At a crossroads with Catholicism

[MrAugust]

I didn’t take my belief in God seriously until a few years ago when I really needed Him. There were issues I had which put me on my knees in prayer, and I don’t even want to think about where I would be had He not answered those prayers.

I started attending a Catholic Church every Sunday (or almost all of them). I started reading the Bible and educating myself - kind of a “Catholicism for Dummies” home study course if you will. I felt emotions and feelings for God that I hadn’t felt before.

As I went through this journey something happened along the way. There were many things I learned about Catholic beliefs that just didn’t sit right with me. And when I referred to the Bible there was just more confusion - especially when learning about obeying the church even when you don’t agree with their rules.

My question is have any of you ever been in this situation in your faith journey, and how did you go from this point to end up in a place where you are now ? In 40 years I’ve very slowly gone from being baptized a Roman Catholic to now being one who loves God and Jesus but is very skeptical of the Churches’ interpretations of the Bible. I’m just not 100% willing and able to submit to teachings of fallible human beings - to summarize, I’m stuck in Sola Scriptura mode.

I’m not looking for passages on binding and loosing … I’ve already been lectured on that … I’m just curious what some of you did to get to the point where you are 100% unconditionally submissive and accepting of everything the Church has taught you.

Thank you for your help. My image of what God really is has gotten very confusing as a result of this.

 

[Newbie2]

I would recommend reading Yves Congar’s “The meaning of Tradition”.

If you are able to understand and accept the concept of Tradition, Sola Scriptura won’t make the sense that it may now.

 

[lizaanne]

…very skeptical of the Churches’ interpretations of the Bible.

Just something to keep in mind as you await other responses…the Catholic Church WROTE the Bible. So when you are thinking about “the Church’s interpretation” of it, remember that Catholics wrote it (albeit through Divine Inspiration), and put it down on paper. So it’s not as if the Bible existed and THEN the Church gave her slant on it - that is not the case at all. We would not have a Bible AT ALL were it not for the Catholics who wrote it and died for it.

May God bless you in your discernment - there are many questions on the road to the Truth, and I think this is a good place to start. Please also make sure you get a copy of the Catechism, that will help you with some basics as well.

~Liza

 

[Della]

The Bible does not and cannot stand apart from the Sacred Tradition that gave it to us. The Church existed long before the NT was written. The Bible was complied mainly to have a canon of books approved by the Church to be read in the liturgies of the Church, primarily the Mass.

Personal study of the Bible is fine, but you and I are not trained theologians nor do we understand what the mind of the Church was when the NT was written, but the Church that has been there from the inception of the NT does know.

The Bible was never meant to be a complete book of theology–that is and never was its purpose. It is “merely” the writings of the OT as well as the Gospels and Letters of the NT, but it is not the sum total of Christian teaching, nor was it ever conceived of being that before the reformation. The reformers came up with that idea to promote their new heretical teachings.

Remember this, Jesus established the Church, his Church, as he called it. He never established any writings or asked for any book to be made. The Bible was a product of the Church, not the other way around, and it is therefore the Church that has the right and obligation to interpret it, teach it, and preach, not just anyone who happens to read it on his own.

 

[SFO]

Hello MrAugust,

There are many who share your experience…including me. I am a born and raised Catholic and I still struggle with some things. However, my overall experience with the Catholic Church has been a positive one and I continue to trust Her even if at times I don’t fully understand.

Namaste.

SFO

 

[rwoehmke]

Over the years I have had problems with this or that teaching of the Church. Most often with the passage of time and observation of those around me, I have become aware of the inherent wisdom in what was being taught. Another angle is to pray for wisdom and for obedience to the Church and its teachings. I think God has a special affection for those who want to understand and obey His Church.

 

[bilop]

I’m just not 100% willing and able to submit to teachings of fallible human beings - to summarize, I’m stuck in Sola Scriptura mode.

The problem with this, is that if you go into Sola Scriptura mode you are relying on the interpretation of just one fallible human, you.

I guess I’d rather rely on the centuries of brilliant minds who have shaped Catholic Doctrine (Paul, Luke, Augustine, Aquinas, Bonaventure) the list goes on and on.

God Bless

 

[mercygate]

I didn’t take my belief in God seriously until a few years ago when I really needed Him. There were issues I had which put me on my knees in prayer, and I don’t even want to think about where I would be had He not answered those prayers.

I started attending a Catholic Church every Sunday (or almost all of them). I started reading the Bible and educating myself - kind of a “Catholicism for Dummies” home study course if you will. I felt emotions and feelings for God that I hadn’t felt before.

As I went through this journey something happened along the way. There were many things I learned about Catholic beliefs that just didn’t sit right with me. And when I referred to the Bible there was just more confusion - especially when learning about obeying the church even when you don’t agree with their rules.

My question is have any of you ever been in this situation in your faith journey, and how did you go from this point to end up in a place where you are now ? In 40 years I’ve very slowly gone from being baptized a Roman Catholic to now being one who loves God and Jesus but is very skeptical of the Churches’ interpretations of the Bible. I’m just not 100% willing and able to submit to teachings of fallible human beings - to summarize, I’m stuck in Sola Scriptura mode.

I’m not looking for passages on binding and loosing … I’ve already been lectured on that … I’m just curious what some of you did to get to the point where you are 100% unconditionally submissive and accepting of everything the Church has taught you.

Thank you for your help. My image of what God really is has gotten very confusing as a result of this.

Sounds like quite a journey. Here’s a question to ask yourself: Why would you not be even more skeptical of your own interpretations of Scripture than of the interpretations of the Church who wrote it?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

My question is have any of you ever been in this situation in your faith journey, and how did you go from this point to end up in a place where you are now ?

Absolutely. My priest is used to me showing up at his office, tears streaming down my face, exclaiming “I know what you’re going to say and I’m not going to do it; I don’t want to do it, so if God wants me to do it, he has to force me to do it and I will give Him permission to force me but I don’t want to do it.”

:whacky:

And you want to know something?

IT’S… ALL… ABOUT… TRUST.

Ask yourself this: do you have broken trust? Now ask yourself if there is someone in your life who can both advise you about Catholic teaching and stand in a position of trust for you.

 

[Rawb]

Well every questionable belief has a reason behind it, as I’m sure you’ve figured out.

I was finally glad to find a church who had reasonable defenses for beliefs I wasan’t sure I agreed with. If you agree 100% with everything your church teaches (and I mean belief 100% and agree with it 100%, not just that you’re willing to obey and believe it must be that way because the Church says so) then you’ve probably just made up your own religion.

Think back, did you always agree or understand why your parents wouldn’t let you do something? Did that mean they were wrong? Did that mean they didn’t have your best interests at heart (they may have not, but I think you get where I’m going with this). You’re beliefs are YOUR beliefs if you are only following those things you find believable or reasonable. If you are following GOD’S way, you will find things hard, sometimes unbelievable, or disagreeable. That’s just the natural effect of following a way layed out by someone else.

After a while you’ll be granted the grace to more fully accept and believe those doctrines, and you’ll realize they actually make complete sense. Trust Holy Mother Church and don’t turn away from Her while you’re figuring out just why she teaches as she does - because eventually you’ll understand and see the reason. I’ll pray for you.

 

[MrAugust]

Just something to keep in mind as you await other responses…the Catholic Church WROTE the Bible. So when you are thinking about “the Church’s interpretation” of it, remember that Catholics wrote it (albeit through Divine Inspiration), and put it down on paper.
~Liza

The Church that wrote the Bible is different, in certain rules, rituals, and requirements for salvation, than the Church of today.

Believe me, if Paul and Luke and the boys were still around and telling me that all of these changes are perfectly correct and divinely inspired by God, I wouldn’t be having this problem.

 

[the_phoenix]

Believe me, if Paul and Luke and the boys were still around and telling me that all of these changes are perfectly correct and divinely inspired by God, I wouldn’t be having this problem.

I did not have Paul, Luke and the boys. But I did have my grandma! And grandpa, and mom and dad …

Ani Ibi is right. It comes down to trust.

If you do not know who else to talk to, I would encourage you to visit the Blessed Sacrament and ask Jesus Himself.

God bless you!

~~ the phoenix

 

[VociMike]

The problem with this, is that if you go into Sola Scriptura mode you are relying on the interpretation of just one fallible human, you.

This is a critical point. If the Magisterium of the Church is nothing more than fallible men, then surely the OP is also nothing more than a fallible man. So then, if we reject any divine assistance, we are down to one novice vs. 2000 years of thought and study of scriptures. Honestly, who wins that one?

On the other hand, if we don’t reject divine assistance, if we assume the Holy Spirit will guide the fallible OP, then why couldn’t the Holy Spirit also guide those fallible men who make up the Magisterium?

“Sola Scriptura mode” really boils down to “the Holy Spirit is guiding me and all those who agree with me, but is not guiding those who don’t agree with me, and is most certainly, definitely not guiding the Magisterium of the Catholic Church”. And that is nothing more than a self-justifying point of view.

 

[VociMike]

Believe me, if Paul and Luke and the boys were still around and telling me that all of these changes are perfectly correct and divinely inspired by God, I wouldn’t be having this problem.

What you are describing sounds like a cult of personality. Paul, Luke and the boys are still here - they just have different names. The bishops of the Church, acting in union with the Bishop of Rome, are still here.

 

[retrovert]

Mr. August,
Don’t feel alone. I went through the exact same thing for several years. I think I went to every church in town during that time, but finally got sick of the long sermons, loud music and Wed. night bible studies. What really bothered me was that all of them were teaching something different and all believed they were right. Approximately 30,000 different “denominations” and all of them preaching something different…
What turned me around was watching EWTN and reading books lilke Karl Keatings Catholicism and Fundamentalism , and Patrick Madrid’s Surprized by Truth. I would highly recommend both of these plus a lot of prayer. You do that and you’ll be back and be glad to be home again.
Will keep you in my prayers…

 

[Ani_Ibi]

MrAugust:

The Church that wrote the Bible is different, in certain rules, rituals, and requirements for salvation, than the Church of today.

No. This sounds like some of the authorial intent hermeneutic that the Emerging Church Movement people go on about. While it is true that the human part of inspired writings wrote from and about historically and culturally and linguistically specific contexts there is another part to the equation. That part is ‘inspired.’ God inspired the writers to write for all people always and everywhere. So on matters of faith and morals what was taught in the 1st C Church is taught in the 21st C Church.

MrAugust:

Believe me, if Paul and Luke and the boys were still around and telling me that all of these changes are perfectly correct and divinely inspired by God, I wouldn’t be having this problem.

What changes?

 

[tnbella7]

Mr. August,
Don’t feel alone. I went through the exact same thing for several years. I think I went to every church in town during that time, but finally got sick of the long sermons, loud music and Wed. night bible studies. What really bothered me was that all of them were teaching something different and all believed they were right. Approximately 30,000 different “denominations” and all of them preaching something different…
What turned me around was watching EWTN and reading books lilke Karl Keatings Catholicism and Fundamentalism , and Patrick Madrid’s Surprized by Truth. I would highly recommend both of these plus a lot of prayer. You do that and you’ll be back and be glad to be home again.
Will keep you in my prayers…

My journey as well. You are definitely not alone in your quest. I view coming back to the church kind of like eating an elephant - you start with one bite. Choose something that bothers you about the church and investigate it. Why does the church believe it? What does the church really teach about it? And then once you are comfortable with that teaching, move on to the next bite.

I found when I returned to the church, I harbored quite a few of my evangelical beliefs. But once I viewed the bible as a whole (not just a few key verses), I really fell in love again with the Catholic church. There truly is a fullness in it. Returning to the church isn’t instantenous. It is deliberate and sometimes challenging.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

My journey as well. You are definitely not alone in your quest. I view coming back to the church kind of like eating an elephant - you start with one bite. Choose something that bothers you about the church and investigate it. Why does the church believe it? What does the church really teach about it? And then once you are comfortable with that teaching, move on to the next bite…

Yes this is wise advice. I find a lot of converters want to rush things. I guess they are used to altar calls. No no no. Becoming a Catholic takes a long time. The Holy Spirit is a Gentleman. He does not rush. He does not force. Neither do we.

So ask questions one at a time. The Catholic Church is a Church of answers. We will not leave you high and dry embarrassed to ask questions.

And don’t forget the worship side. Attend Mass when you can. Adore the Host when you can. That nourishment goes beyond words and is important for your peace. Don’t rush.

 

[FrankLawrence]

If you trust the Bible, does that include trusting what the Bible refers to as “The pillar and bulwark of truth?” See 1 Timothy 3:15.
You seem to think that the beliefs of the Church have changed since the time the Bible was written. Read the Church Fathers, as many are directly quoted on the “Fathers know best” section of this website. You can also go to staycatholic.com which is a website that helped me, and is still helping me tremendously. I would also recommend the book, By What Authority, which is written by Mark Shea. That book was CRUCIAL in making me understand the authority of the Catholic Church, as opposed to the whims of my own comprehension skills, which is exactly what Sola-Scriptura is…not the Bible, but our own fallible comprehension skills applied to the Bible.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Mr. August,

I’d like to reiterate what An Ibi said (she’s a sharp one – read up on her posts ) about trust.

At some point, even in human relationships, we must make a decision to trust another person. The same holds true here – if you revert to your Sola Scriptura tendencies, you are holding on to what is comfortable, not to what is more valid.

Even non-Catholic Christians exhort one another to place their trust in Christ. You know intellectually that he won’t lead you astray, so the only roadblock is an emotional one. To follow Christ, one must be willing to leave behind one’s pride and admit one’s inability to go it alone – which is what Sola Scriptura ultimately requires.

To answer your question: I think the turning point in my reversion to the Church was when I asked God to let me know His will and to give me the strength and courage to do it, even if I didn’t understand it or agree. He did.

Another intellectual turning point was really thinking about Christ’s commissioning of Peter and the founding of the Church and what that means: he was guaranteeing his guidance, saying that his Spirit would lead them “to all truth”. When I really got my mind around that, my petty squabbles ("Why can’t married couples use protection? and such like) seemed to melt away. Maybe I didn’t agree, but I was willing at last to acknowledge that I didn’t understand.

With the respect due to a brother, I implore you to lay aside your pride and tell Jesus (yes, go to Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, as suggested above) that you are willing to trust him and his Church, and that you will obey when you don’t agree. Pray for wisdom and humility, and pray for your faith.

You’re almost there – almost! I’ll pray for you.

Peace,
Dante