At what point does arguing faith become sinful?

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vocatio

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I have been a member of another forum that initially helped us on our conversion…my reversion. However, the forum has recently taken a sharp turn for the worst… It was supposed to be a support board for folks from our previous faith that converted to Catholicism. I’ve tried to tone it down since they are now on constant debate status with an active member from our former faith who is bending over backwards to prove Catholicism wrong. Though the person running the board is quite capable of debating effectively, it’s beginning to make us natious because we feel it’s setting a bad example for others. I also know first handedly that initially reading Karl Keatings book actually hurt me rather that helped me because it through in other things that I wasn’t prepared to deal with all the while I was being proselytized by my then girlfriend’s family who are church leaders in that group. I stumbled because like many I was not taught the true faith on Catholicism completely. I was very confused and thought I knew a lot back then. I even planned at returning to the seminary prior to marrying this woman. Fast forward…17 years later…we’re all Catholic…a pray come true once I realized how grave a mistake I made.

So…at what point does debating with other faith tradition folks does sin become a danger? I may expand my questoins as I come to a better understanding of this.
 
vocatio said:
So…at what point does debating with other faith tradition folks does sin become a danger? I may expand my questoins as I come to a better understanding of this.
Click to expand...
I (personally) think that the danger of committing sin…becomes real when we cease to be gracious and polite about the issues at hand. There are ways to say things, and then there are ways to say things. By that I mean…simply that there is a right way and a wrong way.

I have had numerous discussions with numerous people of other faiths…and I have successfully “debunked” every “myth” that they have thrown at me. It all boils down to not “arguing” loudly and it also requires civility on your part. I realize that in a forum that can be difficult… but you have to avoid the traps. Always think an answer through before posting it, and make sure you have your facts correct.

I am hardly what one would consider a “Scholar” when it comes to the Bible, yet I find that I can hold my own and even change minds regarding the Catholic Church…by being polite and not operating at their level…whatever that may be.

I found a book that was worth a fortune…and it only cost me a few dollars in a Catholic book store… It was called the One Minute Apologist…and it contained the Catholic response to more than 56 questions/allegations that non-Catholics make about the Church and its theology.👍 You might see if you can locate it.

Just stay cool, and don’t let them get your goat. Remember, he who shouts the loudest does not win…in fact they lose.

I tried to send you a PM…but it says you opted out of them, so I will tell you what I was going to say out in the open:

There is a pattern of “play” in many forums. Some people will use different styles and manners, and some will try to effect a methodology…such as make allegations that are unsound or without substance. Some will never answer questions except with another question, yet will expect you to answer their questions. Others will just ignore anything you say. If you “play” by their rules…it gets real interesting… 😃
 
Thank you for expressing your concern which others of us feel when we read some of the posts. I believe that it becomes sinful when others are answered disrespectfully, abruptly, insensitvly and rudely. That is when the discussion is no longer Christian. I agree that one would hope that those managing the forums might provide some correction where posts follow that destructive path.

“Anyone who says ‘I love God’, and hates his brother is a liar, since a person who does not love the brother that he can see, cannot love God whom he has never seen. So this is the commandment that he has given us
that anyone who loves God must also love his brother” [First letter of John 4:20-21]

Our love “is not to be mere words or mere talk, but something real and active; only by this can we be certain that we are children of the truth.” [John 3:18-19] Your apostle Paul exhorts, “Do not let your love be pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil. Love each other as brothers should, and have a profound respect for each other…If any of the saints are in need you must share with them; and you must make hospitality your special care.” [Romans 12:9-13]

“We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves…For Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, ‘The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.’” [Romans. 15:1-3]

“Malice must be banished from your tongue.” [Psalm 34:13]

“Cease to do evil. Learn to do good, search for justice, help the oppressed, be just to the orphan, and plead for the widow. Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.” [Isaiah 1:17-18]
 
I personally think it becomes a danger or a sin, when, if we’re stuck, backed into a corner, or are ignorant on a particular issue of our faith, and, for the sake of pride and not wanting to ‘lose’ to this other person or group of people, we presume or assume what the official catholic dogma or stance is on an issue (at the risk of being wrong, leading others astray, or spouting blasphemies without realizing it) and that we make these radical statements without checking our references thoroughly, and we assume these references are official and are true.

So, in short, I think when we take the easy way out in a debate and we browbeat people with information that we’re not even sure ourselves are accurate, and we do this for the sake of getting the better of them, we’re denigrating the real truth and making other christians, especially other catholics, look bad.

There’s always that pride that starts this sequence of events. One doesn’t want to be proven wrong, that they gamble on the ignorance of the other people involved, at the expense of the catholic church, and ultimately God Himself.

I think it’s very important that when you’re discussing subject matter you yourself are not entirely sure on, that you either don’t take part in the debate to begin with, or you are always humble and open to being proven wrong. I think it’s better to let the other guy win, leave the debate, do your research, and come back at him later with the truth you’ve learned, than to assume the truth for the sake of keeping the upper hand. Eventually your lies or uncertainty will unravel anyways and you will lose all credibility, so it’s better to know what you’re talking about beforehand, and check presumptuous thought at the door.
 
to me it becomes a sin arguing your faith when you keep arguing the same points and post lengthy pieces of doctrine trying to show how much you know. it becomes almost being arrogant about your knowledge and wanting to show people how much you know.

for example, there are some posters from the protestant faith who come here to argue over and over again why they think the catholic church and the pope are invalid. they go on and on day in an day out saying the same old tired arguments.

to me that is a sin. some may not agree with me, but that is okay.
 
Oh, I also forgot to mention that it’s uncooth to not seperate personal opinion from facts and to become so impassioned by the debate or by your own moral code that the line between objective and subjective opinion and official dogma and truth is blurred and you’re blending the two together. When you do this, I think you’re definitely learning towards sinning if you’re not already, since it’s easy to attach a sentiment to a truth or to assume a truth based on a sentiment, so we have to be careful and seperate opinions from facts. We can cause so much harm to people if we don’t.
 
To put it into slightly humorous terms:

If you’re typing madly with your teeth clenched, and say “SO THERE!” as you hit the send button - you have probably sinned.

Of course, I’ve *never *done such a thing…🤷:o

Ruthie
 
Two thoughts on this:
  1. When it becomes more about ‘winning’ the argument/discussion.
  2. When one loses the focus on what one is trying to do (same as #1.
 
Have you read C.S.Lewis’s ‘The Apologist’s Evening Prayer’. it seems rather aposite here…

From all my lame defeats and oh! much more
From all the victories that I seem to score;
From cleverness shot forth on Thy behalf
At which, while angels weep, the audience laugh;
From all my proofs of Thy divinity
Thou, who wouldst give no other sign, deliver me
Thoughts are but coins. Let me not trust instead
Of Thee, their thin-worn image of my head.
From all me thoughts, even from my thoughts of Thee
O thou fair Silence, fall, and set me free.
Lord of the narrow gate and the needle’s eye,
Take me from all my trumpery lest I die.

But, I have to say, that I have learned a great deal from people of other backgrounds. If we are prepared to listen as well as to talk then I personally think we find people from protestant and reformed Catholic (Anglican) or from Orthodox background who can actually take us that little bit closer to Christ. So I woud say “discussion” is almost always positive, “debate” definitely has it’s place and “arguements” should to be chosen carefully (and not avoided when necessary).

It’s a trite old saying, but “we have two ears and one mouth, and we should use them in that proportion”.
 
I’m not perfect. Unfortunately the situation mushroomed and now it’s time to move on. I get more out of apologetics here with my Catholic family that has let go of their former faiths if any. So I believe that the Holy Spirit is calling me away from the board and to move on…grow. Look for the new.
 
vocatio said:
I have been a member of another forum that initially helped us on our conversion…my reversion. However, the forum has recently taken a sharp turn for the worst… It was supposed to be a support board for folks from our previous faith that converted to Catholicism. I’ve tried to tone it down since they are now on constant debate status with an active member from our former faith who is bending over backwards to prove Catholicism wrong. Though the person running the board is quite capable of debating effectively, it’s beginning to make us natious because we feel it’s setting a bad example for others. I also know first handedly that initially reading Karl Keatings book actually hurt me rather that helped me because it through in other things that I wasn’t prepared to deal with all the while I was being proselytized by my then girlfriend’s family who are church leaders in that group. I stumbled because like many I was not taught the true faith on Catholicism completely. I was very confused and thought I knew a lot back then. I even planned at returning to the seminary prior to marrying this woman. Fast forward…17 years later…we’re all Catholic…a pray come true once I realized how grave a mistake I made.

So…at what point does debating with other faith tradition folks does sin become a danger? I may expand my questoins as I come to a better understanding of this.
Click to expand...
At some point it might be best to just walk away, keeping your faith in tact, allowing others to do the same. When it’s apparent that further debate isn’t going to change anyone’s mind, it’s time to move on. 🙂
 
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