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Dorothy
Guest
It is the Holy Spirit that shows us what our traits, talents, and motives are. This comes through prayer.
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J
Julianna
Guest
Really? Just by reading a horoscope? I am smart enough to know that it is pure fantasy…even though I am a Pisces, a 9 on the Ennegram, an ENFJ on Meyers Briggs, and a “dog” on Chinese Astrology. None of that has the ability to shake my faith…let alone evil oppression and possession. I don’t give evil that much credence.
Ouiji boards, tarot cards are pure hokum…and so are psychics.
A Mother’s intuition…ah that’s another story.
E
Emese
Guest
So should we reject psychology, counselling and medicine as well?
D
Dorothy
Guest
Of course not. They are valid fields of knowledge that can help us. And discernment is necessary in order for us to choose a good psychologist, counselor or doctor.
E
Emese
Guest
What do you mean by “valid”? What makes a knowledge “valid”?
There were times when science, medicine or psychology weren’t “valid” either…in the eyes of the church for example…
I do agree though that you have to choose wisely when you seek help…
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Dorothy
Guest
Perhaps I could have used a better word, but by saying valid I mean that the particular knowledge can be helpful to us. For instance, antibiotics can stop serious infections. (on the other hand, and overuse of them can cause problems as well.) A good therapist can help a troubled marriage. etc.
Instead of valid, I could have used viable or workable.
F
FRLBJ
Guest
Julianna,
On a certain level they the occult is all nonsense, but the demons use them to ensnare the unwary.They are anti-sacramentals. They can open you to demon spirits. Just as the praying the Rosary, wearing blessed medals, using holy water, reading the Bible make it easier for one to obtain grace and open up to the Holy Spirit.
That does not meant that you will become a Christian or a saint from using sacramentals. But if you wish to grow in the grace of God and continue on the path to heaven, you will use sacramentals as a help.
There is no science to it, since science has nothing to say about spiritual forces.
Noone’s behavior is determined by the stars. Psychology does have some verifiable truth about human behavior which astrology does not. By the way, the demons are experts at deception and manipulation and are more intelligent than human beings. They can make something appear to coincide with the star chart.
The Precious Blood of Jesus deliver us!
On a certain level they the occult is all nonsense, but the demons use them to ensnare the unwary.They are anti-sacramentals. They can open you to demon spirits. Just as the praying the Rosary, wearing blessed medals, using holy water, reading the Bible make it easier for one to obtain grace and open up to the Holy Spirit.
That does not meant that you will become a Christian or a saint from using sacramentals. But if you wish to grow in the grace of God and continue on the path to heaven, you will use sacramentals as a help.
There is no science to it, since science has nothing to say about spiritual forces.
Noone’s behavior is determined by the stars. Psychology does have some verifiable truth about human behavior which astrology does not. By the way, the demons are experts at deception and manipulation and are more intelligent than human beings. They can make something appear to coincide with the star chart.
The Precious Blood of Jesus deliver us!
J
Julianna
Guest
I appreciate your thoughts and respectfully disagree on some points. Other Christian faiths do not uze sacramentals…it doesn’t mean they are more susceptible to evil. The sacramentals help us focus…the medals identify us and keep us focused. They don’t have special powers to ward off evil. I don’t dwell on evil…I don’t look for it behind every tree or bush. I don’t believe that evil thinks humans are dupes because I don’t give it credence. Astrology is like reading Greek Mythology. …nice stories without much to back it up.
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FRLBJ
Guest
Sacramentals do help us focus and thus keep in the state of grace. There are also spiritual aspects to them. Holy water does aid in warding off demon spirits. Yes, most of the protestants do not have sacramentals and yes, they do have less help in staying on the straight and narrow due to ignorance of or rejection of the Catholic faith.
Astrology is part and parcel of the New Age movement which on one level is nonsense, but there are also spiritual powers behind them which wish to help us go to Hell with them.
This is the Catholic teaching. It is your prerogative, if you wish to try to make on your own power…
Astrology is part and parcel of the New Age movement which on one level is nonsense, but there are also spiritual powers behind them which wish to help us go to Hell with them.
This is the Catholic teaching. It is your prerogative, if you wish to try to make on your own power…
J
Julianna
Guest
Oh boy…interesting. I’ve never heard it explained quite like that before. Not
One of my CCD teachers from 1965-1971 ever mentioned that my mother (a Baptist) was more susceptible to evil than my father because her faith does not use sacramentals and because she is not Catholic
Oh I am far from making it on my own… …
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
If sacramentals have no power then how could they be used in things like blessings, baptisms and even exorcisms?
Spiritual warfare is indeed real. And both sides have powerful weapons. And yes, protestants are not armed with the same weapons as Catholics.
Honestly if people thought more about the Holy Water they cross themselves with at Church. And did not view it as merely symbolic, perhaps even more grace would flow to us in the Mass.
Spiritual warfare is indeed real. And both sides have powerful weapons. And yes, protestants are not armed with the same weapons as Catholics.
Honestly if people thought more about the Holy Water they cross themselves with at Church. And did not view it as merely symbolic, perhaps even more grace would flow to us in the Mass.
M
mlz
Guest
For our protection! We live not only in a physical world but a spiritual world. Our Lord wants us to be wise as serpents but innocent as doves and gives us spiritual boundaries to keep us safe from evil.
mlz
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BluesPicker
Guest
translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.diosalva.net/it/inganni-demonio/cartomanzia-astrologia-divinazione-cristianesimo-chiesa.php&usg=ALkJrhi8YPUWHURpIbKgZ7WCVFByOrq5nw
S. Augustine: ""The astrologers claim that there is in the sky the inevitable cause of sin are Venus or Saturn or Mars that made us do this or that action, meaning that it is no fault of the man, who is flesh and blood and verminous pride , and the blame falls on the one who created and rules the sky and the stars “(St.” Augustine, Confessions, IV, 3). And again: ""We must recognize that when astrologers say the truth, this is done under a covert inspiration that human souls suffer without knowing it. And since the underlying purpose is to deceive men, is the work of evil spirits and deceivers, who is allowed to know some actual data on temporal things. For this good Christian should beware of astrologers and all those engaged in the art of divination, especially if they predict the truth, so that his soul will not be ensnared by them through trade with the demons, in agreement with these “(id.,” Super Gen. ad litt., 11, 17).
It 's true that the heavenly bodies, particularly the moon, exert an influence on the nature (think of it as simply take into account the farmers for planting or for the transfer of wine). Can influence together with other weather factors also mood of the people and events such as childbirth. But ““can not exert a direct influence on the intellect and the will”” (St. Thomas, Summa Theologica, I-II, 9, 5).
""Man has the right to judge and reflect on everything that can operate both in the use of external things, such as seconding and reject the internal passions, and this would be useless if our desire was caused by the stars and not was in our faculty. It is therefore possible that the stars are the cause of our election voluntary “(St.” Thomas, Summa contra gentiles, III, 85). At “most, “inclinant astra, sed non necessitant.””
Peschke rightly observes: ""The scientific Astrology with its coarse classifications according to the constellations is never able to give a truly individual horoscope for every single person. Positions of the stars, for all those who are born approximately stretched out in time, are the same, which should lead to the same horoscope and consequently the same fate for all. Dozens of people have laid the horoscope of Napoleon, Goethe or Gandhi. But which of them had the same talents or the same fate? This is not is true even for twins “(KH” Peschke, Christian Ethics, p. 145).
A popular form of astrology is the 'Horoscope. For many it is a fad, a game. But for others it is reality. Regarding these people is sad to observe how they depend on their decisions by reading the zodiac sign. And 'practiced mostly by secular people, who do not believe in God or do not practice the religion, even if they are rare cases of believers who think it is right to reconcile religion and superstition. Is particularly true for them as says St. Paul: ““Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”” (Romans 1:22).
Many of these good Christians to believe maybe, despite blindly believe in astral themes and characteristics of the signs. They build the perfect alibi that astrology is basically harmless and useful. E 'instead critical to understand that the more they are thought to be safe some ties with evil, are much more subtle and will lead to conditions in which the divine light can no longer penetrate to enlighten, advise, guide and discern what is right and what is not it is.
This seemingly harmless little game of astrology does massive damage, and not only with reference to the horoscope of the daily radio or newspapers. Many people do not even engage in a conversation without first having investigated the zodiac sign of belonging to the person with whom they relate.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church condemns without hesitation astrology and states that opposes the recognition of the absolute dominion of God on our lives.
Here is the text: "“All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to” unveil "the future.
Consulting horoscopes, astrology, the palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and finally on the men well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the 'honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone “(CCC” 2116).
““God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Nevertheless, the Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it”” (CCC 2115) .
The fact that judgments are sometimes correspond to the truth, does not mean that the medium used is lawful. St. Paul warns that the devil often disguises himself as an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14).
Resorting to astrology knowing that God and the Church condemn, it means putting your life in the hands of other forces, which are not the divine. If someone asks you what sign you are, tell them that your only acknowledgment is only Jesus Christ.
S. Augustine: ""The astrologers claim that there is in the sky the inevitable cause of sin are Venus or Saturn or Mars that made us do this or that action, meaning that it is no fault of the man, who is flesh and blood and verminous pride , and the blame falls on the one who created and rules the sky and the stars “(St.” Augustine, Confessions, IV, 3). And again: ""We must recognize that when astrologers say the truth, this is done under a covert inspiration that human souls suffer without knowing it. And since the underlying purpose is to deceive men, is the work of evil spirits and deceivers, who is allowed to know some actual data on temporal things. For this good Christian should beware of astrologers and all those engaged in the art of divination, especially if they predict the truth, so that his soul will not be ensnared by them through trade with the demons, in agreement with these “(id.,” Super Gen. ad litt., 11, 17).
It 's true that the heavenly bodies, particularly the moon, exert an influence on the nature (think of it as simply take into account the farmers for planting or for the transfer of wine). Can influence together with other weather factors also mood of the people and events such as childbirth. But ““can not exert a direct influence on the intellect and the will”” (St. Thomas, Summa Theologica, I-II, 9, 5).
""Man has the right to judge and reflect on everything that can operate both in the use of external things, such as seconding and reject the internal passions, and this would be useless if our desire was caused by the stars and not was in our faculty. It is therefore possible that the stars are the cause of our election voluntary “(St.” Thomas, Summa contra gentiles, III, 85). At “most, “inclinant astra, sed non necessitant.””
Peschke rightly observes: ""The scientific Astrology with its coarse classifications according to the constellations is never able to give a truly individual horoscope for every single person. Positions of the stars, for all those who are born approximately stretched out in time, are the same, which should lead to the same horoscope and consequently the same fate for all. Dozens of people have laid the horoscope of Napoleon, Goethe or Gandhi. But which of them had the same talents or the same fate? This is not is true even for twins “(KH” Peschke, Christian Ethics, p. 145).
A popular form of astrology is the 'Horoscope. For many it is a fad, a game. But for others it is reality. Regarding these people is sad to observe how they depend on their decisions by reading the zodiac sign. And 'practiced mostly by secular people, who do not believe in God or do not practice the religion, even if they are rare cases of believers who think it is right to reconcile religion and superstition. Is particularly true for them as says St. Paul: ““Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”” (Romans 1:22).
Many of these good Christians to believe maybe, despite blindly believe in astral themes and characteristics of the signs. They build the perfect alibi that astrology is basically harmless and useful. E 'instead critical to understand that the more they are thought to be safe some ties with evil, are much more subtle and will lead to conditions in which the divine light can no longer penetrate to enlighten, advise, guide and discern what is right and what is not it is.
This seemingly harmless little game of astrology does massive damage, and not only with reference to the horoscope of the daily radio or newspapers. Many people do not even engage in a conversation without first having investigated the zodiac sign of belonging to the person with whom they relate.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church condemns without hesitation astrology and states that opposes the recognition of the absolute dominion of God on our lives.
Here is the text: "“All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to” unveil "the future.
Consulting horoscopes, astrology, the palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and finally on the men well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the 'honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone “(CCC” 2116).
““God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Nevertheless, the Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it”” (CCC 2115) .
The fact that judgments are sometimes correspond to the truth, does not mean that the medium used is lawful. St. Paul warns that the devil often disguises himself as an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14).
Resorting to astrology knowing that God and the Church condemn, it means putting your life in the hands of other forces, which are not the divine. If someone asks you what sign you are, tell them that your only acknowledgment is only Jesus Christ.
E
Emese
Guest
Just to clarify a few points.
Astrology can not predict “future” as the so called “future” is not predetermined. Also it souldn’t attempt to predict as any kind of prediction can influence free will.
The stars and planets do not influence one’s personality as such, as I pointed out earlier they are a system of symbols.
All birth charts are different, even twins with only 5 minutes difference can have very different constellations.
The time and date of birth of an individual is upto God, so I don’t believe doctors or parents can really influence this.
Astrology can not predict “future” as the so called “future” is not predetermined. Also it souldn’t attempt to predict as any kind of prediction can influence free will.
The stars and planets do not influence one’s personality as such, as I pointed out earlier they are a system of symbols.
All birth charts are different, even twins with only 5 minutes difference can have very different constellations.
The time and date of birth of an individual is upto God, so I don’t believe doctors or parents can really influence this.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Um, yes they can.
Many people “schedule” induced labor nowadays.
J
Joseph73
Guest
The Catholic Church is not opposed to the Meyer-Briggs:Really? Just by reading a horoscope? I am smart enough to know that it is pure fantasy…even though I am a Pisces, a 9 on the Ennegram, an ENFJ on Meyers Briggs, and a “dog” on Chinese Astrology. None of that has the ability to shake my faith…let alone evil oppression and possession. I don’t give evil that much credence.
Ouiji boards, tarot cards are pure hokum…and so are psychics.
A Mother’s intuition…ah that’s another story.
catholic.com/quickquestions/is-the-church-opposed-to-the-myers-briggs-personality-tests
The other stuff is a different story.
E
Emese
Guest
Hmmm…
Doctors induce labour or schedule delivery for medical reasons, so these are within God’s will. So the same applies as per one is born when he/she is meant to be born.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
That is fatalism and false.
It is also illogical.
Many people are given the choice to induce. Many do it on a special day close to the due date. Such as 12/12/12.
Do you really think God wills people to make decisions based on this?
The same faulty logic for horoscopes is in your philosophy on this.
The idea that we are not in control of our own choices and lives. God does not orchestrate life threatening medical emergencies, nor the idea that it is fun to have a baby on a certain day. Sin is the cause of medical problems anyway, not God.
Really, put a little thought into what you are saying. Because it does not jive with Catholic thought.
S
Skadi
Guest
A mans fate is fixed, there is nothing you can do to change it. so from my view that is not illogical
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I was speaking from a Catholic perspective.
The negation of free will is not compatible with my faith.
But thanks for making my point for me.
You can not be Catholic and deny free will and it’s benefits and consequences.
Pagan, well that is a different story for a different thread.
I would indeed be interested in a logical explanation for your belief.
Start a thread and tell me where you put it. I’ll contribute.
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