At what point in the evolutionary line did humans start getting souls.

[ms_alternative]

all animals and man have the same souls it is the same to kill a fish as a man.the sole started at the bacteria stage. with out the souls evolution could not work. so humans have always had souls. even when we were very primitive.

 

[tjm190]

all animals and man have the same souls it is the same to kill a fish as a man.the sole started at the bacteria stage. with out the souls evolution could not work. so humans have always had souls. even when we were very primitive.

So… spraying lysol is the same as the holocaust?

 

[ms_alternative]

So… spraying lysol is the same as the holocaust?

i would not take it that far but how can bacteria evolve on its own it needs something more call it a sole god energy attraction it douse not matter the name you call it. but if something is alive there is a reason for it and to kill it.

try going for a long walk and pay attention to where you step so not to kill a living thing after the walk sit and contemplate how you feel about your self. you will find peace because you went out of your way to save lowly creatures.

try giving up eating animals see if you find more peace in becoming compassionate to all living creatures

my point is god is in all creations plants animals and bugs. we need to eat plants but they do not cry out loud and most make fruits to give to us. when you eat them you will feel physically better be happier and at peace.

but if you feel badly about something it is wrong i do not even eat honey but for you the rules are different not in a bad way but you are the author to your own reality and what you think you are so you can live a pure life doing what would be a sin for me.

please do not think i am judging or telling you that your sinning in any way. you are a good person.may god bless you and your whole entire family.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

try going for a long walk and pay attention to where you step so not to kill a living thing after the walk sit and contemplate how you feel about your self. you will find peace because you went out of your way to save lowly creatures.

I tried that, but then I noticed the groundhog munching on my heirloom tomato plants…

try giving up eating animals see if you find more peace in becoming compassionate to all living creatures

As I was enjoying my bbq’d groundhog, I got to thinking about what you were saying, and I can see its appeal. I have a “soul”; you have a “soul”. Furthermore, my mother and your mother both have “souls.”

Flash back millions of years ago, our common ancestor – a worm. Does the worm have a “soul”; my inclination is to say no. Fine. Flash forward – tree shrew, another common ancestor. Soul? I still say no, but it’s more difficult. So, somewhere between “tree shrew” and “me”, one of our ancestors gets a “soul.”

We call him “Adam”. But did Adam have a mother, or was he created ex nihilo? If he had a mother, isn’t it odd that his mother didn’t have a soul? Doesn’t seem right.

If he was created ex nihilo, alongside other hominids, than what’s the whole point of having these other hominids to begin with?

In short, I don’t think either science or the Church can provide a satisfactory answer to this one – one of the many problems a finite being runs into when he tries to wrap his mind around the infinite.

So, here’s a joke (koan?) for you: Buddhist walks up to the hot dog vendor and says: “Make me one with everything.”

 

[NoWings]

So, here’s a joke (koan?) for you: Buddhist walks up to the hot dog vendor and says: “Make me one with everything.”

Ugh…

/rimshot

 

[rossum]

So, here’s a joke (koan?) for you: Buddhist walks up to the hot dog vendor and says: “Make me one with everything.”

And the hot dog seller hands her an empty bun, saying “Wu!”

rossum

 

[grannymh]

That is a nifty Catechism site, but…

I haven’t been able to find where it says that humans are the only possible “persons” - that is, non-angelic beings with an eternal soul. If you don’t give a specific reference, how am I to make out what is your opinion and what is Church teaching?

Hi Prodigal_Son,

Was doing some research and found another section in the Catholic Catechism which you might find interesting, paragraphs 1701- 1715 or thereabouts.

CCC: #1703 Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul, the human person is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake.” From his conception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is completely unique.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Hi Prodigal_Son,

Was doing some research and found another section in the Catholic Catechism which you might find interesting, paragraphs 1701- 1715 or thereabouts.

CCC: #1703 Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul, the human person is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake.” From his conception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

Definitely a relevant passage. This accords well with our knowledge, which is mostly confined to our experience of Earth. I’m not sure that the Catechism intends to say authoritatively that the human person is the only creature *in the universe *that God has willed for its own sake.

I really like that phrasing, though. When God made us, he willed us for our own sake. And we are to turn our will toward Him, not for any reward, but because He is worthy of our lives.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

And the hot dog seller hands her an empty bun, saying “Wu!”

rossum

Touche’.

Actually, I think “wu” is the perfect answer to the subject question of this thread. Much like the answer Jesus gave to the lawyer who asked him what he had to “do” to enter hte Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus knew he wasn’t about to give away all his possesion, which is precisely why he told him to do so – he was asking the wrong question, but the right answer was given just the same.

So, if you’re asking whether Adam’s mother or brother had a “soul”, I guess you’re not really getting the point of Genesis. We have no Adonai nature, I suppose.

 

[grannymh]

So, if you’re asking whether Adam’s mother or brother had a “soul”, I guess you’re not really getting the point of Genesis. We have no Adonai nature, I suppose.

The Adam in Genesis did not have a mother or brother. I must have missed something–what did you mean by “We have no Adonai nature, I suppose.” We do have a spiritual component, soul, as an essential part of our nature.

 

[ms_alternative]

I tried that, but then I noticed the groundhog munching on my heirloom tomato plants…

As I was enjoying my bbq’d groundhog, I got to thinking about what you were saying, and I can see its appeal. I have a “soul”; you have a “soul”. Furthermore, my mother and your mother both have “souls.”

Flash back millions of years ago, our common ancestor – a worm. Does the worm have a “soul”; my inclination is to say no. Fine. Flash forward – tree shrew, another common ancestor. Soul? I still say no, but it’s more difficult. So, somewhere between “tree shrew” and “me”, one of our ancestors gets a “soul.”

We call him “Adam”. But did Adam have a mother, or was he created ex nihilo? If he had a mother, isn’t it odd that his mother didn’t have a soul? Doesn’t seem right.

If he was created ex nihilo, alongside other hominids, than what’s the whole point of having these other hominids to begin with?

In short, I don’t think either science or the Church can provide a satisfactory answer to this one – one of the many problems a finite being runs into when he tries to wrap his mind around the infinite.

So, here’s a joke (koan?) for you: Buddhist walks up to the hot dog vendor and says: “Make me one with everything.”

is your only point to make fun of me?
i think the pot is calling the kettle black.you eat rodents?
sense you brought up"Adam" what food did god tell him to eat?
Genesis 1:29
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

douse god plan for animals to eat animals for ever or will he change that?
Isaiah 65:25
“The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither hunt nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.

why did god only want the Jews to eat the manna when going to the promised land?

The Quail and the Plague
Numbers 11
31(AG)Now there went forth a wind from the LORD and it brought quail from the sea, and let them fall beside the camp, about a day’s journey on this side and a day’s journey on the other side, all around the camp and about two cubits deep on the surface of the ground.
32The people spent all day and all night and all the next day, and gathered the quail (he who gathered least gathered ten (AH)homers) and they spread them out for themselves all around the camp.

33(AI)While the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the anger of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD struck the people with a very severe plague.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

The Adam in Genesis did not have a mother or brother. I must have missed something–what did you mean by “We have no Adonai nature, I suppose.” We do have a spiritual component, soul, as an essential part of our nature.

Was making a silly pun. When the pupil gives a wrong answer to a koan, the Zen master says, “you have no Buddha nature”. But in this case, we, who are asking the question, are perhaps asking the wrong question.

When we talk of “Adam”, we mean the first human endowed with a soul. But unless you accept a hyper-literal reading of Genesis (which I suspect most of us do not), than “Adam” either (1) had a mother, or (2) was created ex nihiloamongst other otherwise fungible hominids who did not have souls. Neither scenario is particularly appealing to our sense of logic or what we know about God.

So, perhaps to ask the question: “At what point in the evolutionary line did humans start getting souls”, while useful insofar as it generates thought-provoking discussion, and perhaps as an object of prayerful meditation, has no real “answer”, so to speak.

Otherwise, I think the Magesterium is pretty clear that homo sapiens is the exclusive member of the Immortal Soul Club. I seem to remember Leibniz writing about “animal souls”, though, which I think he called “entelechies”, and that had somethign to do with his theory of monadology, but I don’t think he thoguht animals went to heaven either…

– N.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So, perhaps to ask the question: “At what point in the evolutionary line did humans start getting souls”, while useful insofar as it generates thought-provoking discussion, and perhaps as an object of prayerful meditation, has no real “answer”, so to speak.

If it is true that we have a soul, then it must have an answer. Are you saying that we cannot *know *the answer? In that case, I entirely agree.

 

[cassini]

If there earth is only 6000 years old then how is it possible that we are able to see something that is over 6000 light years away?

Assuming some stars are 6000 light years away - something that can be disputed, we see them because God created the stars VISIBLE to man on the 6th day.
God can do these things you know, even without the permission of scientists.

 

[edwest2]

This question does not have a scientific answer at this time.

However, all questions regarding human origins must start with God.

“Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,”
Matthew 19:4

God did not make them asexual protozoa, but the contention here is not about the work of God but of those who seek to worship the human mind only so they can no longer be mindful of God or His work.

Peace,
Ed

 

[grannymh]

So, perhaps to ask the question: “At what point in the evolutionary line did humans start getting souls”, while useful insofar as it generates thought-provoking discussion, and perhaps as an object of prayerful meditation, has no real “answer”, so to speak.
– N.

The reason there is no “real answer” to the question “At what point in the evolutionary line did humans start getting souls?”, is that the question is invalid at the start. To put it simply, to be human means having a soul. Humans did not exist first and then somewhere along the evolutionary line a soul arrived. Humans cannot exist unless the soul is present. The absence of soul is death of the human body.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Neanderthals are a product of evolution and have no souls.

Adam and Eve were the first homo sapiens and the parents of all currently on the Earth and were specially created from God and descended from no other evolved hominids.

I don’t have a problem with other types of evolution. I do have a problem with Adam and Eve evolving from anything.

They are body and soul composites–their souls animate their bodies–and their souls HAD to be specially created by God–they could not have come from evolutionary processes.

It is impossible for the soul to evolve from the physical.

God inserting a soul into a hominid isn’t precious it is perverted!

Look for this thread to get shut down soon–the modernists in the Catholic Church can’t stand the nauseous insertion of a human soul into a non human hominid not being promoted as informed enlightened truth!

If given truth serum they wouldn’t admit to the FACT of the Resurrection of Jesus either–it isn’t enlightened science ya know. Not an accepted “Evolved” type of thinking.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Neanderthals are a product of evolution and have no souls.

Adam and Eve were the first homo sapiens and the parents of all currently on the Earth and were specially created from God and descended from no other evolved hominids.

I don’t have a problem with other types of evolution. I do have a problem with Adam and Eve evolving from anything.

They are body and soul composites–their souls animate their bodies–and their souls HAD to be specially created by God–they could not have come from evolutionary processes.

It is impossible for the soul to evolve from the physical.

God inserting a soul into a hominid isn’t precious it is perverted!

More so than breathing a soul into mud?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Yes–definitely more so! Why? Because it glorifies God MORE to breathe a soul into mud and make that a human than it does to breathe into an evolved hominid and make that a human.

Only adding the breath of God to a hominid would indicate that the hominid was ALMOST complete.

No one would say that mud was ALMOST complete.

So God breathing on mud glorifies God much more!

It also results in something quite DIFFERENT–a transformed mud which would later return back to the earth where at the last day God would transform it again.

The mere addition of a soul to a hominid it not a radical transformation of a hominid.

Only the breath of God can transform mud–only the breath of God can give man(priests) the ability to forgive sins and thus transform souls.

We as humans are not souls added to hominids we are transformed mud!

God transforms us–we aren’t additions to hominids.

Will God transform animals at the Last day? No. Will God transform humans at the last day? Yes. Would God transform a hominid at the last day? No!

We as Catholics are transformed mud which gives even more glory to God than the perversion of adding a separate soul to a hominid.

God doesn’t add us to a hominid–He transforms mud into the human/soul composite known as man!

Does what I say square with what is thought as science? No–but neither does the resurrection of Jesus.

Why is it hard to believe in the resurrection transformation and not believe in the special transformation of mud into man?

Jesus healed a man’s sight by rubbing mud onto his eyes.

If Jesus as God can miraculously heal with mud that way–why can’t Jesus together with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit create that way in Genesis?

Catholics believe in both/and.

It’s easy to only believe in only evolution.

It’s easy to believe only in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

What’s hard for many is to believe in a little bit of both.

I think BOTH is right. Most all of evolution is true–but the special creation of man from mud is also true! Both/and–quite Catholic if you ask me!

 

[Aloysium]

Taking star-dust and breathing life into it to form Adam could happen in different ways that I can imagine, including molding dirt into human form and creating a human embryo in a manner similar to how Christ was conceived in Mary.
For me, what I can’t get my head around is the creation of Eve from Adam. The only thing that makes sense is actually the original rib story.
Things were different in the Garden.