Assumption of Mary--what about Enoch and Elijah?

[jlhargus]

Originally Posted by jlhargus
JL: Then it should be easy for you to post those remarks of mine, “bearing false witness”, you wont of course, because you can’t.

Heb 4:13 “And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.”

JL: So what you are really telling us, with Hb4:13 ONCE SAVED, one can lose thier salvation? I’ll remind you of this contradiction from time to time.

It should be easy for you to post those remarks of mine, “bearing false witness”, you wont of course, because you can’t.

 

[atmmgraves]

Moondweller:

My friend, you seem to be a believer sincerely looking for the truth. Allow me assist you in understanding Catholicism.

Christ himself started the Catholic Church in 33 A.D. As the Church was founded by Christ, it cannot err. The Catholic Church has lasted 2000 years. As it was founded by Christ himself, it cannot die. Christ said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. They will not, and cannot, despite untold attacks from within and without. No other human institution has lasted as long as the Catholic Church, and that is due, simply, to Christ.

We are allowed to have opinions on Scripture, ideas about what is stated, about everything that is written about history and that which is contained within the Bible. The bottom line is that - again - the Church was founded by, is protected by, and teaches all of mankind for Christ. The Catholic Church cannot teach in error. If someone believes that a Church teaching is wrong, or they do not agree with a doctrine, dogma, practice, or belief, they should, quite simply, cease to call themselves Catholic. It’s really that simple.

Let us, for a moment, touch on Protestantism.

The number one problem with Protestantism is that when one begins to believe something to be wrong within a Protestant church, said person will leave the congregation and start his/her own church. This is why there are now tens of thousands of Protestant denominations, growing daily, with each clamoring and claiming to know the truth.

This is a serious issue which all Christians should seriously consider and pray over. After all, who among Protestants is to say what the Bible means? On whose authority does a Protestant rely? The Pentecostal down the street, who believes differently than you, different from the Lutheran, differently from the Anglican (a movement formed because a king could not get an annulment, for goodness sake), differently from the 7th Day Adventist, different from the “non-denominational”, different from the…? You get the point (hopefully). It doesn’t end, and never will.

God is not the author of this confusion, sir. Protestants often argue that Catholics allow a man to come between them and God when they confess to a priest. What malarkey. Protestants - all Protestants - have done so. Luther, Calvin. Wesley, on and on. Each with their own “Biblical teaching.”

Quite simply, Protestantism can be boiled down to one’s own, singular, individual interpretation of the text, which is why the Protestant reformation continues unabated to this day. The Original Reformers have been reformed, and reformed, and reformed, and will always be reformed. Indeed, one could argue that the truest form of Protestantism is one man, alone with a Bible, understanding it as he sees fit, and believing what he interprets (if he can read, comprehend, etc) as the True Word - all others false. And each pastor their own pope, presiding over their own fiefdom.

Christ gave humanity a teacher - the Catholic Church. Eventually, most will realize this (as I hope you do) and will come home.

Moondweller, I sincerely wish you well in your search for the truth.

 

[moondweller]

But wait a second. Let’s say you are a new Christian who has done some reading in the Bible and/or listened to people preach the gospel, and you want to be an obedient Christian. What’s the first thing an obedient Christian should do? Get baptized, right? So where will you go to get baptized? To a church, right?

Not necessarily.

So I don’t think the notion of wanting a place to belong is utterly foreign to the Christian mind. Christians are supposed to belong to a church, right? (And the next logical question is, “Which church?”)

So you’re looking for a church in which to get baptized and attend regularly? Doctrine is of no real concern?

No, I do long for that simplicity. But I’m not at all certain that the simplicity I long for is the reality that’s available.

Define the “simplicity” you “long” for.

 

[moondweller]

Actually, only the consequence of eternal damnation is off the table. Temporal consequences, up to and including death, are still on the table, and I think the idea of a loss of “eternal reward” or “treasure in heaven” is still on the table, too.

–Mike

We live out our lives under this Biblical principle:Rom 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"And in this Divinely revealed reality:1 John 2:1-2 “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for {those of} the whole world.”

 

[moondweller]

Then it should be easy for you to post those remarks of mine, “bearing false witness”, you wont of course, because you can’t.

I’m not the one you answer to, JL.

JL: So what you are really telling us, with Hb4:13 ONCE SAVED, one can lose thier salvation? I’ll remind you of this contradiction from time to time.

What does Heb. 4:13 have to do with losing salvation?

 

[moondweller]

Moondweller:

My friend, you seem to be a believer sincerely looking for the truth.

You got that from my posts?

Moondweller, I sincerely wish you well in your search for the truth.

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."I’ve found the Truth and I’ve believed in Him. I’m not looking, I’m enjoying.:extrahappy:

 

[atmmgraves]

You got that from my posts?John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."I’ve found the Truth and I’ve believed in Him. I’m not looking, I’m enjoying.:extrahappy:

Great! I’m truly and sincerely glad for you. And you obviously aren’t interested in learning about Catholicism. If you were you would be interested in how Christ gave us the Catholic Church to properly teach His way, His Truth, and His life. So…in that case…why are you here…?

 

[cikoo]

Enoch and Elijah were men with natures like ours… they believed God and never tasted death. Is immortality still…

---

good luck
www.dbx.com.cn

 

[mpartyka]

So where will you go to get baptized? To a church, right?

Well, maybe you wouldn’t have to go to a church specifically, but you would have to go to someone who’s already a Christian, right? Nowhere in the Bible do I see anyone baptizing himself/herself. And unless you’re somebody whom God has called to either go off and evangelize the nations or go live in a cave somewhere, you’re supposed to find yourself believers with whom to fellowship, right?

So you’re looking for a church in which to get baptized and attend regularly? Doctrine is of no real concern?

I’ve already been baptized, and finding a church that I can attend regularly is no problem – I’m sure there are plenty of nondenominationals that’ll take me. Of course doctrine is a concern – I’m not about to attend a church that I honestly believe is incorrect in its teachings. But at this point that might well be every church or denomination out there, so maybe I’m just looking for the least imperfect fit for me.

Define the “simplicity” you “long” for.

For starters, being able to take the Bible at face value without any need for critical thought over and above what’s necessary to understand the plain meaning of the text. Because if I could do that, then I think I could find a Bible church or something that purports to understand the Bible the same way, and then, with a couple other things (e.g., a weekly Lord’s Supper – can’t believe this isn’t required at all Protestant churches, given it’s one of Jesus’ two explicit ordinances) and a little rationalization here and there, I might feel at home. But in a way, I kind of look at this according to what C.S. Lewis said: “If you look for truth, you will find comfort. If you look for comfort, you will find neither comfort nor truth.” I’ve looked for truth and found no comfort. Maybe what I need is more truth, but right now a little “rest stop” of comfort would be nice…

–Mike

 

[atmmgraves]

Well, maybe you wouldn’t have to go to a church specifically, but you would have to go to someone who’s already a Christian, right? Nowhere in the Bible do I see anyone baptizing himself/herself. And unless you’re somebody whom God has called to either go off and evangelize the nations or go live in a cave somewhere, you’re supposed to find yourself believers with whom to fellowship, right?

I’ve already been baptized, and finding a church that I can attend regularly is no problem – I’m sure there are plenty of nondenominationals that’ll take me. Of course doctrine is a concern – I’m not about to attend a church that I honestly believe is incorrect in its teachings. But at this point that might well be every church or denomination out there, so maybe I’m just looking for the least imperfect fit for me.

For starters, being able to take the Bible at face value without any need for critical thought over and above what’s necessary to understand the plain meaning of the text. Because if I could do that, then I think I could find a Bible church or something that purports to understand the Bible the same way, and then, with a couple other things (e.g., a weekly Lord’s Supper – can’t believe this isn’t required at all Protestant churches, given it’s one of Jesus’ two explicit ordinances) and a little rationalization here and there, I might feel at home. But in a way, I kind of look at this according to what C.S. Lewis said: “If you look for truth, you will find comfort. If you look for comfort, you will find neither comfort nor truth.” I’ve looked for truth and found no comfort. Maybe what I need is more truth, but right now a little “rest stop” of comfort would be nice…

–Mike

Mike:

I wanted to engage you previously, to discuss what you are searching for. I notice in your post that you would like a weekly Lord’s supper. You are looking for the plain meaning of the text (the Bible). I must tell you that as a recent convert to the Catholic Church, I have found both. The entire mass is Biblical, from the readings, to the responsorial psalm, to the Lord’s Prayer, to the Eucharist, to the Nicene Creed, etc. To walk into a Catholic Church and pray contemplatively and reverently in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, to praying together with the congregation, in turn praying together and learning from scripture along with a billion Catholics worldwide is something truly remarkable and spectacular.

It appears to me that you are searching, as I was for over 30 years. I always felt something different when I went into a Catholic Church. Something was at work in there, and now I understand it. It is not pastor personality, it is not a fad. It is the presence of Christ. That, and the Church being what it has been since the time of Christ.

I truly hope that you find what you are looking for, but as I stated before, I believe what you are looking for is right here.

Have you any interest in RCIA? You could try that and see what you think (if you haven’t already).

God speed.

 

[moondweller]

Well, maybe you wouldn’t have to go to a church specifically, but you would have to go to someone who’s already a Christian, right?

After one has believed in Christ. Have you?

Nowhere in the Bible do I see anyone baptizing himself/herself. And unless you’re somebody whom God has called to either go off and evangelize the nations or go live in a cave somewhere, you’re supposed to find yourself believers with whom to fellowship, right?

Yes. But that fellowship is not restricted to just “going to church.”

I’ve already been baptized, and finding a church that I can attend regularly is no problem – I’m sure there are plenty of nondenominationals that’ll take me. Of course doctrine is a concern – I’m not about to attend a church that I honestly believe is incorrect in its teachings. But at this point that might well be every church or denomination out there, so maybe I’m just looking for the least imperfect fit for me.

Well, you know what they say if you find the “perfect” church.

For starters, being able to take the Bible at face value without any need for critical thought over and above what’s necessary to understand the plain meaning of the text. Because if I could do that, then I think I could find a Bible church or something that purports to understand the Bible the same way,

That’s called in hermeneutics a literal, grammatical, historical interpretation of the Bible. It’s to what I adhere.

and then, with a couple other things (e.g., a weekly Lord’s Supper – can’t believe this isn’t required at all Protestant churches, given it’s one of Jesus’ two explicit ordinances) and a little rationalization here and there, I might feel at home.

That can always be suggested.

But in a way, I kind of look at this according to what C.S. Lewis said: “If you look for truth, you will find comfort. If you look for comfort, you will find neither comfort nor truth.” I’ve looked for truth and found no comfort. Maybe what I need is more truth, but right now a little “rest stop” of comfort would be nice…

I don’t think a church is where one finds rest. Teaching and fellowship, yes but “rest” is found elsewhere:Matt 11:28-30 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."No church can replace Christ.

 

[Tomster]

After one has believed in Christ. Have you?Yes. But that fellowship is not restricted to just "going to church."Well, you know what they say if you find the “perfect” church.That’s called in hermeneutics a literal, grammatical, historical interpretation of the Bible. It’s to what I adhere.That can always be suggested.I don’t think a church is where one finds rest. Teaching and fellowship, yes but “rest” is found elsewhere:Matt 11:28-30 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."No church can replace Christ.

You mean the Church, the pillar and ground of truth?
Maybe your preacher hasn’t gotten to that part of the Bible yet.

 

[moondweller]

You mean the Church, the pillar and ground of truth?
Maybe your preacher hasn’t gotten to that part of the Bible yet.

Sure, 1 Tim. 3:15, where Paul mentions how to conduct one’s self in “the household of God,” which is the “church of the living God.” Now search high and low in the Scriptures and you’ll never find a name for that “household,” that “church” which supports the truth but is not, itself, the truth. Any “church” (local fellowship) that claims to be the truth no longer supports the Truth.

 

[jlhargus]

Sure, 1 Tim. 3:15, where Paul mentions how to conduct one’s self in “the household of God,” which is the “church of the living God.” Now search high and low in the Scriptures and you’ll never find a name for that “household,” that “church” which supports the truth but is not, itself, the truth. Any “church” (local fellowship) that claims to be the truth no longer supports the Truth.

JL: But you find clear EVIDENCE, Mt16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

As a Catholic convert from a non-denominational fundamentalist Bible Church, this is my Scriptural reasons and understanding for becoming a member of the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH the living VISIBLE FELLOWSHIP and body, of the PRESENTS of Christ on earth. That Church Christ is building from living stones with Peter as the visible ROCK of faith unity.

What the group gathered and SENT by Christ was called at any given time or place does not mater in the lest. What matters is continuity with that One SENT Fellowship. Scripture indicates, to be a valid minister one must be SENT, [Rm 10:14 …how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 how shall they preach EXCEPT THEY BE SENT?

[Lk 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that HE went out into a mountain to pray, and CONTINUED ALL NIGHT IN PRAYER to God. 13 And when it was day, **he called unto him his disciples: and OF THEM HE CHOSE TWELVE, whom also he NAMED APOSTLES;]

JN 17:18 As thou hast SENT ME into the world, even so have I ALSO SENT THEM into the world. 19 And for their sakes I SANCTIFY MYSELF, THAT THEY ALSO MIGHT BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE TRUTH. 20 NEITHER PRAY I FOR THESE ALONE, but FOR THEM ALSO WHICH shall BELIEVE ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD; 21 THAT THEY all may BE ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that THOU hast SENT ME.

Christ chose, prayed for and SENT one specific VISIBLE group, the Apostles Fellowship, whom he sanctified through the truth. Hearing their word and being ONE in fellowship, with THEM, the world may believe the Father sent him. I don’t think Christ meant, he would only be with that fellowship and it would only be one, just while the apostles were alive, but to the end of the world.

Mt28:16 Then THE ELEVEN disciples WENT away into Galilee, INTO A MOUNTAIN where JESUS had APPOINTED them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And JESUS came and SPAKE UNTO THEM, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 GO ye therefore, and **TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING ** them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS whatsoever I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, even UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. Amen.

The great commission to the Church, the apostles fellowship. Christ to whom all power in heaven and earth is given, sent with his authority the apostles to TEACH ALL to observe what he taught. They were to go to ALL nations (universal, catholic). Only the apostles were sent to teach all nations, with the authority of Christ. Christ promised to be with them TILL THE END of the world. Those individuals would not be around till the end and Christ knew that. But their SENT successors in the Apostolic Fellowship would, by passing on their authority to teach, sanctify and rule by laying on of hands from bishop to bishop, in an unbroken line, till the end.

DN 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGODM which shall never be destroyed and THE KINGDOM shall not be left to other people but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and IT SHALL STAND FOR EVER,

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST and the Lord GOD SHALL GIVE unto HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID 33 And HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER and OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END.

[Lk22:29 And I APPOINT unto YOU A KINGDOM, AS MY FATHER hath APPOINTED unto ME; 30 THAT YE MAY EAT AND DRINK AT MY TABLE IN MY KINGDOM, and SIT ON THRONES JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL. 31 And THE LORD SAID, Simon, SIMON, behold, SATAN HATH DESIRED TO HAVE YOU, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU AS WHEAT: 32 But I HAVE PRAYED FOR **THEE, that THY FAITH FAIL NOT: and WHEN thou art CONVERTED, STRENGTHEN THY BRETHREN.

The apostles sit on thrones judging, they also eat and drink at Christ’s table in his kingdom. Catholics are gathered in union with our bishops around the table of the Lord where we eat and drink at every mass.

When Peter is converted HIS FAITH WILL NEVER FAIL, he is to STRENGTHEN ALL THE BRETHREN as Universal Pastor. Christ said Satan wanted to sift all the apostles (you plural) as wheat, but Christ prayed that only (you singular) Peter’s faith fail not, this was said in the presents of the other apostles. Christ promised Peter’s faith alone would not fail, implying all must be in union and agree with the faith of Peter. Those not in union with Peter’s faith even though they have apostolic secession can teach error. My Bishop or any number of Bishops can teach error if not in union and agreement, with the successor of Peter. CONTINUED:

 

[jlhargus]

JN 21:14-17 Jesus asked Peter three times, “do you love me more than these” [THESE, would be the other apostles. After being asked three times and replying three times, “yes”. Christ said to Peter, the first time, “feed MY lambs”, the second time, “feed MY sheep”, the third time, “feed MY sheep”. Peter is to feed ALL the sheep in Christ’s flock, not some, but ALL the sheep Christ has purchased with his blood.

[Acts2:41 Then THEY THAT gladly RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED: AND the same day there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED stedfastly IN THE APOSTLES’ **DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and in BREADKING OF BREAD, and in PRAYERS.] Breaking of Bread is another term for mass.

[1Cor1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. 10 Now I BESEECH YOU, BRETHREN, BY the name of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, that ye all SPEAK THE SAME THING, AND that there be NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; but that ye BE PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER in the SAME MIND and IN THE SAME JUDGMENT.] One fellowship, one faith, one baptism, one Lord and God of all no matter where it is located in the world. Lk24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I SEND THE PROMISE OF MY FATHER: but TARRY ye IN the city of JERUSALEM, UNTIL YE BE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH. Jn14:26 But the Comforter, which is THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATSOEVER I HAVE SAID UNTO YOU. Jn16:13 Howbeit when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, IS COME, he WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Christ is speaking to the Apostolic Fellowship, who will be endued with power from on high, by whom the Church will be guided into all truth and teach all things whatsoever Christ said, through the sacrament of Holy Orders, an unbroken line of successors, by laying on of hands, till the end of the world.

Apostolic succession thru the sacrament of Holy Orders, ordination, by laying of hands gives the GIFT of the Holy Spirit to enable an ordained minister to fulfill his mission. [2Tim1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou STIR UP THE GIFT OF GOD, which is IN THEE BY the PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS. 7 For GOD HATH NOT GIVEN US THE SPIRIT OF FEAR; **BUT OF POWER, and of love, and of a sound mind.] [Tm4:2 PREACH THE WORD; be instant in season, out of season; REPROVE, REBUKE, EXHORT with all long suffering and doctrine.]

Titus1:5 FOR THIS CAUSE LEFT I THEE IN CRETE, that THOU SHOULDEST SET IN ORDER the THINGS that are WANTING, AND ORDAIN ELDERS IN EVERY CITY, AS I had APOINTED THEE.

Titus1:7 For A BISHOP must be blameless, as THE STEWARD OF GOD; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 HOLDING FAST THE FAITHFUL WORD AS HE HATH BEEN TAUGHT, THAT he may be able BY SOUND DOCTRINE both to EXHORT and TO CONVINCE the gainsayers.

Titus1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore REBUKE THEM SHARPLY, THAT THEY MAY BE SOUND IN THE FAITH;

Titus2:1 But SPEAK thou the THINGS WHICH BECOME SOUND DOCTRINE: 2 THAT the aged MEN BE sober, grave, temperate, SOUND IN FAITH, in charity, in patience.

Titus2:15 THESE things SPEAK, and EXHORT, and REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY. Let no man despise thee.

Acts14:23 And WHEN THEY HAD ORDAINED them ELDERS IN EVERY CHURCH, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Acts20:28 TAKE HEED therefore unto yourselves, and TO ALL THE FLOCK, over the WHICH THE HOLY GHOST HATH MADE YOU OVERSEERS, TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD, which he hath PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

1 TIM 5:17 Let the elders that RULE well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the WORD AND DOCTRINE.

[1Tim4:13 Till I come, GIVE ATTENDANCE TO READING, to EXHORTATION, TO DOCTRINE. 14 NEGLECT NOT THE GIFT that is IN THEE, which was GIVEN thee by prophecy, WITH THE LAYING ON OF THE HANDS of the presbytery. 15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16 TAKE HEED UNTO THYSELF, and **UNTO THE DOCTRINE; CONTINUE IN THEM: for in DOING THIS thou SHALT both SAVE THYSELF, AND THEM THAT HEAR THEE.]

I cannot find a VALID minister in the New Covenant who was not ordained and SENT directly by Christ including Paul, or SENT by laying on of hands in the unbroken apostolic line, either by an apostle or one they ordained. [Except false teachers, who may even have been ordained by laying on of hands, but not SENT by the FELLOWSHIP. They GO OUT on their own authority, I have no doubt they used and thought scripture supported their theology.

[Acts15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard that CERTAIN which WENT OUT FROM US have troubled you with words SUBVERTING YOUR SOULS saying Ye must be circumcised and keep the law: to whom WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT] Jer23:21 I HAVE NOT SENT THESE PROPHETS, yet they ran: I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO THEM, yet they prophesied.] Those not sent are false teachers.] 1Jn4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God HEARTH US; he that is not of God heareth not US. HEREBY KNOW WE the spirit of TRUTH, AND the spirit of ERROR.]

 

[jlhargus]

CONTINUED:

US would be the Church. The Bishops of the world in union with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) make up the Magisterium (that teaching authority SENT by ChrisT. Mt28:16-20 GO TEACH ALL NATIONS I AM WITH YOU TILL THE END). Their duty is to teach, sanctify and govern. Teach the Word of God, faith and morals, what we must believe and moral standards. Sanctify by preaching the Word of God and administering the sacraments, govern the Church for good order,
[Jn17:21 THAT THEY ALL MAY BE **ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.]

The Catholic Church continues steadfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, in breaking of bread and in prayers, ACTS 2:42. The one fellowship Christ sent to teach all nations, all he commanded, Mt 28:20. He promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead them in all truth (not part but all) Jn 16:13. He that hears you hears me, LK 10:16, to those whom Christ send we must listen. If he neglect to hear the church treat him as a heathen, MT 18:17.

I do not rely on my understanding nor on that of any man, no matter how learned, who in the last analysis gives only his own opinion, although he could be right at times. I prefer the assurance of those Christ SENT to lead us in all truth, not hit and miss truth. To follow those, Christ has set over me, who have the gift of the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands in an unbroken line, to recall all Christ has taught. The Church to whom Christ promised the gates of hell shall never prevail against, Mt 16:18, the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth, 1 TM 3:14. [Eph3:7 Whereof I WAS MADE A MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THE GIFT of the grace OF GOD given unto me BY the effectual WORKING OF HIS POWER. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And **TO MAKE ALL MEN SEE what is THE FELLOWSHIP of THE MYSTERY, which from the beginning of the world hath been HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent THAT NOW unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places MIGHT BE KNOWN BY THE CHURCH the manifold wisdom of God,]

2Cor5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though GOD did BESEECH YOU BY US: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Two of the greatest brothers, Peter and Paul, went from Palestine to Rome, where both were martyred. The successor of Peter is the bishop of Rome, and holds the keys of the Davidic kingdom a type or foreshadowing of the regenerated and restored spiritual kingdom of Israel in the new covenant (Mt 19:28). Christ the Son of David is king in David’s line, who will build a house for God, (2Sam 7:12-14). Peter is the first minister (prime minister) [Isa22:19 I will drive you from your station 20 I will call my servant Eliakim 21 I will commit your government to his hand he shall be a father to the people of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay on his shoulder so he shall open and none shall shut he shall shut and none shall open] Eliakim will be the new Prime Minster and called father of Jerusalem, in the Davidic Kingdom, he will succeed Shebna.

So in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of David, of which Christ is now king, Peter is appointed Prime Minister and called father=pope in the new Jerusalem=Church. The keys indicate the holder has authority over the other royal ministers (or apostles) as they do not receive keys, also indicates the head office has successors. When the office is vacant it is filled by the King in David’s line, who is Christ, with another by giving of the keys. Jesus alluded to this passage when giving the keys to Peter, Mt 16.

Incidentally if Christ is King in David’s line, his mother, which all generations will call blessed, is Gebirah (Queen Mother) 1Kings 2:19. From Solomon the son of David, who built a house for God, there was an office of queen mother in the Dividic Kingdom, the type and foreshadowing of the regenerated spiritual Kingdom. The king Christ, the Son of David, is building a habitation for God of living stones. [Eph3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 **Unto him be glory IN THE CHURCH by Christ Jesus THROUGHOUT ALL AGES, world without end. Amen.] CONTINUED

 

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CONTINUED;

The Jerusalem Council sent a letter to Antioch, with it decision settling a doctrinal dispute, which said, [Acts15:28 For **it seemed good to the HOLY GHOST, and to US, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;] using their authority to bind and loose, Mt16:18. That magisterial teaching authority, SENT by Christ, speaks with the authority of Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit, and all Christians knew it. That’s why the decision was accepted with JOY and without dispute in Antioch, Acts15.

Paul even checked his teaching with that one fellowship. [Gal2:1 Then fourteen years after I WENT UP AGAIN TO JERUSALEM with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up BY REVELATION, and COMMUNICATED UNTO THEM that GOSPEL which I PREACH among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, LEST BY ANY MEANS I SHOULD run, or HAD RUN, IN VAIN.] Even though sent by Christ, Paul went by revealation to verify his teachings with the ONE Fellowship, to be sure he was not running in vain. Those SENT by Christ, to teach ALL NATIONS, ALL Christ commanded, till the END of the age, Mt28:16-20. The Apostolic Fellowship Christ promised the Holy Spirit would guide them into ALL TRUTH, Jn16:13. If individual Christians had the ability to be led into all truth, because they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we would all be one without disagreement. We can see that is not the case.

What did people do the first time the gospel was preached by Peter? Acts2:41 Then THEY THAT gladly RECEIVED HIS WORD were BAPTIZED: and the same day there WERE ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED steadfastly IN the APOSTLES’ DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and in BREAKING OF BREAD, and in PRAYERS. [Those that received his word were baptized. They were brought into the Church by baptism and CONTINUED steadfastly in the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Fellowship.]

1Cor 1:9 God is faithful you were called into THE FELLOWSHIP OF his Son JESUS CHRIST 10 I appeal to you BREATHREN by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that all of you AGREE that there be no dissensions among you that you BE UNITED in the same mind and THE SAME JUDGMENT. 1Jn 4:6 We are of God Whoever knows God LISTENS TO US and he who is not of God DOES NOT LISTEN TO US BY THIS WE KNOW the spirit of TRUTH and the spirit of ERROR [Therefore we do not listen to men, the spirit of error, to be taken in by false teachers and every wind of doctine men can devise through sola scriptura, that tradition of men made a doctrine of God around 1520 AD.]

[Mk 9:38 And JOHN answered him, SAYING, MASTER, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and HE FOLLOWETH NOT **US: and WE FORBAD HIM, because HE FOLLOWETH NOT US. 39 But JESUS SAID, FORBID HIM NOT: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against US is on OUR PART.] The Holy Spirit works in those separated denominations outside the Apostles Fellowship. Uniting them to the ONE fellowship in a spiritual way.