At offertory- no envelope- we pay via bank

[dixieagle]

I beg to differ. There is the act of good example that’s involved here. People growing up don’t see your debit or checking accounts and how much you’re donating if at all. Many people don’t think of contributing unless they see others do it.

I’m sure that the issue of donation/tithing comes up occasionally in EVERY parish. If the idea of contributing hasn’t crossed someone’s mind, they are being deliberately obtuse.

It is also no one else’s business “how much you’re donating if at all”, either.

 

[choy]

i think asking the people to put the envelopes in the baskets would be for these two things

1. seeing a fuller basket would encourage other people to give. most lukewarm Catholics will sit in the back so by the time the baskets get there, they will look pretty full
2. some sort of attendance checking. perhaps the parish pastor feels that some people may have formed an idea they can “buy” Sunday Mass attendance. some people may think as long as they give to the parish, they already fulfilled their Sunday obligation

 

[dixieagle]

I used to work as a chemist in the paper industry and the sooner we can wean people off of wasting paper, the better off the forests and the environment will be. People need to realize that paper, while “recyclable” requires a huge amount of energy and clean water to produce and even to recycle.

If electronic means are available, and you are still able to get your tax receipts, then I suggest that instead of paper that will go to waste.

Now paper for fine manuscripts (Bibles, breviaries, etc), at least is a non-wasteful use, the manuscripts will be around for a very long time (one hopes).

As we are supposed to be good stewards of God-given resources, this is an excellent point.

Folks, get used to it; before too long checks will be obsolete and most transactions will be handled electronically.

 

[ProVobis]

Folks, get used to it; before too long checks will be obsolete and most transactions will be handled electronically.

At the high end of the banking and Federal Reserve system, they already are. Electronic zeros have replaced most of the paper and ink coming out of the printing presses.

But I digress.

 

[Phemie]

As one who helps count the Sunday collection, I wish more people would utilize some kind of electronic payment. (I also wish people would quit folding their dollar bills into tiny little squares before dropping them into the basket, but that’s a subject for another thread.)

AMEN, BROTHER. And then there are those who think that without a foot of scotch tape their $2 coin will get lost – when those who routinely stick in 3 or 4 $20 bills don’t even seal their envelope.

 

[zab]

In previous years, I had thought about using Bill Pay on our online bank account to send in our tithe. But I resisted for the sake of participation in the Offertory trying to set a good example for the children. But this year our parish offered automatic withdrawal for our tithe and I finally gave in and sign up.

 

[johns58w]

Most parishes assign you a parishioner number that is printed on your envelopes. That is your “account number” used to track donations for the year. As long as you ensure this number is written somewhere on the checks you send, I don’t see any problem with this.

They may want to track which Mass people attend, and an envelope coming in the mail won’t tell them anything about your attendance habits. It is pastorally important that people are physically attending Mass, and sending money in the mail may send the message “we want to support you, but we don’t want to set foot in your church.” Which of course is not true! Maybe since your kids already donate, you can teach one of them to use an envelope with your number. That way you will show your family’s attendance and still be able to use your bank’s online bill-pay.

:thumbsup:My parish uses envelopes at Mass. I have been at some parishes where electronic offerings are commonplace. I see tithing either way is ok. As many have mentioned, electronic transactions are becoming more commonplace

Mainly at my parish, it is more focused on church attendance. Our pastor usually brings Mass attendance subject in our parish bulletin once a month.

Attendance is crucial for the parish records that a person is a faithful practicing Catholic when Sacraments become the issue. Matrimony, Baptism, First Holy Communion, Confirmation. WORD UP ON SACRAMENTAL PREP. PROOF OF MASS ATTENDANCE !!!

The parishes/dioceses have to deal with this all the time when people call or arrive at the parish or diocesan offices to prepare or sponsor at a particular Sacrament. Some Catholics walk out the door bitter at the Catholic church and go to another denomination,faith, agnostic,athiest.

Lack of catechesis in the past 40 years has led to this. We can’t always wait for Bishop___ or Father___ all the time with a checklist or advice on our faith practice. Our religious are extremely vital to our faith practice no question. Yet at the same time, we as Catholics have our responsibilities when we head back to the church parking lot to go about our business. This site here we learn about our faith. Videos, CD’s,pamphlets, books, internet, television,radio etc.

Electronic offerings I see are o.k. I would encourage parishes/dioceses to also focus more on proof of Mass attendance and to educate the parishoners on this. God Bless

 

[Ponyguy]

As one who helps count the Sunday collection, I wish more people would utilize some kind of electronic payment. (I also wish people would quit folding their dollar bills into tiny little squares before dropping them into the basket, but that’s a subject for another thread.)

I second that motion!
Trying to unfold a bunch of bills (usually singles… I can’t remember the last time I saw a folded-up sawbuck or twenty…) gets to be annoying. I’ve also had to unfold a dollar bill which was folded into a paper airplane… I wonder if it flew into the basket at the offertory?

Beginning just recently, we (ushers/“collection agents” ) at our parish have been required to transfer the collection from all the 4 to 6 collection baskets (we use the “collection basket with a 5 foot handle” method) into a “plastic collection bag;” then the “head usher” signs the bag (with witnesses) and the offering is brought to the altar during the offertory in a presentable wicker basket. After Mass, the “collection” gets whisked into a safe in the back of the sacristy. Apparently, a few parishes in the diocese were experiencing “unaccountable losses” of alleged donations, apparently at the sticky hands of perhaps a crooked usher or “offertory collector.” Now, all parishes in the diocese are required to do collections this way. A sad situation, indeed, when someone who is trusted to perform the collection at Mass stoops so low as to pilfer from that collection… I suspect that electronic donations will increase as time progresses, particularly in inner-city or higher-crime locations.

Our pastor, apparently like many others, has an electronic deposit system set up; I suspect that the bishop instituted the idea, or at least heartily seconded the motion, probably in response to those “financial irregularities” of a few parishes. The pastor, however, has not offered his preference of how to donate either way…

 

[Petergee]

i think asking the people to put the envelopes in the baskets would be for these two things

1. seeing a fuller basket would encourage other people to give. most lukewarm Catholics will sit in the back so by the time the baskets get there, they will look pretty full

Our parish priests have always strongly encouraged periodic bank debit contributions rather than envelopes. Much less administration time and cost for the parish. No chance of the money being stolen. And enables the parish to budget and plan its expenditures months or years ahead knowing what its guaranteed minimum income will be. It’s amazing how people who undertake to put in $20 a week forget to bring the money several weeks in a row, or “only put in $5 this week and I’ll make it up later” but they never do.

A couple of years ago the parish offered people who donate electronically, sets of coloured cards that they could put into the basket. The cards didn’t have their name or an amount of money, they were just so that they could put “something” into the basket. I thought it was a hilariously silly idea, but a few people actually like it because they didn’t like people thinking that they weren’t contributing. Personally I take absolutely no notice of what if anything other people put in. I know what is the right and just amount for me to put in, and I mind my own business about what others do and couldn’t care less if they’re silly enough to take in interest in how much I contribute.

As for “encourage other people to give”, what happened to “when you give alms, do not even let your left hand know what your right hand is doing”?

1. some sort of attendance checking.

Do you think modern priests have nothing better to do every week than to match up the numbers on the envelopes with names and go through the names checking if each parishioner is attending Mass?
Our parish takes a yearly census of Sunday Mass attendance.

perhaps the parish pastor feels that some people may have formed an idea they can “buy” Sunday Mass attendance. some people may think as long as they give to the parish, they already fulfilled their Sunday obligation

Come on, seriously would anyone actually do this? If they were Catholic enough to donate, surely they’d be at least Catholic enough to go to Mass?

 

[Phemie]

Come on, seriously would anyone actually do this? If they were Catholic enough to donate, surely they’d be at least Catholic enough to go to Mass?

While they may not think like that, I’ve noticed that our parish council thinks like that. They want a census to make sure they are getting their pound of flesh from every family regardless of whether or not they come to Mass. It was even spoken when I asked if our goal in doing a parish census was to try to evangelize and get people to start attending: “Pshaw, we don’t care if they show up as long as they contribute. We need money.”

 

[dconklin]

The Church is not required to track any individual donation. You can stuff $100’s into a plain envelope and drop it into the collection basket to your hearts content.

I am on staff at our parish. We do track all electronic and offertory envelope contribution.

 

[rick43235]

Beginning just recently, we (ushers/“collection agents” ) at our parish have been required to transfer the collection from all the 4 to 6 collection baskets (we use the “collection basket with a 5 foot handle” method) into a “plastic collection bag;” then the “head usher” signs the bag (with witnesses) and the offering is brought to the altar during the offertory in a presentable wicker basket. After Mass, the “collection” gets whisked into a safe in the back of the sacristy. Apparently, a few parishes in the diocese were experiencing “unaccountable losses” of alleged donations, apparently at the sticky hands of perhaps a crooked usher or “offertory collector.” Now, all parishes in the diocese are required to do collections this way. A sad situation, indeed, when someone who is trusted to perform the collection at Mass stoops so low as to pilfer from that collection…

I agree that it’s sad when you have to worry about the collection being stolen, but that’s the state of the world we live in.

As an accountant, it drives me crazy to see the lack of internal controls used to handle our parish collection. Just last week I found myself alone with the collection while the other counters ran to the office to see the secretary’s new baby. While I would never dream of doing such a thing, I could have easily helped myself to a few hundred dollars. What is especially irritating is the fact that, just a few months ago, one of the counters who left me alone with the money expressed “concern” that I (a non-Catholic who attends mass with my Catholic wife) was even trusted to help with the counting. Geez!

 

[Petergee]

While they may not think like that, I’ve noticed that our parish council thinks like that. They want a census to make sure they are getting their pound of flesh from every family regardless of whether or not they come to Mass. It was even spoken when I asked if our goal in doing a parish census was to try to evangelize and get people to start attending: “Pshaw, we don’t care if they show up as long as they contribute. We need money.”

IMHO the parish priest should kick the person who said that off the parish council (to give it its full name the Parish **Pastoral **Council) and even kick him off the Parish Finance Committee. Or at least give him some very serious re-education about what his role and the role of the parish and the Church is.

 

[Phemie]

IMHO the parish priest should kick the person who said that off the parish council (to give it its full name the Parish **Pastoral **Council) and even kick him off the Parish Finance Committee. Or at least give him some very serious re-education about what his role and the role of the parish and the Church is.

We don’t have an actual parish council, which is elected according to our constitution. The parish is run by coordinators who are each responsible for a sector (liturgy, finance, evangelization, maintenance, etc) of the parish. The pastor has set it up so that the parish can be run by the people when he’s not there. Unfortunately, the coordinators are made responsible for things they don’t have clue one about.

My baptismal preparation team is overseen by two women, one who just returned to the church in time to get on every committee and dream of ways to make money, the other a member of the choir who has never been involved in anything else in the church. Neither has a clue about what baptismal preparation is or what we are responsible for.

While it was supposed to make the parish run smoothly, it has simply created a bureaucratic nightmare where nothing can be done without many meetings and arguments.

The focus for the last 18 months has been money, money and more money. So greedy have they become that one coordinator has suggested that the annual missal that we order at a discount and sell at about $0.70 over cost now be sold at $6.70 over cost because “people will pay it”. Sure, let’s start gouging the elderly on fixed income who make up about 65% of those who attend and buy those missals – and put money in the collection plate. That’s what Christ asked us to do, isn’t it? Fleece the poor?

 

[ProVobis]

The focus for the last 18 months has been money, money and more money. So greedy have they become that one coordinator has suggested that the annual missal that we order at a discount and sell at about $0.70 over cost now be sold at $6.70 over cost because “people will pay it”. Sure, let’s start gouging the elderly on fixed income who make up about 65% of those who attend and buy those missals – and put money in the collection plate. That’s what Christ asked us to do, isn’t it? Fleece the poor?

The poor should form their own committee and buy these missals from the church committee “at a discount” too. Economics goes both ways.

 

[Petergee]

We don’t have an actual parish council, which is elected according to our constitution. The parish is run by coordinators who are each responsible for a sector (liturgy, finance, evangelization, maintenance, etc) of the parish. The pastor has set it up so that the parish can be run by the people when he’s not there. Unfortunately, the coordinators are made responsible for things they don’t have clue one about.

My baptismal preparation team is overseen by two women, one who just returned to the church in time to get on every committee and dream of ways to make money, the other a member of the choir who has never been involved in anything else in the church. Neither has a clue about what baptismal preparation is or what we are responsible for.

While it was supposed to make the parish run smoothly, it has simply created a bureaucratic nightmare where nothing can be done without many meetings and arguments.

The focus for the last 18 months has been money, money and more money. So greedy have they become that one coordinator has suggested that the annual missal that we order at a discount and sell at about $0.70 over cost now be sold at $6.70 over cost because “people will pay it”. Sure, let’s start gouging the elderly on fixed income who make up about 65% of those who attend and buy those missals – and put money in the collection plate. That’s what Christ asked us to do, isn’t it? Fleece the poor?

Sounds like it’s time to write a formal letter to the parish priest demanding charitably that he correct these irregularities. If this results in no action, send a similar letter to the Bishop.

 

[puzzleannie]

Question- I get the sense that our parish priest wants everyone to pay via envelope at the offertory. I have an automated electronic payment get sent from my bank acct to the church’s. Inevermiss a payment- and it saves on paper and processing.

Does anyone see a problem with this? Has anyone run into a problem with this?

.

have you had negative feedback from the parish? have they told you there is a problem? are you reading something that does not in fact exist? most pastors I know would be thrilled to have a number of parishioners on an automatic payment plan that guarantees at least some regular income. The idea of getting your kids in the habit of giving a small amount from their own allowance is a wonderful plan. You might have them use the envelopes provided for that purpose to reinforce the habit. Good parenting.

 

[Phemie]

Sounds like it’s time to write a formal letter to the parish priest demanding charitably that he correct these irregularities. If this results in no action, send a similar letter to the Bishop.

No need to write, I’m with him every day and have voiced my opinion. As far as he’s concerned he’s getting the parish ready to function without a pastor when he leaves in 14 months. I just pray that the day the bishop can’t appoint a pastor never comes because we will not be a parish any more but a business.

 

[puzzleannie]

I myself tend to make a lump sum offetory in the collection basket every couple of months. On the weeks when I’m not making an offering I feel a little guilty that those surrounding me may wonder why I’m not making a regular offering. I just keep telling myself that I’m making all the donations I can and remind myself that it’s not holy to seek recognition for that.

nobody around you is paying any attention
the only one who really cares how you pay is the person who counts the money and tracks your donation for tax and accounting purposes. It would be Christian to donate in the ways the parish provides, but if they need an education an newer modern easiser methods there is nothing wrong with providing it.

The Church is not required to track any individual donation. You can stuff $100’s into a plain envelope and drop it into the collection basket to your hearts content.

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wrong, the parish is required to track individual donations for tax purposes. They must give a receipt for every individual donation in cash or kind over $100 and they must provide a receipt for your total annual cash donation at the end of the year. I am speaking of the US. In addition, the parish must track donations by source and destination for accounting to the diocese, since they pay a tax there on the regular collection, and special collections must be separately accounted for. Obviously if you give an anonymous donation there is no way to give a receipt, nor for you to prove it on your own tax return. The parish is required to list on their accounting to the diocese amounts received by cash, check or other sources.

 

[puzzleannie]

The Church is not required to track any individual donation. You can stuff $100’s into a plain envelope and drop it into the collection basket to your hearts content.

.

wrong, the parish is required to track individual donations for tax purposes. They must give a receipt for every individual donation in cash or kind over $100 and they must provide a receipt for your total annual cash donation at the end of the year. I am speaking of the US. In addition, the parish must track donations by source and destination for accounting to the diocese, since they pay a tax there on the regular collection, and special collections must be separately accounted for. Obviously if you give an anonymous donation there is no way to give a receipt, nor for you to prove it on your own tax return. The parish is required to list on their accounting to the diocese amounts received by cash, check or other sources.