Astrology - Contradictory to Catholic Faith?

[pemier]

The question is actually not mine, but it comes from a friend. I had a discussion with a friend of mine over astrology. We both are Catholics, but he is also interested in astrology and other fields that I feel contradictory to the Catholic teaching, but I couldn’t really respond to his ideas. I’ve been searching this forum for a few days but I couldn’t find a complex answer to them.

From the Cathecism I could quote what is written there, but his definition of astrology was far wider. He claims that astrology does not involve supernatural powers, but powers of the nature which we cannot understand yet, but which still work, even if we ignore them. For example, it does matter when you plant or harvest, because if you plant e.g. potatoes on a “leaf” day, it will grow a lot of leaves, but only few potatoes. He says that astrology has little to do with foretelling the future, or describing personality traits, it is simply an understanding the working methods of certain powers which are present in the universe - similar to gravity. And the same powers affect us, resulting that say on certain days you need to be more careful when driving because it is more likely that you will have an accident. According to him, and his books, this does not contradict to the Catholic teaching, and it is good to be aware of these powers instead of ignoring them and maybe really having an accident.

He also claims that symbols of astrology are to be found in a lot of old churches, especially protestant churches, which proves that astrology used to be accepted by christianity in the past. He believes that the prohibition of astrology is a relatively new conception.

Could any one help me what to respond to these questions on the basis of the Catholic teaching?

PS. I’m sorry for the mistakes I might have made in my post, I’m not a native speaker of English.

 

[cranster]

2116 in the CCC should clear it up. People have made fun of me for years because I won’t let them read me my horoscope for the day, or because I walk away when they read theirs out loud, because it’s “harmless” fun, when in actuality it is a very subtle gateway to the demonic no matter what the justification is. It’s important to remember satan is the most subtle of creatures, and uses the most subtle of arguments in justifying evil. It’s best to stay in the safety of the authority of the Church about astrology. I think when someone asks what “your sign is” it’s best to say “The Cross of Jesus Christ”.

I also wouldn’t consider anything protestant “old”. Their form of deviation from the universal Church that Jesus founded on Peter has only been around for the last 500 years.

 

[Moscati]

My fiance is a physicist, and I think he might be perturbed at the notion that gravity was somehow akin to astrology–how would one go about designing an experiment to measure the effect of Saturn on my driving habits? There’s no way to establish cause and effect, and even establishing a correlation would be difficult. Science needs to be observable, repeatable, and measurable–I’m not sure how astrology ever could be. I chalk it up to superstition and don’t waste my time.

As to the symbols thing–perhaps he’s confusing Masonic temples with Protestant churches? Just a guess.

 

[archistrage]

Yes, astrology is contradictory to the Catholic faith. You are trying to put yourself in God’s place as the Omniscient being in the Universe. I must also add a part B) to Cranster’s answer as well. Demonic intervention is not the only method by which you can divine the future, although it is by far the most common, and no matter how you do it, you are still inviting demonic influence into your life.
In the Book of Genesis, “God said: 'Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the fixed times, the days and the years…” Gen 1:14. I remember reading once that some supposedly “Christian” was diving futures, trying to use that line to justify that God had put them there. I agree with them that God might could have put them there to mark those times, but I disagree that it justifies his actions. Even if you keep in your mind that it was God who put those things there, you are nevertheless removing his authority as Creator and God, and thus sinning against him. Look at the both of the Testaments; both are riddled with people to whom God gave visions of the future too, all by HIS doing. So leave that kind of job to God.

I think that one of the most dangerous thing about seeing the future, whether by God or demon, is having that knowledge of the future, of how things could be. And whether by God or demon, you must ask yourself if you really want that burden.

Archistrage

 

[pemier]

Thank you for your replies.

I might not have been clear enough with my questions, so I’ll try to ask them once more. The case of foretelling the future from the positions of the stars is quite straightforward. But in the other cases I have no arguments against say planting vegetables on certain days instead of others, especially when it seems to work. He says he has been using a kind of a diary made by astrologists to determine which day he should plant potatoes, cabbages, etc. in order to have better result, and he claims that it works for him. I need help with this.

On the other hand, I cannot explain him why it’s wrong to pay attention to warnings like be more careful when driving today because you are more likely to have an accident. His reason is that it’s not “fortune telling”, because it doesn’t say that this and this will happen to you whatever you do, it just tells about probability, and is a kind of a warning aimed at making you able to avoid it. I believe it’s wrong, but I have no reasons against it either.

Plus, as for the prohibition of astrology, I would be grateful if someone could give me a resource to prove that all forms of astrology have always been refused by Christians. And if someone could tell me anything about astrologic symbols used in Christian churches, I would be also grateful. I’m sure they aren’t there because they are related to astrology, I think they should be symbols that both astrology and Christians use, but I couldn’t find any info about it.

Thanks in advance,
Pemier

 

[Moscati]

Perhaps this will help–it has a pretty good list of early Church Fathers who were against astrology, and their arguments/reasoning:

catholic.com/library/Astrology.asp

I think your friend may simply say that the astrology he practices is somehow different than what they’re talking about. . . but I’d find it hard to believe that the Church has been misunderstanding it for 2000 years. It seems far more likely to me that your friend doesn’t really understand what he’s doing.

I can’t think of any symbol that Christianity shares with astrology, except maybe fish/Pisces. But I doubt one could mistake it for astrology. Context is everything.

 

[LittleBits]

I think it is somewhat fanatical 4 ppl 2 not allow ppl 2 read thir horoscopes, or 2 walk away when some1 reads thiers out loud… I read my horoscope, and don’t give it a second thought. I couldn’t begin 2 tell u if 1 has ever come true or even been close 2 accurate. It only becomes a problem when 1 begins 2 hold credence in what they read…
And who r we 2 say that God didn’t really intend 4 some info 2 b derived from the stars? He did create the stars, right? Although the Bible doesn’t say anything (2 my knowledge) about information being derived from the stars, doesn’t mean that it can’t b done. Y do ppl assume that God has 2 explain all of His wonders 2 us? We r his children, and He does NOT need 2 explain evrything 2 us… that ppl think He does is an arogant thught.
Just something 2 chew on. Feel free 2 message me with ur own questions, comments and concerns…

 

[Ahimsa]

The question is actually not mine, but it comes from a friend. I had a discussion with a friend of mine over astrology. We both are Catholics, but he is also interested in astrology and other fields that I feel contradictory to the Catholic teaching, but I couldn’t really respond to his ideas. I’ve been searching this forum for a few days but I couldn’t find a complex answer to them.

From the Cathecism I could quote what is written there, but his definition of astrology was far wider. He claims that astrology does not involve supernatural powers, but powers of the nature which we cannot understand yet, but which still work, even if we ignore them. For example, it does matter when you plant or harvest, because if you plant e.g. potatoes on a “leaf” day, it will grow a lot of leaves, but only few potatoes.

He’s right. Astrology does not involve supernatural powers.

He says that astrology has little to do with foretelling the future, or describing personality traits, it is simply an understanding the working methods of certain powers which are present in the universe - similar to gravity. And the same powers affect us, resulting that say on certain days you need to be more careful when driving because it is more likely that you will have an accident. According to him, and his books, this does not contradict to the Catholic teaching, and it is good to be aware of these powers instead of ignoring them and maybe really having an accident.

If he sees astrology as a type of “science”, dealing with natural forces and understanding such forces – which he seems to do – then he would not be violating the catechism, it would seem.

He also claims that symbols of astrology are to be found in a lot of old churches, especially protestant churches, which proves that astrology used to be accepted by christianity in the past. He believes that the prohibition of astrology is a relatively new conception.

Well, the wise men, the “magi”, who visited Jesus were astrologers, even if they are not to be equated with the astrology found in the newspapers.

Your friend seems to be using astrology for very mundane purposes – like determining when one is more likely to have an accident (which would not be fortune-telling, of course) and being more careful during that time. And I have no reason to doubt that astrology can help him in such cases (having seen astrology work myself in such cases). The major problem with astrology, though, is that it creates a distance between yourself and Creation and the Creator. Instead of experiencing Creation firsthand, the astrologer is creating a chart and then interpreting life-events in terms of that chart. Once one allows a chart to come between you and the Creation, that creates even further distance between you and the Creator. If one has sufficient faith in the Creator (and, thus, in the Creation), astrology becomes unnecessary.