognized as doctrinal. It’s a matter of sensus fidei rather than defined doctrine.
 
Mary’s title “Queen of Heaven and Earth” is not a doctrine. Yes, of course she reigns, but that title has never been officially recognized as doctrinal. It’s a matter of sensus fidei rather than defined doctrine.
I’ve shown you in the Bible, the Papal declaration of the Assumption and the Catechism. If you still wish to not believe, that is your problem.
 
That was a question I posed in another thread if the Coronation of Mary had also been made a doctrine or dogma (I get those words confused) of the Catholic
Church. I never got an answer.
Hi!

Doctrine vs. Dogma:
In general, doctrine is all Church teaching in matters of faith and morals. Dogma is more narrowly defined as that part of doctrine which has been divinely revealed and which the Church has formally defined and declared to be believed as revealed…
The Church’s magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these. (CCC 88)
(catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-difference-between-doctrine-and-dogma
)
The Coronation is a development of the Faith–an understanding of what has transpired. As far as I know it is not a Dogma. The Immaculate Conception is (catholicnewsagency.com/resources/mary/general-information/the-four-marian-dogmas/; newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Thank you for the info.
Hi!

Glad to be of help… I’ve just noticed your signature’s Scriptural passages… I wonder, why is it that those who hold to the “authority” of Sacred Scriptures and that purport that they are Obedient to the Word of God completely dismiss this exalted Creation Narrative, when they viewing the contraception and abortion issues?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I’ve shown you in the Bible, the Papal declaration of the Assumption and the Catechism. If you still wish to not believe, that is your problem.
I have never said this before, but that is uncharitable. :mad:

Della is merely clearing up a distinction between a dogmatic definition and an ancient belief/teaching. There IS a difference. But you accuse her of not believing for trying to help you. :eek: I suppose you consider me a heretic as well. :rolleyes:
 
I have never said this before, but that is uncharitable. :mad:

Della is merely clearing up a distinction between a dogmatic definition and an ancient belief/teaching. There IS a difference. But you accuse her of not believing for trying to help you. :eek: I suppose you consider me a heretic as well. :rolleyes:
Read it in context. She does not believe ME. Even though I have provided proof from Catholic authoritative sources. She offers only her opinion to contradict. Therefore, I have no time to argue.

Furhtermore, all ancient Beliefs and Teachings of the Church are infallible Doctrines. They do not have to be sogmatically defined to be infallible. That is precisely the point I made with evidence from Scripture, Papal pronouncement and the Catechism. Your statements to the contrary do not over ride Catholic Teaching.
 
7 Sorrows, Ambrose and Della deny that the Coronation or Queenship of Mary is an infallible Catholic Doctrine. Where do you stand?
Hi, De Maria!

…I’m old school–schooled by a super devoted Catholic… while my understanding is limited, I find that, once the Church makes a pronouncement, it is my obligation to side by her; I may, as with the Immaculate Conception or the Coronation or Queenship, determine to study the Church’s Doctrine… but my findings, from Scriptures, have been that the Church has offered sound Teaching.

Now, is it infallible?

Jesus states that not even the gates of Hades/hell can overcome the Church; He also states that He will remain with her till the end of times; He further states that the other Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, will be sent by Him so that He may lead the Church to the Fullness of Truth… now put this together with the Delegation made to Cephas… and it is inescapable that, in matters of Faith, the Church’s Teaching is infallible!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
7 Sorrows, Ambrose and Della deny that the Coronation or Queenship of Mary is an infallible Catholic Doctrine. Where do you stand?
I never wrote that. I clarified my statement, but you persist in accusing me of “not believing” when I nowhere stated what I believed or didn’t believe. Distinctions are important. It would be better if you learned how to make them if you wish to have a decent conversation about any topic.
 
7 Sorrows, Ambrose and Della deny that the Coronation or Queenship of Mary is an infallible Catholic Doctrine. Where do you stand?
:confused::eek:

Did I say I denied that the Coronation or Queenship of Mary? I don’t think so.
We have Scriptural Rosaries and one of the Glorious Mysteries is the Coronation of
Mary. I said I ASKED on another thread if it was dogma or doctrine like the
Assumption of Mary, but did not get an answer so I asked again on this
thread.
 
Hi, De Maria!

…I’m old school–schooled by a super devoted Catholic… while my understanding is limited, I find that, once the Church makes a pronouncement, it is my obligation to side by her; I may, as with the Immaculate Conception or the Coronation or Queenship, determine to study the Church’s Doctrine… but my findings, from Scriptures, have been that the Church has offered sound Teaching.

Now, is it infallible?

Jesus states that not even the gates of Hades/hell can overcome the Church; He also states that He will remain with her till the end of times; He further states that the other Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, will be sent by Him so that He may lead the Church to the Fullness of Truth… now put this together with the Delegation made to Cephas… and it is inescapable that, in matters of Faith, the Church’s Teaching is infallible!

Maran atha!

Angel
Thanks for the reply. It sounds as though you’re saying that the Doctrine of the Queenship of Mary is infallible Catholic Doctrine. Did I understand you correctly?

If so, I agree.
 
I never wrote that. I clarified my statement, but you persist in accusing me of “not believing” when I nowhere stated what I believed or didn’t believe. Distinctions are important. It would be better if you learned how to make them if you wish to have a decent conversation about any topic.
You said, and I quote:
No, the coronation of Mary is not a doctrine or dogma, but a pious belief/small “t” tradition held for centuries by the faithful. Of course, it could be raised to a doctrine, but so far the Church hasn’t seen the need to do that.
No, the coronation of Mary is not a doctrine or dogma

Then you said:
Mary’s title “Queen of Heaven and Earth” is not a doctrine. …
I haven’t seen any further clarifications. But if you now accept it, that is fine.
 
:confused::eek:

Did I say I denied that the Coronation or Queenship of Mary? I don’t think so.
We have Scriptural Rosaries and one of the Glorious Mysteries is the Coronation of
Mary. I said I ASKED on another thread if it was dogma or doctrine like the
Assumption of Mary, but did not get an answer so I asked again on this
thread.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. The answer is that it is infallible Doctrine based on the fact that it has been taught by the ordinary Magisterium from the beginning.

Lumen Gentium #25:

…25. … For bishops are preachers of the faith, who lead new disciples to Christ, and they are authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach to the people committed to them the faith they must believe and put into practice, and by the light of the Holy Spirit illustrate that faith. They bring forth from the treasury of Revelation new things and old,(164) making it bear fruit and vigilantly warding off any errors that threaten their flock.(165) Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. …Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility,** they nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly whenever, even though dispersed through the world, but still maintaining the bond of communion among themselves and with the successor of Peter, and authentically teaching matters of faith and morals, they are in agreement on one position as definitively to be held.**(40*) This is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church, whose definitions must be adhered to with the submission of faith.(41*)…
 
Sorry for the misunderstanding. The answer is that it is infallible Doctrine based on the fact that it has been taught by the ordinary Magisterium from the beginning.

Lumen Gentium #25:

…25. … For bishops are preachers of the faith, who lead new disciples to Christ, and they are authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach to the people committed to them the faith they must believe and put into practice, and by the light of the Holy Spirit illustrate that faith. They bring forth from the treasury of Revelation new things and old,(164) making it bear fruit and vigilantly warding off any errors that threaten their flock.(165) Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. …Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility,** they nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly whenever, even though dispersed through the world, but still maintaining the bond of communion among themselves and with the successor of Peter, and authentically teaching matters of faith and morals, they are in agreement on one position as definitively to be held.**(40*) This is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church, whose definitions must be adhered to with the submission of faith.(41*)…
Thank you for the information.
 
Thanks for the reply. It sounds as though you’re saying that the Doctrine of the Queenship of Mary is infallible Catholic Doctrine. Did I understand you correctly?

If so, I agree.
Hi, De Maria!

These are found in Scriptures and in the Practice of the ancient Church, so it can only be infallible Catholic Doctrine.

I think the problem people have is that they seem to think that individuals can not have an opinion that is divergent… this has happened and will continue to happen as long as man has the ability to fire up the neurons; the difference between holding an opinion and creating/endorsing heresy is the temerity of rejecting Church’s Doctrine on grounds that there’s an alternative Deposit of Truth.

The Holy Spirit will never Reveal Opposing “truth.”

When we can’t understand the Church’s Teaching we must reconcile ourselves with our limitations and not just start a new school of thought (religion).

In the “new world” liberalism has entered not only the vernacular but the psyche of man… bending and twisting in his being until objectivity is all but fully displaced… we must be careful not to follow the world… even when we do not see clearly; the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself are embedded in the Church’s Fibers:
18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
(St. Matthew 16:18-19)
This is Divine Delegation of Authority, not just permission to “Confess sins.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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