Assurance of Salvation

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geometer said:
You know what Jesus said to that kind of talk. If your son asks you for a fish, then would you give him a. serpent?
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Absolutely. If one approaches God with the confidence that He is, and He has the ability reward those that diligently seek Him, then one has the potential to enter into a relationship with HIm that will last for eternity.

On the other hand, some who begin to follow fail to continue. Remember that 50% of the seeds that sprouted did not bear any fruit. they withered and died, or were choked by weeds. The seeds sprouted and grew, then failed. Just like the disciples that walked away from Christ when HIs words became “hard”, so we can do.
 
TAB39 said:
Well just what do you assume that means? If you don’t believe that being saved means that you go to Heaven eventually, I would seriously question whether you are a Christian or not.
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TAB you are a pain in the neck, if you have nothing positive to add to the discussion then do all of the people here who are trying to have a civilized discussion a favour and keep quiet.
 
Howie01
Philthy, do you believe that the gift of perseverance would be a spiritual blessing from God?
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Perseverance would be of great help in working out my salvation (see Philippians 2:12) but even then I would have zero confidence in myself, knowing myself to be a fallible human being who is susceptible to sin at all times. No one is assured of their salvation. Galatians 5:4 clearly states that some have “fallen away from grace”. The Catholic interpretation of this is that those who had fallen away are no longer in a state of grace (i.e. if they died right then they would’ve went to Hell). It is a must-have for your soul to be in a state of grace (perfection) to enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). As someone earlier stated, Paul’s epistles were written for the instruction of those who were already Christians. Therefore we have biblical examples of real believers falling away from God’s Grace. These were not unsaved pagans, these were Christians who had falling into a state of mortal sin!

Remember, just like God, Satan comes like a theif in the night as well. We have no idea when temptation will come, so we are always susceptible to sin, and therefore always vulnerable to losing our state of Grace, and, by extension, WE OUR NOT ABSOLUTELY ASSURED OF OUR SALVATION!
 
TheWhoFreak said:
Perseverance would be of great help in working out my salvation (see Philippians 2:12) but even then I would have zero confidence in myself, knowing myself to be a fallible human being who is susceptible to sin at all times. No one is assured of their salvation. Galatians 5:4 clearly states that some have “fallen away from grace”. The Catholic interpretation of this is that those who had fallen away are no longer in a state of grace (i.e. if they died right then they would’ve went to Hell). It is a must-have for your soul to be in a state of grace (perfection) to enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). As someone earlier stated, Paul’s epistles were written for the instruction of those who were already Christians. Therefore we have biblical examples of real believers falling away from God’s Grace. These were not unsaved pagans, these were Christians who had falling into a state of mortal sin!

Remember, just like God, Satan comes like a theif in the night as well. We have no idea when temptation will come, so we are always susceptible to sin, and therefore always vulnerable to losing our state of Grace, and, by extension, WE OUR NOT ABSOLUTELY ASSURED OF OUR SALVATION!
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That doesn’t answer the question.
Do you believe that perserverance would be a spiritual blessing a from God?
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Howie01 said:
Philthy, do you believe that the gift of perseverance would be a spiritual blessing from God?
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Grace is a gift. Perseverance is accomplished - over time - when that gift is put to use - repeatedly. I would hesitate to use the term “the gift of perseverance” without knowing what you mean by it. I dont believe perseverance is described as a “gift” in the same sense of the other gifts listed in Scriptures. I could be wrong. Anyhow, the grace which we receive to enable us to persevere is indeed spiritual and it is indeed a blessing.
Too bad we wont get to here why this is relevant to AOS…
 
CWBetts said:
If you reject the authroity of the Church, you are no Catholic.
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there is probably a small percentage that would equate to thousands if not millions of people that question the Catholic church just as I do. It is no authority on God.
 
Louie1983 said:
TAB you are a pain in the neck, if you have nothing positive to add to the discussion then do all of the people here who are trying to have a civilized discussion a favour and keep quiet.
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Is this Christian behavior or does that not matter either?
 
Philthy said:
Hi TAB-

Being saved means that you have been joined to the Body of Christ and have been transferred from spiritual death to spiritual life. If you remain/abide “in Christ” and persevere to the end of your life in faith, hope and love (of God and neighbor) - repenting when you fail - then you will in fact go to Heaven. If, however, you are joined to the Body of Christ, remain/abide in Christ for a while but then lose your faith, lose your hope, lose your love and die in a state of faithless unrepentance you will not go to Heaven.
When Paul says we are saved “by grace through faith” he means exactly that and no more. You, like my friend NDfan, seem to confuse having been saved at one point in time with being in a state of grace at the time of your death. They are different - try rereading any of the NT that deals with the topic and you should be able to see the distinction easily.

Blessings!
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That’s not what I see nor is it for millions. I think that you should pray for discernment and try it again. I’m saying that in a charitable way so please don’t take offense to it. Your faith isn’t what it should be in Christ alone. There is is a serious defect in your thoughts on Salvation.
 
TAB39 said:
there is probably a small percentage that would equate to thousands if not millions of people that question the Catholic church just as I do. It is no authority on God.
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Yes, they are called Protestants. 😃

For some reason you reject this description for your faith? You find it necessary to mascarade as a catholic here?

What does it mean to be an “authority on God”? What does it mean to say the Catholic Church is not one?

Are you a more appropriate authority on God that the CC?
TAB39 said:
That’s not what I see nor is it for millions. I think that you should pray for discernment and try it again. I’m saying that in a charitable way so please don’t take offense to it. Your faith isn’t what it should be in Christ alone. There is is a serious defect in your thoughts on Salvation.
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Fortunately the Truth is not defined by how many people espouse an idea. It is defined by how God reveals it.

Is this post representative of the reason you are on CAF, TAB? Are you here to inform Catholics that the Church is teaching us thngs that are “severe defects in thoughts on Salvation”?

I asked you above if you found yourself a more appropriate authority on God than the Catholic Church. Now, reading this post, I think I see my answer. Whenever one begins to take it upon themselves to tell others that they should think, believe, and pray, it seems that such a one consideres himself the reliable authority.

News flash, TAB. Christ is never “alone”. He chose to build a Church, and to espouse HImself to her. He chose to make all those who come to Him in faith members of His One Body, and therefore, members one of another. This “just me and Jesus” mentality is a product of modern American Fundamentalism, and is not part of the Teaching of the Apostles.
 
TAB39 said:
there is probably a small percentage that would equate to thousands if not millions of people that question the Catholic church just as I do. It is no authority on God.
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So the Church set up by God is no authority on God? That makes perfect sense :rolleyes:.
Pull the other leg, this one’s getting tired.
 
Hi TAB
TAB39;:
That’s not what I see nor is it for millions.
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What is the “That” that you are referring to? You kinda left a lot to the imagination by not saying what you disagree with.
I think that you should pray for discernment and try it again.
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I have prayed for discernment, and I have studied Scripture and I am trying…
I’m saying that in a charitable way so please don’t take offense to it.
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No offense - you havent actually said anything other than you disagree with at least some of what I said - and I dont respect your opinion enough yet to be offended. I hope your not offended by my not being offended!
Your faith isn’t what it should be in Christ alone. There is is a serious defect in your thoughts on Salvation.
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I am open to being taught but what I posted is very biblical and consistent with the beliefs of the Apostles, their disciples, many Saints and martyrs in addition to millions upon millions of Christians.
Why not simply describe what you think is my “serious defect” in my understanding of salvation and then we can discuss it? I mean that’s what forums are for, right? Imagine if my response to you mirrored yours to me:

TAB:
You are confused greatly in your understanding of salvation! Me, all my friends and an unverifiable million other people disagree with you - need I say any more!? I think you need to pray more for wisdom and understanding and then return again and again (if necessary) until I let you know you have it right. Oh, and by the way, I mean this with the utmost charity - no offense intended but your thoughts are borderline evil!

I think you get the point - that type of “You’re wrong because I say so and the problem is that you lack discernment” dialogue is pointless. Why dont you simply point out what you find erroneous in my statements and leave out your thoughts on my spiritual state, my faith, need for discernment, etc etc, concentrate on the exchange of ideas and we can go from there? I hold no grudges brother…

Blessings!
 
Philthy said:
Hi TAB

What is the “That” that you are referring to? You kinda left a lot to the imagination by not saying what you disagree with.
I have prayed for discernment, and I have studied Scripture and I am trying…
No offense - you havent actually said anything other than you disagree with at least some of what I said - and I dont respect your opinion enough yet to be offended. I hope your not offended by my not being offended!
I am open to being taught but what I posted is very biblical and consistent with the beliefs of the Apostles, their disciples, many Saints and martyrs in addition to millions upon millions of Christians.
Why not simply describe what you think is my “serious defect” in my understanding of salvation and then we can discuss it? I mean that’s what forums are for, right? Imagine if my response to you mirrored yours to me:

TAB:
You are confused greatly in your understanding of salvation! Me, all my friends and an unverifiable million other people disagree with you - need I say any more!? I think you need to pray more for wisdom and understanding and then return again and again (if necessary) until I let you know you have it right. Oh, and by the way, I mean this with the utmost charity - no offense intended but your thoughts are borderline evil!

I think you get the point - that type of “You’re wrong because I say so and the problem is that you lack discernment” dialogue is pointless. Why dont you simply point out what you find erroneous in my statements and leave out your thoughts on my spiritual state, my faith, need for discernment, etc etc, concentrate on the exchange of ideas and we can go from there? I hold no grudges brother…

Blessings!
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Salvation is only from Christ. You nor anyone else is going to be able to show otherwise here. These complicated twists and turns through what the church says about what Scripture says are ridiculous. Jesus Christ saves us if we wish to be saved. Not Catholicism and not any other church for that matter. It is between us and Christ. I think you need to spend much more time openly reading Scripture. No offense intended.
 
TAB39 said:
Salvation is only from Christ. You nor anyone else is going to be able to show otherwise here. These complicated twists and turns through what the church says about what Scripture says are ridiculous. Jesus Christ saves us if we wish to be saved. Not Catholicism and not any other church for that matter. It is between us and Christ. I think you need to spend much more time openly reading Scripture. No offense intended.
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With every post you are revealing that you are just pretending to be a Catholic
 
TAB39 said:
Salvation is only from Christ. You nor anyone else is going to be able to show otherwise here. These complicated twists and turns through what the church says about what Scripture says are ridiculous. Jesus Christ saves us if we wish to be saved. Not Catholicism and not any other church for that matter. It is between us and Christ. I think you need to spend much more time openly reading Scripture. No offense intended.
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If you do spend time openly reading Scripture, you will come to find that Jesus founded a Church, and that those who come to Him He makes members of HIs One Body, the church. He is the Head, and we are the members of Him, and one another. This is why the Apostles taught that there is no salvation outside the Church. If we are connected to the Head, we are members one of another.

Also, Jesus only has One Body.

You may not intend to be offensive. Perhaps it just comes naturally. You have come to a catholic forum, masquerading as a catholic, demonstrating your ignorance of the catholic faith and insulting the members here. What do you want?
 
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