At what point do we call it quits?

[TimothyH]

Don’t give up and you won’t be sent there…How’s that for simplicity…

Peace
James

But we have to remember that we are human. And Jesus reminds us, “apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15:5)

Jesus fasted for 40 days and prayed all night, so hard that he sweat blood. But we are not Jesus. Even Peter fell asleep when asked to keep watch for one hour, then he denied three times the man he had previously confessed as the Christ. Then he wept. He was beat down pretty bad and look what he became.

I’ll betcha Bohm Bawerk is right were he needs to be. Exhausted. Beat down. Ready to quit. That’s when God can begin to use you. Everyone wants the joy of the ressurection but they don’t want to drink Christ’s bitter cup. You gotta go into the tomb before you can rise in the ressurection.

If God is leading the OP into the darkness of the tomb, it might just be a great gift.

-Tim-

 

[Stuart5]

I can tell what I have learned about Him.

He is Holy. As we strive to follow His example in all things you will start to see His wonderful anonymous signs.

Become His servant and you will experience Him … there is a cost … you need to put yourself … last

 

[JRKH]

But we have to remember that we are human. And Jesus reminds us, “apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15:5)

Jesus fasted for 40 days and prayed all night, so hard that he sweat blood. But we are not Jesus. Even Peter fell asleep when asked to keep watch for one hour, then he denied three times the man he had previously confessed as the Christ. Then he wept. He was beat down pretty bad and look what he became.

I’ll betcha Bohm Bawerk is right were he needs to be. Exhausted. Beat down. Ready to quit. That’s when God can begin to use you. Everyone wants the joy of the resurrection but they don’t want to drink Christ’s bitter cup. You gotta go into the tomb before you can rise in the resurrection.

If God is leading the OP into the darkness of the tomb, it might just be a great gift.

Tim,
You are quite correct in much of what you say here…but the fact remains that if God IS to use us, we must remain available for His use…That means we must not “quit”.

Peace
James
-Tim-

 

[stevekehl]

Jacob fought with God and was blessed by Him as a result (Genesis 32:28).

For me, and I’m sure it is with others, aren’t so lucky. I think I’ve been like Jacob for a while and I haven’t really seen anything tangible. I’m exhausted and knackered, to say the least. At what point do we just call it quits and give up on prayer/spirituality?

Don’t forget that Jacob’s hip was torn out of joint and he was permanently damaged because of it. If you struggle against God, He will let you have your way, but be prepared for the consequences. I would ask you to think about what you are praying for and is it line with God’s will. I once thought about selling my home and moving to another city, but my efforts to spruce up the house ended in frustration and failure. After a week of it I said “Lord, I can take a hint.” If what you are seeking is in line with God’s will you have to trust His timing and plan. I know it can be tough, tiresome, frustrating all that. Remember, Paul called our troubles light and momentary compared to the glories of heaven. Keep on trying.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Don’t forget that Jacob’s hip was torn out of joint and he was permanently damaged because of it. If you struggle against God, He will let you have your way, but be prepared for the consequences.

Actually, God damaged Jacob’s hip to teach Jacob humility. And I wouldn’t even use the word “damage” since it’s a tad bit too extreme. Jacob walked with a limp, and that was to serve as a reminder to him of who exactly is boss (namely, God).

One user here said I was like Jacob, and I think that analysis is correct. This situation I’ve dealt with has definitely taught me gratitude and humility, but it’s gone on for way too long now. I’ve learned my lesson not to be a non-believer, so I hope God is listening and He just restores things back to the way they used to be.

I would ask you to think about what you are praying for and is it line with God’s will. I once thought about selling my home and moving to another city, but my efforts to spruce up the house ended in frustration and failure. After a week of it I said “Lord, I can take a hint.” If what you are seeking is in line with God’s will you have to trust His timing and plan. I know it can be tough, tiresome, frustrating all that. Remember, Paul called our troubles light and momentary compared to the glories of heaven. Keep on trying.

Let’s just hope there’s a reason behind this. If there is, then I’ll be content to a certain degree. I would be more traumitized if I later found out that what’s happening had nothing to do with God. It would be very very embarrassing

 

[soma]

To make Our Lord laugh tell him your plans. There is no need to ask when it is already known, therefore we only need to pay attention. Silence your mind and your will hear God speak. There is no need to speak to Him/Her unless you are lonely. Peace be with you.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I have 2 thoughts for you.

The first, I don’t remember who said it, is-

Prayer is not asking for what you want, it’s asking to be changed in ways you can’t imagine.

The second is a quote from Dr. Alber Schweitzer.

The hardest thing I have ever had to do is follow the guidance I prayed for.

OK, I lied- 3 thoughts-
the Principle & Foundation of the Spritiual Exercises of St. Ignatius, my empases added

Man is created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save his soul.

And the other things on the face of the earth are created for man and that they may help him in prosecuting the end for which he is created.

From this it follows that man is to use them as much as they help him on to his end, and ought to rid himself of them so far as they hinder him as to it.

For this it is necessary to make ourselves indifferent to all created things in all that is allowed to the choice of our free will and is not prohibited to it; so that, on our part, we want not health rather than sickness, riches rather than poverty, honor rather than dishonor, long rather than short life, and so in all the rest; desiring and choosing only what is most conducive for us to the end for which we are created.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

After you die!

Until then, there is always hope. Always.

And, keep in mind that God may answer our prayers with a NO. There is never any guarantee that what we ask God for is either good for us, or that it is what we really need.

I look at my wife, who was paralysed at the age of 19, and left with a severe chronic pain problem. We married when she was 30, and she was working as a teacher, and as a Community Activist on the behalf of the physically disabled…

She went on to found a door-to-door transportation program for frail elderly and disabled in Santa Barbara, CA, and ran it for several years.

She has had 3 miscarriages, after extreme efforts to become pregnant (including 3 surgeries). She has an implanted pain pump, which sends Dilaudid directly into her spinal canal. She has to take Morphine for break through pain, AND she has to utilize a power wheelchair because she literally burned out her shoulders pushing a manual chair.

We regularly went camping (in a tent), and I would get her up up and down some pretty extreme mountain trails (with help from friends when necessary). We have traveled all over the world, and she has enjoyed life more than most able bodied people do. She wrecked 5 wheelchairs with her activities (Everest & Jennings honored their guarantee on their wheelchair frames, but they did ask her just HOW she was bending and breaking those frames).

She has had a total of 24 major surgeries since her original injury, and 9 minor ones. She has spent almost 5 years in and out of hospitals and physical rehabilitation centers since we were married. There is not a single moment of her life when she does not experience severe pain…

She was asked by a physician, “Why do you push yourself, when you know that it will hurt? Why don’t you just take it easy?”

Her response was, “I hurt if I stay in bed, and I hurt if I am active. I refuse to give up on life. I plan to enjoy life, as much as possible, regardless of how much pain I may endure, for as long as i possibly can.” She is STILL active, at the age of 63.

She is also a VERY devout Catholic, volunteers at our Parish and also is a lector and sings with the Choir. She also sews (she is fantastic, she has won “Best of Show” prizes at the Western Idaho State Fair), gardens and loves to visit people.

God may put obstacles in your life. But, it is up to YOU what you choose to make of your life. My wife is a constant inspiration to me. I do not know if i could have retained my faith, if everything she has been through had happened to me. In her case, if anything, it has STRENGTHENED her faith.

I thank God each and every day for the fact that she was a teacher of each of my daughters, and that THEY are the ones that encouraged me to ask her out. They also asked her to adopt them, after our marriage, so she could be their REAL mother both in fact and legally!

Instead of feeling like you are at the end of your rope, USE your difficulties to help you and others.

 

[tonydavies]

Bohm,

In child like trust give your self up to our loving Father. You are tired and exhausted from your spiritual efforts and you feel that you are reaching a point of some sort where you feel you cannot continue. There is nothing wrong with letting God our loving Father know you are exhausted from it all. But is it that you feel you cannot maintain to live in sanctifying grace? I do not know your situation so I’m only guessing.

Our Lord Jesus also said come to him all who are exhausted and he will give us rest.

Do you have a relationship with the Holy Spirit? Do you know you are his temple? He dwells in you and sees hears knows all that you have done. Turn to him who dwells in you. It’s not that he doesn’t know what you are experiencing, its that he wants you to be aware that He is aware of all since he does dwell in you.

God’s blessings be with you

 

[stevekehl]

This devotional was on my e-Sword today, it may be useful to you.

July 2

God Promising a Unique King
A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. He will not fail nor be discouraged, till He has established justice in the earth. (Isa_42:2-3)
Again, the promises of God cascade forth, one upon another: “He will not break . . . He will not quench . . . He will bring forth . . . He will not fail.” This set of four promises confirms a unique King for the people of God. His uniqueness is seen in how He would deal with bruised reeds and smoking flaxes, as well as in the justice He would eventually establish upon the earth.
Many times, people are like bruised reeds. God has created humanity to be innately vulnerable, like reeds that grow by the river. “As for man, his days are like grass; As a flower of the field, so he flourishes. For the wind passes over it, and it is gone, And its place remembers it no more” (Psa_103:15-16). At best, reeds are not strong. When they are bruised, they hang over limp and helpless. It is easy for an insensitive person to break a “human bruised reed” in half, virtually destroying that life. Jesus, the unique King, does not do that. “A bruised reed He will not break.” The Lord Jesus can take bruised reeds and turn them into mighty spiritual trees. “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted . . . to console those who mourn in Zion, to give them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they may be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified” (Isa_61:1, Isa_61:3).
At other times, people are like smoking flax. Their spiritual fire of hope or zeal is flickering, ready to burn out. A rough or blustering person can easily extinguish the meager spark that remains. Once again, Jesus is unique. He can gently minister to that flickering wick, even fueling it back into a spiritual blaze. The disillusioned disciples on the road to Emmaus experienced that. "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us? " (Luk_24:32).
Ultimately, His uniqueness shall be demonstrated when He sets up His kingdom on earth. Then, after man has brought forth injustice after injustice, true justice will be established throughout this world. “He will not fail nor be discouraged, till He has established justice in the earth.”
Lord Jesus, I honor You as my unique King. No one but You could have dealt with my heart when I was the bruised reed and the smoking flax. No one but You can properly reverse the injustices that I have both perpetrated and endured. I bow to You, asking that You make me more like You, in Your name, Amen.

By the way Genesis 32:25 says Jacob’s hip was out or joint, or dislocated. That takes a lot of force and it seriously damages the joint. I hope you are making progress in your struggles, God Bless.

 

[LJL5]

Bohm,

It seems to me that you have been rgiven some really heartfelt and thoughtful advice and consideration. However, I do not sense that you are receiving this advice with an open heart or an open mind. As much as I cringe at the word “vomit” that a fellow member used, it is apt and correct! Don’t be wishy washy about this return to faith. If you are feeling like you’ve suffered enough , I suggest you review Father Serpa’s reflection on Our Lord’s Passion. Here it is in case you’ve missed it elsewhere:

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
Reflection on the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ +

The agony in the garden was really the agony in His mind. He suffered the passion in His mind before He suffered it in His body—to the point of actually affecting the latter by sweating blood. But from then on, it was His bodily suffering that affected His mental suffering.

At the base of all His suffering was the one thing that human beings dread the most: rejection. He was betrayed by Judas, denied by Peter and abandoned by all the rest of His Apostles; those He had hand picked as His closest intimates. He was most rejected by those who put Him to death. They not only wanted Him dead, they wanted Him to suffer. They not only considered Him to be worth nothing, they considered Him to be worth minus nothing! This significance was not lost on Him. He felt fully the rejection as each physical agony reminded Him.

So we thank Him for joining us on our human journey and actually choosing to experience what we fear the most.

We thank Him for enduring the arrest and the cruelty of the guards and the Sanhedrin. We thank Him for enduring the cruelty of Pilate who allowed Him to be executed rather than risk his own political ruin—and for the cruelty of Herod who wanted to be entertained by having Him work a miracle. We thank Him for all the time He spent satisfying their preoccupation with themselves, just delaying His ultimate death. We thank Him for the anxiety of that night in a cell.

The next morning He was brutally scourged with such intensity and violence that He became as an aged man in a matter of minutes. His multiple wounds bloodied His entire body. The loss of so much blood not only severely weakened Him; it also caused a severe, throbbing headache that remained with Him for the duration.

We thank Him for this and for the mockery He received when they put a purple cloth on His shoulders and pushed a crown of thorns down into His head which intensified His headache. They blindfolded Him and slapped Him, insisting that He ‘prophesy’ who had hit Him. They spat on Him and beat Him.

He stood at the praetorium in utter disgrace according to the attitude of the crowd—while in reality, He stood in utter glory: almighty God, being present to every person who has ever suffered rejection, joining them in their moment of pain. It was there that He was sentenced to death by crucifixion. Physically, He was utterly miserable. He revealed to St. Bernard that carrying the cross was His most painful agony. He was so weak, He could hardly walk. Nauseous and thirsty, He found the weight of the cross on His shoulder almost unbearable. It most likely dislocated His shoulder. It is not surprising that He fell down on the stone streets that were filthy with animal dung—with the cross on top of Him. And He got up each time.

It was only with the help of Simon of Cyrene that He made it to the top of Calvary. There they drove the nails into the carpal tunnels of His hands, causing pain throughout His upper body. The nail in His feet registered great pain through all the sensitive nerves there. When the cross was righted, His up-stretched arms squeezed His lungs and He began to pant for lack of oxygen. So He had to push down on His crucified feet to push His body up in order to fill His lungs with air. This took great effort because He was so weak. Yet He managed to maintain such effort for three hours of agony which increased gradually as He became weaker moment by moment.

By the end of the third hour, His agony was at its peak. He had come to the point where His strength simply gave out and He suffocated. In this eternal moment as He died, He gave us His life. Transcending time, this moment of divine love is present to us in the tabernacles of the world.

Thank you, Lord. We adore you O Christ and we praise you. By your holy cross, you have redeemed the world.

I am sure if you spend some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament with this reflection in mind, you may find answers to your questions, open your mind and your heart to the Truth!

 

[thistle]

Jacob fought with God and was blessed by Him as a result (Genesis 32:28).

For me, and I’m sure it is with others, aren’t so lucky. I think I’ve been like Jacob for a while and I haven’t really seen anything tangible. I’m exhausted and knackered, to say the least. At what point do we just call it quits and give up on prayer/spirituality?

He didn’t fight with God. He fought with an angel.

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 24. A man, &c. This was an angel in human shape, as we learn from Osee xii. 4. He is called God, ver. 28 and 30, because he represented the person of the Son of God. This wrestling, in which Jacob, assisted by God, was a match for an angel, was so ordered, (Ver. 28.) that he might learn by this experiment of the divine assistance, that neither Esau, nor any other man, should have power to hurt him. It was also spiritual, as appeareth by his earnest prayer, urging, and at last obtaining the angel’s blessing. (Challoner) — The father will not refuse a good gift to those who ask him with fervour and humility. Jacob had before set us an excellent pattern how to pray, placing his confidence in God, and distrusting himself, ver. 9, &c. (Haydock) — It is not certain, whether Jacob remained alone on the northern or on the southern banks of Jaboc. (Calmet)

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

He didn’t fight with God. He fought with an angel.

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 24. A man, &c. This was an angel in human shape, as we learn from Osee xii. 4. He is called God, ver. 28 and 30, because he represented the person of the Son of God. This wrestling, in which Jacob, assisted by God, was a match for an angel, was so ordered, (Ver. 28.) that he might learn by this experiment of the divine assistance, that neither Esau, nor any other man, should have power to hurt him. It was also spiritual, as appeareth by his earnest prayer, urging, and at last obtaining the angel’s blessing. (Challoner) — The father will not refuse a good gift to those who ask him with fervour and humility. Jacob had before set us an excellent pattern how to pray, placing his confidence in God, and distrusting himself, ver. 9, &c. (Haydock) — It is not certain, whether Jacob remained alone on the northern or on the southern banks of Jaboc. (Calmet)

He fought with an angel, but many biblical scholars believe that the angel was Jesus “Pre-Incarnate”, or in short, Christophanie. Which is why Jacob was renamed “Israel”: “persevere with God”. “El” is a Hebrew term that often denotes God - after all, there is Elohim (God), Elijah (“Yahweh is my God”), Elizabeth (“God’s promise”), and so forth.

 

[nina13_p]

There are many so-called Biblical scholars that say many things. Notice the only angel names we know from the scripture are “Raphael”, “Michael” and “Gabriel” – all ending with the El of which you spoke. Christophanie? Jesus “Pre-Incarnate”? Please list your sources for these concepts because I don’t think they are theological truths taught by the Church and we are bound only to the teachings of the Church in matters of Faith and Morals.

I’m not exactly sure what it is you are calling it “quits” on, but you might limit the sources of your search to authentic Catholic teaching of the church.

Peace.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

“Giving up” is called ‘cowardice’. If you make the choice, do not be surprised when God lacks lenience. He will vomit you out of His mouth.

And you know what? I don’t care.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

There are many so-called Biblical scholars that say many things. Notice the only angel names we know from the scripture are “Raphael”, “Michael” and “Gabriel” – all ending with the El of which you spoke. Christophanie? Jesus “Pre-Incarnate”? Please list your sources for these concepts because I don’t think they are theological truths taught by the Church and we are bound only to the teachings of the Church in matters of Faith and Morals.

I’m not exactly sure what it is you are calling it “quits” on, but you might limit the sources of your search to authentic Catholic teaching of the church.

Peace.

Hello,

My apologies . You are probably right. I glanced at a few sources today and it seems that Jacob did wrestle with an angel, and the angel’s name was probably “Peniel”. I never noticed that Michael, Raphael and Gabriel all had “el” as a suffix, so I thank you for pointing that out.

My apologies once again for the mistake. Here’s one link to someone who shared a similar view to my previous thought: answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110219091144AA56St6 (Chosen as Best Answer).

 

[Robert_Sock]

I seldom pray with words or “prayers.” But instead I try to keep my mind focused on God and religion all the day long. This leads to spirituality. I wish you could come visit inside my mind and see what incredible spiritual experiences I sometimes feel!

 

[Luke1983]

Jacob fought with God and was blessed by Him as a result (Genesis 32:28).

For me, and I’m sure it is with others, aren’t so lucky. I think I’ve been like Jacob for a while and I haven’t really seen anything tangible. I’m exhausted and knackered, to say the least. At what point do we just call it quits and give up on prayer/spirituality?

I am as well. None of my prayers have been answered. Things have gone from bad to worse. Nothing outside/inside has changed.

I’m still fighting though.

Even, if not especially the saints went through dark times. Don’t quit.

After the darkness ya must come out the light - Bob Marley.

@LJL5 thanks that was great.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

I am as well. None of my prayers have been answered. Things have gone from bad to worse. Nothing outside/inside has changed.

I’m still fighting though.

Even, if not especially the saints went through dark times. Don’t quit.

After the darkness ya must come out the light - Bob Marley.

@LJL5 thanks that was great.

Hello,

Nice to see someone going through the Hell I’m going through . I have been fighting this for an entire year, and I have pretty much decided I’ve given up. It’s very ironic I’m in this position, as ever since I was a child, I was not a prayerful person. I did not believe in prayer and was what you would call a “go-getter”. This situation is one that requires prayer unfortunately, and it’s impossible to be solved. I’m doing a 54-day rosary novena, but I’m not expecting anything miraculous to happen (I’ve said virtually every single prayer you could possibly dream of). I’ve given up on God and I think He enjoys putting me through this Hell. So much for an omnibenevolent entity; reminds me of the remark St. Therese made - “If this is how You treat those close to You, no wonder You have so few friends”.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It’s very ironic I’m in this position, as ever since I was a child, I was not a prayerful person. I did not believe in prayer and* was what you would call a “go-getter”*. This situation is one that requires prayer unfortunately, and it’s impossible to be solved. I’m doing a 54-day rosary novena, but I’m not expecting anything miraculous to happen (I’ve said virtually every single prayer you could possibly dream of). I’ve given up on God and I think He enjoys putting me through this Hell. So much for an omnibenevolent entity; reminds me of the remark St. Therese made - “If this is how You treat those close to You, no wonder You have so few friends”.

I don’t think this is an ironic situation at all. It makes sense that God wants to do things on His terms and not yours in order to make you more holy. It sounds like you are using prayer to bribe Him and get what you want. It is not how it works. He is not your servant. The situation you are in is very common. God often goes with ‘tough love’ approach to soften hardened hearts and to free a person of pride. I have a feeling this is your problem. I suggest (again) you seek spiritual direction and figure out what it means to really pray. (Clue: Your will be done)