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PJM
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What are examples of assumptions that Catholics make?
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Della
Guest
I’m “assuming” (sorry I couldn’t resist 
) that you are referring to things about Sacred Scripture since your thread is in that forum. Yes?
Well, I assume, as a Catholic, that the Church knows what the heck it’s doing when it comes to interpreting the Bible since it wrote the NT, compiled the books of the Bible for liturgical use, and has preserved it, copied it, promoted it, used it, and blessed it down through the centuries. But hey, that’s just me.
) that you are referring to things about Sacred Scripture since your thread is in that forum. Yes?Well, I assume, as a Catholic, that the Church knows what the heck it’s doing when it comes to interpreting the Bible since it wrote the NT, compiled the books of the Bible for liturgical use, and has preserved it, copied it, promoted it, used it, and blessed it down through the centuries. But hey, that’s just me.
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COPLAND_3
Guest
One assumption that I see Catholics make that is not actually accurate is that Fundamentalists are so literal in their interpretations that they even take metaphors literally, which is not correct, being a former Fundamentalist myself.
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ChadS
Guest
I usually assume that Protestant exegesis of the scriptures is flawed in some way.
Sorry … but you asked.
ChadS
Sorry … but you asked.
ChadS
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jean8
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TheAtheist
Guest
By definition, they would also assume that the traditional rabbinical interpretations of passages within the Old Testament, esp. those related by certain prophets, are in fact flawed.
Whereas a Jewish scholar might see a reference to King David, a Catholic might see something prefiguring the coming of Jesus.
Whereas a Jewish scholar might see a reference to King David, a Catholic might see something prefiguring the coming of Jesus.
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mmmcounts
Guest
- The oft-quoted reference to “private interpretation” found in 1 Peter 1:20 has something to do with church authority. (This is an example of an erroneous assumption).
- The “ark of salvation” by which the world is saved from destruction- like in the days of Noah- is not Jesus, but the visible hierarchy of the Church of Rome.
- Protestants are assumed to do…well, a variety of things. (All) Protestants are assumed to be people who react to the venial/mortal dichotomy by denying any sort of gradient concerning the severity of sin. Catholics tend to portray Protestants as being unified “Free Grace Theology” people, which some do assent to, but others hold to Lordship Salvation (it’s in the signature). This is an example of a statement made with this assumption: “All Protestants believe you just have to pray a prayer and then you can go and do whatever you want. They basically encourage carnal Christianity. It’s like they don’t know anything about sanctification.” Generally, Catholics will either let this go unopposed or agree with it wholeheartedly.
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ChadS
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It’s an opinion based upon numerous examples.chad,
Is this your opinion or do you have an example?
jean
What is the pillar and foundation of truth? As a Protestant it was taught and assumed without question that it was the Bible (or at least most Protestants live their lives acting as if this is their belief even if it isn’t). However, the Bible says no such thing, the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (most Protestants have no ecclesiology that they could base this upon. The church they belong to deserves their assent in as far as that church teaches what they believe about the Bible, only to be left behind without a second thought if they deviate from what they think the Bible teaches).
What about baptism? Protestants are taught it is an outward sign of an inward change, but as far as the physical act of baptizing it is of no use and confers no spiritual benefits. Reading the Bible as a Catholic you see baptism in a whole new light. Baptism is necessary and is effectual, meaning it provides spiritual benefits in the remission of sins and the effects of original sin.
Those are just a few examples upon which my opinion is built.
ChadS
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
mmmcounts said:
The Eastern Church, is the Catholic Church, and they don’t make that assumption. Roman Catholics don’t believe that either. hmm. Maybe this is actually a Protestant assumption.
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PJM
Guest
How about:
2 Tim. 3:16 "16 All scripture is inspired by God and * profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. "
Jh. 7: “3810 For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved. 11* The scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.” He who believes in me, as * the scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.’”
2 Pet. 1: "20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. *
Jn. 3:5 "5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Rom. 6: "e we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2* By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3* Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4* We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. "
Acts 2 : "37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39* For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
Those are just a few examples upon which my opinion is built.
ChadS
Chad my brother,
Do these bible verses in amy way affect your views?
Love and prayers,
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Della
Guest
Are you sure that’s the verse you want to cite:
[20] He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.
I don’t see anything about Church authority in that statement, only about Christ’s destiny.
Sorry, no we don’t believe that. We believe that the Church is the visible Body of Christ in which one can be assured of salvation. Not quite the same thing.
Well, we really don’t think any of these things as you state them here. We know that Protestants, like Catholics, come in all stripes, and we know that there are those who believe in extreme things in both groups. We do see some dangers in some of the things Protestants believe because taking them to the extreme could actually go against Christ’s teachings. I’m sorry you have such a strong and poor opinion of Catholics and our beliefs. Of course, I would too if what you believe about the Church were true.
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mmmcounts
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My bad, 2 Peter.Are you sure that’s the verse you want to cite:
[20] He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.
I don’t see anything about Church authority in that statement, only about Christ’s destiny.
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mmmcounts
Guest
I said…
Assumption 2) The “ark of salvation” by which the world is saved from destruction- like in the days of Noah- is not Jesus, but the visible hierarchy of the Church of Rome.
Della said…
Sorry, no we don’t believe that. We believe that the Church is the visible Body of Christ in which one can be assured of salvation. Not quite the same thing.
Pope Pius IX says in the allocution “Singulari quadam” December 9th, 1854:
For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.
I will add:
That was pretty specific. The Apostolic Roman Church? Just that one denomination? And he actually says “this is the only ark of salvation.” I stand by my statement, which did not in any way imply that membership in the Apostolic Roman Church is sufficient for salvation- merely that it is necessary. This elevates the status of your particular denomination to approximately that of Jesus Christ.
Assumption 2) The “ark of salvation” by which the world is saved from destruction- like in the days of Noah- is not Jesus, but the visible hierarchy of the Church of Rome.
Della said…
Sorry, no we don’t believe that. We believe that the Church is the visible Body of Christ in which one can be assured of salvation. Not quite the same thing.
Pope Pius IX says in the allocution “Singulari quadam” December 9th, 1854:
For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.
I will add:
That was pretty specific. The Apostolic Roman Church? Just that one denomination? And he actually says “this is the only ark of salvation.” I stand by my statement, which did not in any way imply that membership in the Apostolic Roman Church is sufficient for salvation- merely that it is necessary. This elevates the status of your particular denomination to approximately that of Jesus Christ.
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bullfrog654
Guest
i believe in these days of tribulation we are to be on the backs of cc to bring us through smoothly out of the rapture. such things as the 7 seals or scrolls of the theif are they to ever be publicily excepted by the cc or buried under democratic blunderness during and or after the coming of the theif in the night. basically will the pope anounce who he is or what his knowledge of the seals or scrolls are. is this depriving mankind from biblical scripture id have to leave it in the hands of the cc
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NHInsider
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If the Catholic knows anything about interpretation, he will see both.
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Pug
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Uh, maybe that the two creation accounts are not two separate creations of two separate types of men? I’ve actually seen a person decide they must be separate men, like two races or something. I don’t think this concept would ever cross the mind of a Catholic, except that I just mentioned it.
The bible is full of little things that you can take in way that is at variance with the Catholic way, but it probably never crosses our minds to do so.
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AmbroseSJ
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The Apostolic Roman Church HAS Jesus Christ Himself in every tabernacle in every Church around the World. Jesus Christ Himself is our High Priest that offers Himself as a most pure sacrifice of Thanksgiving and Praise to the Most High God, forever, according to the Order of Melchisedech, in the Bread and Wine, that is; His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity on Catholic Altars around the world from sun up till sun down, as prophesied by Malachi the Prophet. Jesus Himself is Our Head, and we are all members of His Mystical Body. You were saying…
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Della
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You stated that the ark of salvation was the “visible hierarchy of the Church”. I refuted your statement. I nowhere declared that salvation is outside of the Church.I said…
Assumption 2) The “ark of salvation” by which the world is saved from destruction- like in the days of Noah- is not Jesus, but the visible hierarchy of the Church of Rome.
Della said…
Sorry, no we don’t believe that. We believe that the Church is the visible Body of Christ in which one can be assured of salvation. Not quite the same thing.
Pope Pius IX says in the allocution “Singulari quadam” December 9th, 1854:
For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.
I will add:
That was pretty specific. The Apostolic Roman Church? Just that one denomination? And he actually says “this is the only ark of salvation.” I stand by my statement, which did not in any way imply that membership in the Apostolic Roman Church is sufficient for salvation- merely that it is necessary. This elevates the status of your particular denomination to approximately that of Jesus Christ.
Since the Church is the Body of Christ, yes, in it’s divine nature which it shares with Christ is it on the same level as Christ. How could his Body not be him? Remember when Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus? He didn’t say: “Saul, Saul why are you persecuting my Church/my people?” He asked him: “Saul, Saul why are you persecuting ME?” The Church is the voice of Christ in the world and it isn’t a “denomination” it is the “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church” founded by Christ.
Having said that, what does salvation within the Church mean? The Catechism clarifies Pope Pius IX’s statements on the matter:
Also, all the baptized who are not Catholics are considered Christians imperfectly united with Christ and therefore imperfectly united to his Church. You simply don’t have enough information upon which to determine these things as the Catholic Church sees them. We are trying to give you that information, dear friend.
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PJM
Guest
I don’t see anything about Church authority in that statement, only about Christ’s destiny.
Sorry, no we don’t believe that. We believe that the Church is the visible Body of Christ in which one can be assured of salvation. Not quite the same thing.
My friend,Well, we really don’t think any of these things as you state them here. We know that Protestants, like Catholics, come in all stripes, and we know that there are those who believe in extreme things in both groups. We do see some dangers in some of the things Protestants believe because taking them to the extreme could actually go against Christ’s teachings. I’m sorry you have such a strong and poor opinion of Catholics and our beliefs. Of course, I would too if what you believe about the Church were true.
You responded with clarity and charity!
WELL DONE, good and faithgul servant:tiphat:
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