At Mass, can we use a Chalice that is not gold?

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ND_Mike

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I’m the sacristarian at my dorm and we always use this clay Chalice and Ciborium. They are glazed on the inside, I believe but I was under the impression we cannot use that kind of material for sacred vessels. I’m going to try and use the gold Chalice and patent tonight at Mass and see what Fr. says. Hopefully he won’t get upset.
 
There is no requirement that the chalice/paten be gold, even on the inside. They only have to be made of “precious materials” and the Church does not define these.

Deacon Ed
 
The chalice and paten we currently use are clay. I think it is glazed. I’m not sure. I don’t think clay is allowed. My priest won’t even wash his hands before the consecration. I’m trying to get us to use our gold chalice and paten only because I don’t think the clay is precious.
 
ND Mike:
The chalice and paten we currently use are clay. I think it is glazed. I’m not sure. I don’t think clay is allowed. My priest won’t even wash his hands before the consecration. I’m trying to get us to use our gold chalice and paten only because I don’t think the clay is precious.
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From Redemptionis Sacramentum:
[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]
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Emphasis mine…

So no, one cannot use clay as the chalice. Good luck with your pastor. You sound like you may need it…
 
No matter how you slice it glazed pottery is not a precious substance.
 
Deacon Ed:
There is no requirement that the chalice/paten be gold, even on the inside.
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Ordinarily, the sacred vessels should be gilded, at least on the inside. Gilded does not necessarily mean “gold” (it can sometimes describe the process rather than the product) but in the context of the statement in the GIRM, it is quite clear the Holy See intends the insides of sacred vessels to be of gold.
328. Sacred vessels are to be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, then ordinarily they should be gilded on the inside.
Obviously, the way this statement is written, it only pertains to metal sacred vessels. As in so many other unfortunate cases, the U.S. is granted special permission to use “other noble materials”. I suppose the argument could be made that if one uses crystal, for example, then it need not be gilded on the inside.

Is that what you mean?

Thanks!
 
I don’t recall where I read this…so please don’t ask for reference… but I seem to remember the reason given for the preference to Gold, other than the obvious fact of it’s status and nobility, was that it doesn’t corrode/tarnish… and is thus very stable… with other materials there is the possibility of improper purification… with clay, the glazing could get scratched or cracked and the precious blood could get into the clay…thus not properly or completely consumed… Glass & Crystal for obvious breaking & cracking potential Silver can react with some compounds in the precious blood…and it tarnishes…Gold is considered the best as far as maintaining the “purity” of the contents.
 
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msproule:
Ordinarily, the sacred vessels should be gilded, at least on the inside. Gilded does not necessarily mean “gold” (it can sometimes describe the process rather than the product) but in the context of the statement in the GIRM, it is quite clear the Holy See intends the insides of sacred vessels to be of gold.328. Sacred vessels are to be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, then ordinarily they should be gilded on the inside.

Obviously, the way this statement is written, it only pertains to metal sacred vessels. As in so many other unfortunate cases, the U.S. is granted special permission to use “other noble materials”. I suppose the argument could be made that if one uses crystal, for example, then it need not be gilded on the inside.

Is that what you mean?

Thanks!
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If the material from which the chalice is made is not porous or subject to rusting then it need not be guilded. Not that I originally said that there was not requirement and this is, indeed, the case. The Church says that certain materials should ordinarily (as a general rule, normally) be guilded.

An example, my Latin pastor has a wooden chalice that contains a gold “cup” within the chalice. This meets the requirements of not being porous. We also use pewter chalices – they don’t rust nor do they react to wine and therefore nothing need be done.

The original question was whether or not we could use a chalice that was not gold. The answer is that yes, we can.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
The original question was whether or not we could use a chalice that was not gold. The answer is that yes, we can.
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I recognize the accuracy of your reply to the original question in the subject line. However, given the context of the original question, I thought more helpful details could be provided because this situation requires greater consideration.

ND Mike is faced with a dilemma: He has both earthenware and gold vessels at his disposal and (in my opinion) wants to know whether one is more appropriate than the other and if so, why. This is not a matter of “should we gold plate the insides of clay chalices and ciboria?”.

Clearly, there is a preference on the part of the Holy See. Allowances exist for various reasons, but I doubt (once again, my opinion) the CDWDS would condone gold vessels gathering dust in a storage closet while less noble materials are being used.
 
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msproule:
I recognize the accuracy of your reply to the original question in the subject line. However, given the context of the original question, I thought more helpful details could be provided because this situation requires greater consideration.

ND Mike is faced with a dilemma: He has both earthenware and gold vessels at his disposal and (in my opinion) wants to know whether one is more appropriate than the other and if so, why. This is not a matter of “should we gold plate the insides of clay chalices and ciboria?”.

Clearly, there is a preference on the part of the Holy See. Allowances exist for various reasons, but I doubt (once again, my opinion) the CDWDS would condone gold vessels gathering dust in a storage closet while less noble materials are being used.
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Under normal circumstances, one should not even use a clay or pottery chalice – they break and this violates the guidelines. Given the two choices, gold would be preferred.

During Lent I would suggest a silver of pewter chalice simply to provide a visual cue that this was a penitential season (since gold is usually seen as a celebratory metal/color).

Deacon Ed
 
In my church everything is glass. I get nervous that one day someone is going to get butterfingers!
 
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iamrefreshed:
In my church everything is glass. I get nervous that one day someone is going to get butterfingers!
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Ours is glass too … cheap glass at that - not crystal. What’s sad is, back in the sacristy are beautiful gold chalices and ciboriums. Why would a priest, if these beauiful vessels are THERE, choose cheap glass plates and goblets instead?
 
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lyoncoeur:
with clay, the glazing could get scratched or cracked and the precious blood could get into the clay…thus not properly or completely consumed
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This just isn’t true. The porosity of fired clay is very, very low. Nothing is going to seep into it; the glaze should never scratch.

Sorry, it’s the artist in me getting picky! And whoever said glazed pottery is not a precious substance–:eek:!!! A beautiful piece of pottery is finer than many gold and crystal goblets I’ve seen out there being used.

That being said, the rules are the rules, if chalices must be made of a certain material, that’s how it should be.
 
I can understand a requirement that a chalice be of a material that in no way can tarnish the sacred blood or be porous so that it can be lost but I don’t understand the argument about the chalice being breakable or not. Whether a chalice is breakble or not won’t stop the scared blood being lost if the chalice is dropped. The blood will be spilled even if the chalice does not break or am I missing something?
 
There is another thread on this but it seems to have come to a halt before my question got answered.

I can understand the requirement that a chalice be of a material (particularly inside) that in no way can tarnish the sacred blood or be porous so that it can be lost but I don’t understand the argument about the chalice being breakable or not. Why can’t the Chalice be glass, for example. Whether a chalice is breakble or not won’t stop the scared blood being lost if the chalice is dropped. The blood will be spilled even if the chalice does not break or am I missing something?
 
I have wondered about this, too. My belief is that the prohibition against breakable materials is to prevent cracking (and subsequently, leaking) more than it is to prevent shattering.

Or, it could just be that the breakability of a material is used a simple measurement of its worthiness.
 
But if a glass vessel (or some other breakable vessel) is dropped, it is not just a matter of wiping up all the wine or Precious Blood. You also have to pick up all the pieces of the broken item. That is not only time consuming but there is also a risk of injury.

Just disposing of the broken pieces would be a problem. Linens soaked with the Precious Blood and full of pieces of glass would be akward to manage. And anyone who has broken a drinking glass knows that you can sometimes find small shards of glass days later.
 
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