Assumption not celebrated at my parish?!

[ProVobis]

According to the Ecclesia Dei, the Holy Days are to be held in common. If the obligation is removed for the O.F., it is removed for the E.F.

True, though I thought it was interesting St. John Cantius offered 3 EF Masses (one on Friday night) for the Assumption feast and none in the OF. On Sundays it is split.

 

[Brendan]

The readings were usccb.org/bible/readings/081615.cfm
Sat and Sunday.

The EF has a different, 1 year cycle

Here are the readings for Aug 15 (all Masses said on Aug 15, every year)

ususantiquior.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/propers-for-feast-of-the-assumption-of-the-blessed-virgin-mary-extraordinary-form.pdf

The Epistle is
Book of Judith 13:22-25; 15. 10 ( Judith is received in Jerusalem after cutting off the head of Holophernes)

The Gradual is
Ps. #44:11, 12, 14

And the Gospel is
Luke 1: 41-50 (The Visitation) .

 

[InThePew]

When two solemnities run into each other, the order of preference is determined by the Table of Liturgical Days on which Sundays of Ordinary Time actually rank comparatively low. So when, as here, the Assumption (or another solemnity, or a feast of the Lord) runs back to back with a Sunday, the Solemnity of the Assumption takes precedence over the OT Sunday since the former outranks the latter in the calendar. This means that what would usually be Saturday vigil masses for the Sunday are instead replaced by mass of the solemnity (which does however still fulfill the Sunday obligation). PrayTell blog has a fuller explanation of this.

What I would be interested to know though is how many places transferred the Solemnity of the Assumption to the Sunday?

 

[JWH123]

The Vigil Mass for the Assumption was on Friday night and there was also a Saturday morning Mass for the Feast as well. Any Saturday evening Mass would be the Vigil for Sunday.

 

[ProVobis]

The Vigil Mass for the Assumption was on Friday night and there was also a Saturday morning Mass for the Feast as well. Any Saturday evening Mass would be the Vigil for Sunday.

That’s interesting. Maybe I’m not as knowledgeable as I thought, but aren’t only obligatory Holy Days allowed the prior day’s vespers to fill that obligation? What would be the point then of having a “Vigil” Mass (though I disagree with the term) for the Assumption?

I know St. John Cantius had one in the EF but that’s another philosophy.

 

[JWH123]

That’s interesting. Maybe I’m not as knowledgeable as I thought, but aren’t only obligatory Holy Days allowed the prior day’s vespers to fill that obligation? What would be the point then of having a “Vigil” Mass (though I disagree with the term) for the Assumption?

I know St. John Cantius had one in the EF but that’s another philosophy.

This was at a church which has an evening daily mass every weekday. Instead of the Friday daily mass, their mass on Friday night was the Vigil for the Assumption. (By the way, the Vigil for the Assumption has its own readings and those readings are contained in the missal so having a vigil mass is definitely allowed.)

By the way, earlier this summer, this particular church celebrated the vigil of the Solemnity of St. John the Baptist the night prior to the feast day, and this is not ever a Holy Day of Obligation (though it is one of only 3 birthdays celebrated as Feast days by the Church–the other two being Jesus’ birthday, December 25 obviously, and the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary on September 8).

 

[ProVobis]

This was at a church which has an evening daily mass every weekday. Instead of the Friday daily mass, their mass on Friday night was the Vigil for the Assumption. (By the way, the Vigil for the Assumption has its own readings and those readings are contained in the missal so having a vigil mass is definitely allowed.)

By the way, earlier this summer, this particular church celebrated the vigil of the Solemnity of St. John the Baptist the night prior to the feast day, and this is not ever a Holy Day of Obligation (though it is one of only 3 birthdays celebrated as Feast days by the Church–the other two being Jesus’ birthday, December 25 obviously, and the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary on September 8).

Sorry. After I thought about the situation at St. John Cantius and their apparent permission to have the EF readings on the day before, I deleted my post. I see where there could be Assumption readings on the Friday vespers before for the OF as well, even though the obligation to attend on Saturday has been removed, at least in the U.S.

 

[GoGoDiego]

As you all know, yesterday (August 15th) was the Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Mother. We went to Saturday evening mass at my parish last night, and the Assumption was not celebrated! It was the vigil mass for the 20th Sunday of Ordinary Time, like any normal Saturday. The Assumption wasn’t even mentioned: there were green vestments, no Marian hymns, no Magnificat, no procession, nothing. Now, I know that in the USA if a holy day of obligation falls on a Saturday or Monday it can be transferred to Sunday, but doesn’t that mean if the Assumption were celebrated today (August 16th, and I don’t know if it was), wouldn’t yesterday have been the vigil of the Assumption anyway? Am I wrong on this or did my parish drop the ball? Thanks everyone.

In accordance with the table of precedence:
I
…
3. Solemnities of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and saints listed in the General Calendar. All Souls.
…

II.
…
6. Sundays of the Christmas season and Sundays in Ordinary Time.
…

Thus, the liturgy celebrated on the Evening of August 15 should be that of the Assumption, not of the 20th Sunday, since it takes precedence over a usual Sunday in OT. The mandate if August 15 falls on a Sat. or Mon. is that the precept to attend Mass is abrogated, not transferred to the following Sunday

 

[Elizium23]

In accordance with the table of precedence:
I
…
3. Solemnities of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and saints listed in the General Calendar. All Souls.
…

II.
…
6. Sundays of the Christmas season and Sundays in Ordinary Time.
…

Thus, the liturgy celebrated on the Evening of August 15 should be that of the Assumption, not of the 20th Sunday, since it takes precedence over a usual Sunday in OT. The mandate if August 15 falls on a Sat. or Mon. is that the precept to attend Mass is abrogated, not transferred to the following Sunday

The table of precedence describes what happens when celebrations fall on the same day, but last week the Assumption was on a Saturday. The vigil of another solemnity always overrides the evening of the current day, which is why all parishes rightly celebrated the 20th Sunday on Saturday evening.

 

[Vico]

The table of precedence describes what happens when celebrations fall on the same day, but last week the Assumption was on a Saturday. The vigil of another solemnity always overrides the evening of the current day, which is why all parishes rightly celebrated the 20th Sunday on Saturday evening.

I think you mean as in the Liturgical Norms, observance of Solemnities begin with the Evening Prayer I of the preceding day, So these two solemnities of the Assumption and of Sunday are celebrated from E.P. I Friday for the Assumption and from E.P. I for Sunday:3. Each day is made holy through the liturgical celebrations of the people of God, especially through the eucharistic sacrifice and the divine office. The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.
11. Solemnities are counted as the principal days in the calendar and their observance begins with Evening Prayer I of the preceding day. Some also have their own vigil Mass for use when Mass is celebrated in the evening of the preceding day.

 

[twf]

Not exactly…Next year it falls on a Monday. (leap year)

This is what our Archdiocese put out as an explanation:

To: All Priests, Deacons and Directors of Liturgy
From: Office for Divine Worship

The Solemnity of The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary falls on Saturday, August 15, 2015, and on Monday, August 15, 2016. Neither of these Solemnities are holy days of obligation in the USA.

While the Solemnity is not celebrated as a holy day of obligation, it remains a solemnity. This means that ritual masses such as Nuptial Masses, Masses for Various Needs, and Votive Masses are not permitted. However, a wedding or confirmation may occur at Mass on August 15. In these cases, the formulary for the Assumption is used. When either the Rite of Marriage or the Rite of Confirmation is added, one of the readings from the marriage or confirmation Mass options may be used in place of one of the Assumption readings. Please check the Rite of Marriage, Choice of Rite, no. 11 for more information.

Masses for the Dead are permitted on August 15th because the Solemnity is not celebrated as a holy day of obligation.

Evening Prayer II of the Solemnity and Night Prayer II are used on Saturday evening instead of the Sunday schemas. Night Prayer II closes with the final anthem Ave, Regina cælorum.

Exactly. The Assumption takes precedence over a Sunday in Ordinary time. Had August 15 been a Sunday, the Assumption would have been celebrated and not the Sunday in Ordinary Time. Thus it seems very odd to me that so many parishes (including my local parish) celebrated the Sunday mass on Saturday night. As I understand it, the Assumption should have been celebrated (though it would still have fulfilled one’s Sunday obligation).

 

[twf]

The table of precedence describes what happens when celebrations fall on the same day, but last week the Assumption was on a Saturday. The vigil of another solemnity always overrides the evening of the current day, which is why all parishes rightly celebrated the 20th Sunday on Saturday evening.

Not always. A typical Sunday takes precedence over a typical Saturday, thus normally Saturday night is the beginning of liturgical Sunday. Usually liturgical Sunday begins with Evening Prayer I (Vespers) prayed Saturday night. As pointed out in this thread, Evening Prayer II for the Assumption took precedence over Evening Prayer I for the Sunday…thus Saturday evening was still liturgically the feast of the Assumption.

 

[Elizium23]

As pointed out in this thread, Evening Prayer II for the Assumption took precedence over Evening Prayer I for the Sunday…thus Saturday evening was still liturgically the feast of the Assumption.

It has been? Where? It seems that Vico agrees with me, and the “table of precedence” only applies to feasts that also fall on Sunday, not on Saturday or Monday. Why would Assumption’s Vespers take precedence over Sunday’s?

 

[Vico]

Liturgical Norms3. Each day is made holy through the liturgical celebrations of the people of God, especially through the eucharistic sacrifice and the divine office.
The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.

1. If the same day were to call for celebration of evening prayer of that day’s office and evening prayer I of the following day, evening prayer of the day with the higher rank in the Table of Liturgical Days takes precedence; in cases of equal rank, evening prayer of the actual day takes precedence.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWLITYR.HTM

 

[twf]

It has been? Where? It seems that Vico agrees with me, and the “table of precedence” only applies to feasts that also fall on Sunday, not on Saturday or Monday. Why would Assumption’s Vespers take precedence over Sunday’s?

Vico’s quote in the above post suggests that the Vespers for the Assumption should be said, and thus by the same logic, masses celebrated that Saturday night should have been for the Assumption. The Assumption is a greater day, liturgically speaking, than a Sunday in Ordinary time. It is not fitting to “cut short” the greater feast of the Assumption (which includes its own proper Evening Prayer II) in favor of the lesser Sunday.
While not an authority by any means, this is apparently the interpretation of DivineOffice.org. I use ther app and Evening Prayer II for the Assumption appeared for Saturday evening. Evening Prayer I for Sunday was simply abrogated.

 

[twf]

Vico’s quote in the above post suggests that the Vespers for the Assumption should be said, and thus by the same logic, masses celebrated that Saturday night should have been for the Assumption. The Assumption is a greater day, liturgically speaking, than a Sunday in Ordinary time. It is not fitting to “cut short” the greater feast of the Assumption (which includes its own proper Evening Prayer II) in favor of the lesser Sunday.
While not an authority by any means, this is apparently the interpretation of DivineOffice.org. I use ther app and Evening Prayer II for the Assumption appeared for Saturday evening. Evening Prayer I for Sunday was simply abrogated.

Could a priest possibly clarify the confusion on this issue?

 

[Vico]

Could a priest possibly clarify the confusion on this issue?

Not a priest, but from:

I. The Diocese of Des Moines:

August 15, 2015 (Saturday): Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
Not a Holy Day of Obligation in 2015
Friday, August 14, 2015

•  The Vigil Mass for the Solemnity may be celebrated this evening either before or after Evening Prayer I of the Solemnity.

dmdiocese.org/calendar-notes.cfm

*II. And From *
The Clustered Parishes of Sacred Heart,Yale & Our Lady of Mt Carmel,Emmett

August 6 at 9:01am ·Feast of the Assumption, August 15, 2015
The Office for Christian Worship has been receiving calls asking whether Mass on the evening of August 15th is Mass for the Feast of the Assumption or Mass for 20th Sunday in Ordinary Time.
According to the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar, #61, the solemnity of the Assumption begins with Evening Prayer I on Friday, August 14th and ends with Evening Prayer II on August 15th. Evening Prayer of the Solemnity takes precedence over Evening Prayer I of the 20th Sunday in Ordinary Time.
If Eucharist is celebrated on Friday, August 14th the Mass should be that of the vigil for the solemnity of the Assumption. If Mass is celebrated on Saturday evening, August 15th, the Mass should be that of the 20th Sunday in Ordinary Time

 

[FrDavid96]

Could a priest possibly clarify the confusion on this issue?

Sure.

The Solemnity of the Assumption does take precedence over the 20th Sunday of Ordinary Time. So the liturgical day of the Assumption begins (began) on Friday evening and ran until midnight Saturday night.

Strictly following the calendar, all Masses on Saturday evening should have been Masses for the Solemnity of the Assumption.

However, in 1974 the Holy See addressed the issue that there can be confusion (exactly the sort that’s being expressed in this thread). The response was that there should be a pastoral approach. The conclusion was that even though the calendar requires that the Solemnity replace the Sunday, a certain flexibility is allowed. See the last sentence of the text I’m about to quote.

Here’s the full text:

source: notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/

The Instruction Eucharisticum mysterium, n. 28 established: « Where permission has been granted by the Apostolic See to fulfill the Sunday obligation on the evening of the preceding Saturday … the Mass should be celebrated as assigned in the calendar for that Sunday, including the homily and the prayer of the faithful.

The same must be said of a Mass which, for the same reason, is permitted to be celebrated on the evening of the day before a holy day of obligation in a particular place ».

This is the general norm. A doubt, however, has arisen when a certain obligatory solemnity occurs on a Saturday or a Monday. For on the evening of the first feast day (Saturday or Sunday) there is an overlap of liturgical days because « the celebration of Sunday and of solemnities begins already in the evening of the proceeding day » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 3), and in the same celebration some of the faithful come to satisfy the precept pertaining to the current day and others that which pertains to the following day. Thus, for example, it can happen that the on the evening of the Fourth Sunday of Advent, when this falls on December 24, there would be at the same time the evening Mass of the Sunday and of the Vigil of the Nativity of the Lord. In the same way, when the Nativity of the Lord falls on Saturday, there is on that evening there occurs an overlap between the Mass of the Nativity and the anticipated Mass of the Holy Family.

This and similar cases cannot be solved by the universal norms, because there exist different pastoral necessities and customs of the faithful.

For that reason the following indications can be given:

1. The general principle for the celebration of the Mass of a holy day of obligation anticipated on the evening of the preceding day is that which is found in n. 28 of the instruction Eucharisticum mysterium.
2. In the case of an overlap between a Sunday and a Solemnity, the integrity of the celebration of the whole liturgical day can generally be better preserved by applying to the celebration of the evening Mass what is established for Vespers, namely: « If on the same day the Vespers of the current Office and Vespers I of the following day are to be celebrated, the Vespers of the celebration placed higher on the table of liturgical days takes precedence; and in case of equal rank, the vespers of the current day takes precedence » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 61).
3. On the vigil of solemnities for which a particular vigil Mass exists (Nativity of the Lord, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, Sts. Peter and Paul, the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary), this should be said even if it falls on a Sunday.
4. Attentive circumstances of a pastoral nature, the practice to follow at the diocesan level should be indicated by the local Ordinary at the beginning of the year in the proper liturgical Calendar, even, if the case warrants, by derogating from what was said above when, for pastoral reasons, the celebration of one or the other Mass seems preferable.

The underlining in that last sentence is my own.

The practical application is that even though it might derogate from the rules of the calendar, it is permitted to celebrate the Mass of 20th Sunday on Saturday evening even though the norms say that it should be the Mass of the Assumption.

Bottom line: the priest should follow the liturgical calendar published by the diocese.

 

[twf]

Sure.

The Solemnity of the Assumption does take precedence over the 20th Sunday of Ordinary Time. So the liturgical day of the Assumption begins (began) on Friday evening and ran until midnight Saturday night.

Strictly following the calendar, all Masses on Saturday evening should have been Masses for the Solemnity of the Assumption.

However, in 1974 the Holy See addressed the issue that there can be confusion (exactly the sort that’s being expressed in this thread). The response was that there should be a pastoral approach. The conclusion was that even though the calendar requires that the Solemnity replace the Sunday, a certain flexibility is allowed. See the last sentence of the text I’m about to quote.

Here’s the full text:

source: notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/

The Instruction Eucharisticum mysterium, n. 28 established: « Where permission has been granted by the Apostolic See to fulfill the Sunday obligation on the evening of the preceding Saturday … the Mass should be celebrated as assigned in the calendar for that Sunday, including the homily and the prayer of the faithful.

The same must be said of a Mass which, for the same reason, is permitted to be celebrated on the evening of the day before a holy day of obligation in a particular place ».

This is the general norm. A doubt, however, has arisen when a certain obligatory solemnity occurs on a Saturday or a Monday. For on the evening of the first feast day (Saturday or Sunday) there is an overlap of liturgical days because « the celebration of Sunday and of solemnities begins already in the evening of the proceeding day » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 3), and in the same celebration some of the faithful come to satisfy the precept pertaining to the current day and others that which pertains to the following day. Thus, for example, it can happen that the on the evening of the Fourth Sunday of Advent, when this falls on December 24, there would be at the same time the evening Mass of the Sunday and of the Vigil of the Nativity of the Lord. In the same way, when the Nativity of the Lord falls on Saturday, there is on that evening there occurs an overlap between the Mass of the Nativity and the anticipated Mass of the Holy Family.

This and similar cases cannot be solved by the universal norms, because there exist different pastoral necessities and customs of the faithful.

For that reason the following indications can be given:

1. The general principle for the celebration of the Mass of a holy day of obligation anticipated on the evening of the preceding day is that which is found in n. 28 of the instruction Eucharisticum mysterium.
2. In the case of an overlap between a Sunday and a Solemnity, the integrity of the celebration of the whole liturgical day can generally be better preserved by applying to the celebration of the evening Mass what is established for Vespers, namely: « If on the same day the Vespers of the current Office and Vespers I of the following day are to be celebrated, the Vespers of the celebration placed higher on the table of liturgical days takes precedence; and in case of equal rank, the vespers of the current day takes precedence » (cf. Normae universales de anno liturgico et de calendario, n. 61).
3. On the vigil of solemnities for which a particular vigil Mass exists (Nativity of the Lord, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, Sts. Peter and Paul, the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary), this should be said even if it falls on a Sunday.
4. Attentive circumstances of a pastoral nature, the practice to follow at the diocesan level should be indicated by the local Ordinary at the beginning of the year in the proper liturgical Calendar, even, if the case warrants, by derogating from what was said above when, for pastoral reasons, the celebration of one or the other Mass seems preferable.

The underlining in that last sentence is my own.

The practical application is that even though it might derogate from the rules of the calendar, it is permitted to celebrate the Mass of 20th Sunday on Saturday evening even though the norms say that it should be the Mass of the Assumption.

Bottom line: the priest should follow the liturgical calendar published by the diocese.

Thanks Father. That clears it up. Even if licit for pastoral reasons it still feels wrong to me to be celebrating the Sunday mass rather than the Assumption at 4:30 pm on August 15.