At papal Masses a prie-dieu is set up for Pope B16 to distribute communion on the tongue to kneeling people. Should parishes do likewise for priests'

[Lepanto]

At papal Masses a prie-dieu is set up for Pope Benedict XVI to distribute communion on the tongue to kneeling people. Should parishes do likewise for priests’ communion lines?

The faithful who wish to receive while standing and/or on the hand can still do so from the Extraordinary Ministers, yet this would make the traditional form of reception available for those who wish to exercise it.

Two ushers would be able to place into position or remove a prie-dieu in seconds. Assuming there is physical space for a prie-dieu (and most parishes would have space), why wouldn’t a priest offer this option for those who with to receive from him? They’d just be following the pope’s example, after all.

 

[IrishDude45]

I wish they would at least provide for people who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling, on the tongue. My parish has all but outlawed it, b/c of people “falling down, tripping, etc.” Priest has asked us “not to do it” “you’ll draw undo attention to yourself” etc.
Has anyone actually seen someone trip over a person kneeling to receive Holy Communion? Just curious.

Have communion rails and we wouldn’t even have this problem…
or maybe just have the first pew be for those who wish to receive kneeling?

Pax Vobiscum

 

[Cat]

I wish they would at least provide for people who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling, on the tongue. My parish has all but outlawed it, b/c of people “falling down, tripping, etc.” Priest has asked us “not to do it” “you’ll draw undo attention to yourself” etc.
Has anyone actually seen someone trip over a person kneeling to receive Holy Communion? Just curious.

Have communion rails and we wouldn’t even have this problem…
or maybe just have the first pew be for those who wish to receive kneeling?

I have tripped several times just walking up to receive Holy Communion. My balance lately is dreadful. I have a bad foot and a bad knee, on opposite legs, and a lot of times, after kneeling even for a short time while waiting my turn to go forward, I am totally off kilter and wobbly when I stand up. I always feel so embarrassed when I do one of those crazy near-falls just walking up to receive Holy Communion. It upsets me to think how much my body has declined in the last few years. I’m only 51. It’s heartbreaking and discouraging. I wonder how bad I will be when I’m 61.

I personally think Lepanto’s idea is a really good one. For someone like me, it is the “surprise” that often makes me stumble. If someone in front of me were to suddenly drop down into a kneeling position, it would definitely startle me and I would very likely have to grab hold of someone or something to stay upright. But if the prie dieu were set up in a certain place at every Mass, I would KNOW that it was there, and that everyone who wished to kneel to receive Jesus would be in THAT line, and I would feel more at ease about walking forward.

On Christmas Day, I attended Mass in a different parish in a church with very contemporary architecture, and one of the pews was set aside for those who wished to kneel and receive. The EMHC came to these people and distributed our Lord to them as they knelt. I thought that was a very nice way to do it.

Pax Vobiscum

 

[Cat]

I wish they would at least provide for people who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling, on the tongue. My parish has all but outlawed it, b/c of people “falling down, tripping, etc.” Priest has asked us “not to do it” “you’ll draw undo attention to yourself” etc.
Has anyone actually seen someone trip over a person kneeling to receive Holy Communion? Just curious.

Have communion rails and we wouldn’t even have this problem…
or maybe just have the first pew be for those who wish to receive kneeling?

Pax Vobiscum

I have tripped several times just walking up to receive Holy Communion. My balance lately is dreadful. I have a bad foot and a bad knee, on opposite legs, and a lot of times, after kneeling even for a short time while waiting my turn to go forward, I am totally off kilter and wobbly when I stand up. I always feel so embarrassed when I do one of those crazy near-falls just walking up to receive Holy Communion. It upsets me to think how much my body has declined in the last few years. I’m only 51. It’s heartbreaking and discouraging. I wonder how bad I will be when I’m 61.

I personally think Lepanto’s idea is a really good one. For someone like me, it is the “surprise” that often makes me stumble. If someone in front of me were to suddenly drop down into a kneeling position, it would definitely startle me and I would very likely have to grab hold of someone or something to stay upright. But if the prie dieu were set up in a certain place at every Mass, I would KNOW that it was there, and that everyone who wished to kneel to receive Jesus would be in THAT line, and I would feel more at ease about walking forward.

On Christmas Day, I attended Mass in a different parish in a church with very contemporary architecture, and one of the pews was set aside for those who wished to kneel and receive. The EMHC came to these people and distributed our Lord to them as they knelt. I thought that was a very nice way to do it.

 

[benedictgal]

I wish they would at least provide for people who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling, on the tongue. My parish has all but outlawed it, b/c of people “falling down, tripping, etc.” Priest has asked us “not to do it” “you’ll draw undo attention to yourself” etc.
Has anyone actually seen someone trip over a person kneeling to receive Holy Communion? Just curious.

Have communion rails and we wouldn’t even have this problem…
or maybe just have the first pew be for those who wish to receive kneeling?

Pax Vobiscum

That is sad, especially since the priest does not have the right to tell the faithful that they cannot exercise their legitimate option of receiving Holy Communion kneeling. Inasmuch as standing is the norm in the United States, a priest cannot refuse Holy Communion nor deem a person disobedient because they choose to exercise the perfectly legitimate option of kneeling. The Holy See spoke clearly on this matter in both 2002 and 2003.

The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.

In 2003, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, the same Curial office that wrote the 2002 letter, issued this statement, which reads in part that:

As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear.

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: “…while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion”.

Now, regarding the OP, I think that it is a great idea for those churches where the altar rail was removed. However, in those churches where the altar rail still exists, it would be great to restore its use. There are several churches in my diocese that have retained the altar rail. Would that these would be used once more.

 

[maryj]

I wish they would at least provide for people who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling, on the tongue. My parish has all but outlawed it, b/c of people “falling down, tripping, etc.” Priest has asked us “not to do it” “you’ll draw undo attention to yourself” etc.
Has anyone actually seen someone trip over a person kneeling to receive Holy Communion? Just curious.

Have communion rails and we wouldn’t even have this problem…
or maybe just have the first pew be for those who wish to receive kneeling?

Pax Vobiscum

I’ve had someone trip over me as I’ve genuflected while entering a pew. I am very careful to be aware of anyone walking closely behind me.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Are you asking a question, as the title of this thread suggests, or are you making a statement about your own preferences?

 

[brigid12]

At papal Masses a prie-dieu is set up for Pope Benedict XVI to distribute communion on the tongue to kneeling people. Should parishes do likewise for priests’ communion lines?

The faithful who wish to receive while standing and/or on the hand can still do so from the Extraordinary Ministers, yet this would make the traditional form of reception available for those who wish to exercise it.

Two ushers would be able to place into position or remove a prie-dieu in seconds. Assuming there is physical space for a prie-dieu (and most parishes would have space), why wouldn’t a priest offer this option for those who with to receive from him? They’d just be following the pope’s example, after all.

I’d love it! I doubt it would happen in most parishes in this area, tho’.

 

[LilyM]

That is sad, especially since the priest does not have the right to tell the faithful that they cannot exercise their legitimate option of receiving Holy Communion kneeling. Inasmuch as standing is the norm in the United States, a priest cannot refuse Holy Communion nor deem a person disobedient because they choose to exercise the perfectly legitimate option of kneeling. The Holy See spoke clearly on this matter in both 2002 and 2003.

In 2003, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, the same Curial office that wrote the 2002 letter, issued this statement, which reads in part that:

It’s only a partial view you’ve presented here. While it is true that faithful who kneel for communion are not to be refused, the priest CAN counsel them in such cases after Mass.

Why he would have this right to counsel them about their choice of posture unless, in certain situations, for pastoral reasons, parishes were permitted to request parishioners to receive standing? It’s not like he’d do so simply to say ‘your posture is A-OK, keep going’, no?

 

[muffinmojo]

I and half a dozen others kneel in the regular line at my parish every sunday. There is no problem. You don’t need kneelers or rails or pews, just knees. Honestly…barring circumstances like the above poster, the vast majority of parishioners have no excuse for tripping, other than that they are 1) not paying attention 2) hurrying far too much 3) standing too close to someone.

 

[Phemie]

I and half a dozen others kneel in the regular line at my parish every sunday. There is no problem. You don’t need kneelers or rails or pews, just knees. Honestly…barring circumstances like the above poster, the vast majority of parishioners have no excuse for tripping, other than that they are 1) not paying attention 2) hurrying far too much 3) standing too close to someone.

We have a few who kneel to receive in our parish, a few more who don’t kneel but receive on the tongue. Everyone takes it in stride and I’ve yet to see someone trip. IMHO, if you trip over the person who kneels you were standing way too close to him/her to begin with.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

We have a few who kneel to receive in our parish, a few more who don’t kneel but receive on the tongue. Everyone takes it in stride and I’ve yet to see someone trip. IMHO, if you trip over the person who kneels you were standing way too close to him/her to begin with.

…or you can’t see too well, or you were distracted for a few seconds. Would you think it hazardous if someone dropped to their knees in any other line? Many people are not aware that there is an option, so why would they expect this on a communion line?

Also, it disrupts the Communion procession and calls attention to the communicant, but tripping is the most common problem, if there are no provisions.

Lux

 

[Cat]

We have a few who kneel to receive in our parish, a few more who don’t kneel but receive on the tongue. Everyone takes it in stride and I’ve yet to see someone trip. IMHO, if you trip over the person who kneels you were standing way too close to him/her to begin with.

No, this is not necessarily true. For people with balance problems, any little irregularity, including a small piece of paper on the floor, or a tiny bump, can cause you to lose your balance and trip. I know it sounds bizarre to those of you who still run around the block every day, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been walking along at work or home and been tripped up by something that happens unexpectedly, like a box on the floor. My feet and knees just don’t stand up the way they used to.

There is another woman who works with me who has the exact same foot injury that I have, and she’s ten years younger than I am. A few weeks ago, she made a request in one of the meetings that all the boxes that have been unpacked be placed in a certain place in the lab while waiting to be picked up. She said that she has tripped over the boxes many times when they’re just placed on the floor by the wall. And we’re talking SMALL boxes here (less than a foot square), not the big 'uns!

I think that the glasses that many of us wear today make the problem worse. I wear those graduated lenses. I see just fine through the top, but the bottom part is made for reading, so everything is a blur. I don’t walk down stairs very often, but when I do, it’s so funny because I have to bend my head and look down through the TOP of my glasses to make sure I’m clear to walk! sometimes wonder if the old-fashioned bifocals were the best idea after all.

The Bible says that the most important thing is charity. (I Corinthians 13.) I think it works both directions: those who kneel need to be very aware and solicitous of their brothers and sisters all around them and accomodating of special needs or limitations, and at the same time, those of us who do not kneel need to be sympathetic to those who feel called to kneel. That’s why I think Lepanto’s idea is a good one. Everyone is served. It’s the essence of Chrisitanity–charity for all. I really like it and hope parishes will implement the idea. I know there is a need for unity, but this is just practical, like separate bathrooms for men and ladies.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Two ushers would be able to place into position or remove a prie-dieu in seconds. Assuming there is physical space for a prie-dieu (and most parishes would have space), why wouldn’t a priest offer this option for those who with to receive from him? They’d just be following the pope’s example, after all.

The Pope offers this option because kneeling is his preference. I’m sure those priests who prefer the communicant to kneel have made provisions. If the priest prefers the standing posture, is very tall, or has a back problem, and there is not much request for kneeling, he certainly will not offer this option. Some pew space could be reserved and an EMHC could distribute to that section. Most parishes have many more people who wish to receive from the priest, than wish or are able to receive kneeling. The common good of the faithful does not warrent the priest to be given this station.

Perhaps those who wish this option could offer to buy the prie-dieu, become an EMHC, get some fellow parishioners to serve and place and remove it during every Mass, and do a real service for their fellow parishioners.

These options are practical for parishes where a large number wish to receive kneeling, but usually this is not the case,

Lux

 

[pnewton]

I would not object to such a device, although I do not see why some one can not just kneel if that is what they wish to do. I do not see why some kneeler is required. We have some that do kneel occassionally and it has never appeared showy or caused anyone to trip. We also have a place for the priest to walk and deliver communion to those who can not walk up and receive it. There is no disruption at all.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I agree that kneeling doesn’t usually cause a problem, but it does often enough when it is unexpcted to try to discourage it in the middle of the procession. If there are no provisions, it is better to attempt this at the end of the line.

Lux

 

[Brendan]

…or you can’t see too well, or you were distracted for a few seconds. Would you think it hazardous if someone dropped to their knees in any other line? Many people are not aware that there is an option, so why would they expect this on a communion line?

Also, it disrupts the Communion procession and calls attention to the communicant, but tripping is the most common problem, if there are no provisions.

Lux

And the same is true if a small child who was in front of the parent now appears behind the parent.

I have seen that happen too. Should priests offer counsel to every parent who brings a small child with them?

 

[Lepanto]

I think some are missing the point of this thread. As stated in the original post, there would be a separate line with the prie-dieu for those people who want to kneel. Therefore, there should NOT be any surprises in that line.

I remember using communion rails in my youth. (Remember those?) During those years everyone except the elderly and infirm used them and I can’t remember anybody tripping.

If you don’t feel confident that you can kneel at a prie-dieu and stand back up without incident, you should use the “standing only” lines. It’s your choice. Problem solved.

I think a more pertinent trajectory for this thread is: how would the faithful respond if the priest were to only distribute communion at a prie-dieu, in imitation of the practice of Benedict XVI? Would people support his decision or would they take offense for some reason?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

And the same is true if a small child who was in front of the parent now appears behind the parent.

I have seen that happen too. Should priests offer counsel to every parent who brings a small child with them?

Please cite the norm which would suggest this.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I think some are missing the point. As stated in the original post, there would be a separate line with the prie-dieu for those people who want to kneel. Therefore, there should NOT be any surprises in that line.

I think a more pertinent trajectory for this thread is: how would the faithful respond if the priest were to only distribute communion at a prie-dieu, in imitation of the practice of Benedict XVI?

Hi again.
Did you see my post?
The Pope offers this option because kneeling is his preference. I’m sure those priests who prefer the communicant to kneel have made provisions. If the priest prefers the standing posture, is very tall, or has a back problem, and there is not much request for kneeling, he certainly will not offer this option. Some pew space could be reserved and an EMHC could distribute to that section. Most parishes have many more people who wish to receive from the priest, than wish or are able to receive kneeling. The common good of the faithful does not warrent the priest to be given this station.

Perhaps those who wish this option could offer to buy the prie-dieu, become an EMHC, get some fellow parishioners to serve and place and remove it during every Mass, and do a real service for their fellow parishioners.

Your suggestion is practical for parishes where a large number wish to receive kneeling, and the priest is willing to take that station, but usually this is not the case,

Lux