At what point does sin enter into this?

[Jerome1974]

I just got back from confession. I’m a middle aged cradle Catholic who was naive enough to think that my overeating was not gluttony because I never made myself vomit. Yes, I should have known better!

My question is: at what point does eating become sinful now that I’m aware of it? The best answer I could come up with before confession was when I eat for pleasure or for fun. Maybe not so much when I’m bored. I get that it’s not a sin to enjoy eating, but does it become a sin when I just do it for the enjoyment? Kind of like sex: taking the prurient without the unitive and procreative? What about when one bowl of ice cream was so good that I just wanted a second? It can’t all come down to a matter of personal conscience.

This is stuff I should have thought to ask when I was younger, so I’m behind the curve on this. I’d appreciate any advice. It may make my examinations of conscience easier.

 

[MrsAngelala]

What a lovely grace, to be shown what God wants you to look at next!

I’ve seen two different definitions of gluttony:

1. Eating more than is necessary to sustain life.
2. Eating to the point where it interferes with activities/responsibilities.

There is a world of difference between these definitions. To my mind, that’s an indication that gluttony is a spectrum, and might be different for each person; for now I go by the looser definition.

At this point in my life, I’ve decided that if I ask myself if I need to eat this right now, the answer is no – and if I eat it an hour later, well, that’s an hour’s worth of self-control, and now I’m an hour hungrier. I will still usually finish a meal, even if I feel full, but the dog gets more scraps these days and also my plate tends to start with more white space.

I find I usually have to confess overeating when I’ve been travelling - unfamiliar surroundings and unfamiliar foods make it harder for me to gauge when I’ve had enough.

Fasting has been extremely effective for resetting my understanding of the proper use of food. If you choose to go that route, start slow, work your way up slowly, and remember the Catholic church’s definition of fasting is pretty liberal. Giving up anything is a good place to start.

I’ve prayed for you, that God will guide your understanding and show you how he wants you to respond to this grace.

 

[1ke]

Please don’t become scrupulous over this.

Live your life with balance.

 

[joeybaggz]

Please don’t become scrupulous over this.

Live your life with balance.

OP: This is good advise. Remember, mortal sin is to indulge in grevious or grave matter willfully, consciously, and deliberately. I don’t think that second bowl of ice cream because the first one was so good, qualifies.
One thing you might do. Consciously take the cost of a half gallon of ice cream, or a six pack of beer, or a package of Doritos, and instead, drop it in a poor box or some other charitable activity. It might be a sacrifice or a denial that ends up being a blessing, both for the person positively affected by your charity, and for yourself. Just think, that eight dollars may end up buying a gallon of milk and a box of breakfast cereal for a child that goes to bed hungry at night.
And you may find yourself gaining better control over your self indulgent desires. It worked for me.

Shalom

 

[St_Francis]

I wonder if the concept of fasting and feasting might not enter into this?

Americans eat as if they are feasting 3 or more times a day! Peasants used to eat one meal on Sundays that was like a normal dinner for us, and then engage in much more rigorous fasts than we do.

Fr Ripperger explains that the old, strict Lent waslike training for fasting, and then we had a number of other fast days as well, including vigil of many feast days. (This is a six-minute video of his on fasting which I haven’t seen; he also has a 40-minute video with Ember Days in its title, which is the one I have seen.)

I think he said it was GKChesterton who said, if we do not fast, we cannot feast; if we do not feast, we cannot fast.

About your own situation, maybe best to ask your priest? He can ask you all the right questions and help you decide.

 

[thistle]

I just got back from confession. I’m a middle aged cradle Catholic who was naive enough to think that my overeating was not gluttony because I never made myself vomit. Yes, I should have known better!

My question is: at what point does eating become sinful now that I’m aware of it? The best answer I could come up with before confession was when I eat for pleasure or for fun. Maybe not so much when I’m bored. I get that it’s not a sin to enjoy eating, but does it become a sin when I just do it for the enjoyment? Kind of like sex: taking the prurient without the unitive and procreative? What about when one bowl of ice cream was so good that I just wanted a second? It can’t all come down to a matter of personal conscience.

This is stuff I should have thought to ask when I was younger, so I’m behind the curve on this. I’d appreciate any advice. It may make my examinations of conscience easier.

Modern Catholic Dictionary:

GLUTTONY. Inordinate desire for the pleasure connected with food or drink. This desire may become sinful in various ways: by eating or drinking far more than a person needs to maintain bodily strength; by glutting one’s taste for certain kinds of food with known detriment to health; by indulging the appetite for exquisite food or drink, especially when these are beyond one’s ability to afford a luxurious diet; by eating or drinking too avidly, i.e., ravenously; by consuming alcoholic beverages to the point of losing full control of one’s reasoning powers. Intoxication that ends in complete loss of reason is a mortal sin if brought on without justification, e.g., for medical reasons. (Etym. Latin glutire, to devour.)

 

[Jerome1974]

Consciously take the cost of a half gallon of ice cream, or a six pack of beer, or a package of Doritos, and instead, drop it in a poor box or some other charitable activity. It might be a sacrifice or a denial that ends up being a blessing, both for the person positively affected by your charity, and for yourself. Just think, that eight dollars may end up buying a gallon of milk and a box of breakfast cereal for a child that goes to bed hungry at night.

It was pretty uncanny, actually, when I wound up doing just this today. I remembered reading your reply as I was driving down the road with my 3-yo to drop food in the St. Vincent de Paul pantry. I had $3 in my wallet and was planning on buying a quart of beer later ($1.99 per quart at my local supermarket). I kept $1 for the collection on Sunday and donated $2. I don’t want to sound campy, so I’ll just the say I received a lot of grace after that! :thankyou:

 

[Jestersage]

Okay… in that case, let’s go the next step: at what step does gluttony become a grave matter?

On a sidenote, I believe that aside from the quantity, C.S. Lewis from his Screwtape Letters Chapter XVII also noted excess food quality is an issue to, which I agree with him we are far more likely to be guilty of. For example: your wife or mom cook your pasta a little bit too acidity, and etc. Taste bland, etc. Doesn’t have enough this “nutrition”. Not delicate enough. Not masculine enough. These will take your focus from God and relationship, something that most of us are far more addicted than anything.

Sometimes, we have to appreciate that when we get home, we have a hot food waiting, which quite frankly, not many people do – how many need to come home tired, an eat instant noodles because it’s easiest to make?

 

[Rosebud77]

I eat very simply through choice and condition. Money is very tight and I am always aware of those who have far less than I will ever have.

Basically one 3 course meal a day divided by 3. Cannot eat much at any one time and not allowed to fast.

Takes very little to make a treat and treats are essential to mental health in my view…

Always thankful for food and I enjoy what I eat.

 

[Wesrock]

If I’m considering gluttony according to my understanding of the natural law, eating for pleasure isn’t itself sinful. It’s only grave matter (not speaking of mortal sin, just grave matter) when the eating being done goes so far as to frustrate the primary good of eating (nutrition, sustenance, health), such that it’s willfully detrimental to your health. To be clear, it’s not just a matter of the eating being done for different goods (pleasure), but that it goes so far as to be a *frustration *of the primary goods being obtained.

I’m not spiritual counselor, though.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Americans eat as if they are feasting 3 or more times a day! Peasants used to eat one meal on Sundays that was like a normal dinner for us, and then engage in much more rigorous fasts than we do.

This is a pretty big overgeneralization. While some people probably do eat big meals regularly, I, and many other Americans I know, often miss meals entirely or just have a coffee on the run or something because of our work schedules. (Despite this we often are still overweight because the grab-and-go quick foods we consume are full of sugar, chemicals, and processed garbage which affect our metabolisms and put weight on, and we also often do not get regular exercise. )

Part of the reason I do not find fasting to be all that helpful of a religious practice is that many days I find myself “fasting” without planning on doing it for penance due to work and other commitments - and healthwise, that’s not a good idea. I wrecked my metabolism as a young person with a lot of erratic eating and ended up having to see a nutritionist to get back on track.

We would do better to follow a healthy low-fat low-calorie diet and eat all of the stuff we are supposed to eat for each meal, rather than going without entirely. Believe me when I say that cutting all the sugar out of your diet for a month is MUCH more of a sacrifice than doing a bread and water fast for a day. It’s like quitting smoking - most people will get withdrawals, headaches etc. Try it if you don’t believe me (this means you cut out every food with sugar or refined flour as an ingredient, not just skip the candy).

Edited to add, or try giving up all of your coffee, tea, soda, alcohol, flavored water, juice, milk and just drinking only plain water for a month. I did that for 6 weeks for a charity fundraiser and it also causes withdrawals and a lot of people also doing it for the charity had a very hard time. Try it and see.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

My question is: at what point does eating become sinful now that I’m aware of it? The best answer I could come up with before confession was when I eat for pleasure or for fun.

Not sure there’s a bright line test. At some point over eating becomes obsessive unnecessary and unhealthy. Close to that point is the line. Don’t be over legalistic in you examen or your confession. Unless the over eating has reached a pathological stage, simply admit being intemperate or immoderate in consumption of food or drink.

 

[2cherubs]

One possibility to consider: What we call gluttony is very often Binge Eating Disorder. (No, it’s not necessary to induce vomiting to have an eating disorder. And yes, men do get eating disorders, too).

Whether or not it’s an eating disorder, over-eating has a lot of complex physiological and psychological roots to it.

It’s good to see a preferred health care provider to rule out any underlying physiological or medical issues, (e.g. insulin resistance, microbiome-related issues), and then get a referral to a therapist who can help screen for and treat underlying causes like depression or anxiety. Cognitive-behavioral therapy can address any emotional issues related to the over-eating and help stop any self-destructive patterns.

I went to the confessional for a similar reason years ago. The priest told me that I was harboring far too much guilt. I was a brand new convert to Catholicism and thought, “WOW! a CATHOLIC PRIEST thinks I have too much guilt, I must REALLY be a mess!!”

Part of my penance was to see a therapist. I’m still indebted to that priest for issuing such a sensible order!

I had some other thoughts, but please cross-reference any of this with your priest!

My understanding is that the Seven Deadly Sins, including gluttony, are not sins in and of themselves but vices that lie at the root of sins. Scroll down to Part V:

1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called “capital” because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.

It’s normal and understandable to experience anger, for example, just as Christ himself did toward the vendors in the temple. But we confess to those sins to which that anger leads us – e.g. resentment, cynicism, hurting others, etc.

Has your gluttony caused you to commit particular sins? (For example, in extreme cases, some people have stolen food). Focus on confessing those, and then seek out the necessary resources to help with the overeating itself.

Many blessings to you in this journey!