Atheism, and ignoring Jesus

[COLOS]

double post*

 

[Gump]

Arguing with Religious nuts like you on internet forums is far more entertaining than anything else I get to do around this time.

 

[COLOS]

Arguing with Religious nuts like you on internet forums is far more entertaining than anything else I get to do around this time.

Ah, the rebuttal of insult. Wow, how crafty of you.

Seriously, if you have nothing of an intelligent nature to add, I’m going to sleep.

 

[lkddav]

Christianity isn’t magic. Magic is for those that think they can control others by manipulation, that is how pagans get side tracked. God gave mankind a free will choice between doing right or wrong. So it is your choice, not mine on what you believe or refuse to believe, to do good or to do evil. It is all up to you. I don’t believe in God because others believe in God, I believe for I have seen what He has done in my own life. I recognize He is real and it is not because I was told He was real, I believe because I know He is real and some day you will too.

Hello Ben

I’m sorry but christianity is magic. Talking snakes, virgin births, people coming back to life after death etc. Is this not magic?

les

 

[Gump]

Ah, the rebuttal of insult. Wow, how crafty of you.

Seriously, if you have nothing of an intelligent nature to add, I’m going to sleep.

I didn’t mean it as an insult.

Seriously, if you have nothing of an informed nature to add, I’m going to sleep.

 

[lkddav]

Your questions have been answered ad nauseum by others here in this forum. Those people are well versed in scripture, I’m not. I just love God. The fact that I refuse to comment on the absurd isn’t stalling, it’s me deflecting your attempts to get a rile out of some catholics by saying things you perceive as blasphemous and irreverent enough to evoke havoc. Since I saw your answers were there, in black and white, I didn’t answer, except to say you need to “see” as well as “look” - remember?

Anyway, the benefit of being religious, that you fail to get, at this time, is this feeling that only serving God brings. It’s a feeling that Christians throughout the ages have lived and died for, they give up everything for. (Don’t impose your all or nothing standards here - Christians are people, we sin, we fall, but we stand again.)

The answer to prayer is always there, just as promised. We pray for God’s will, just as Jesus prayed. Jesus requested the cup pass him if it were the Father’s will. The suffering of Jesus, his mother (who accepted her task as well at God’s will) were not easy things for them as they were human. As I said, I’m no apologist, which is why I don’t answer these types of questions, but I’ll just do my best here from what I know is true…when we pray, we pray for the will of God, not our own - why should we when God is all good, he knows what is good and right and he loves us - and you.

So - though I’ve seen hardships that you couldn’t imagine, and I’ve wanted my way. When I got to the end, I looked back and saw the good that God was bringing me, through my suffering, closer to him - something that you cannot understand in your current frame of mind. There is merit in suffering. I don’t know the exact quote but it’s something like this: The wheat must fall to the ground in order to promulgate.

Try to deny yourself for another. There is nothing you can buy with money that makes you feel as wonderful. Just try it. Pray & suffer for a day, read the life of one saint (St. Therese will help you if you need to learn about self denial). Now, you will come back with talk of starving children, and believe me, they are never far from the Catholic mind as our religion is based on sacrifice for the poor. The entire Lenten season is about giving up food and giving it to the poor. And as I posted earlier, we give hundreds of millions to feed those all around the world. I think it’s important that you ask yourself how many atheist agencies give as much. And my question that you are stalling on…what outcome do you want from your pointing out our supposed failings? Do you want us to stop giving as much to the poor? And yes, there would be a tremendous decrease in the charitable dollars if people no longer had faith and hope - to deny that fact is delusional. So the outcome you are trying to achieve is?

Regarding the divorce rates etc…since you are expecting comments from me blah blah blah…I would ask you what other variables are involved in those stats? For example, did you know that rape increases with the sales of ice cream? It’s true. Cases of rape increase with ice cream sales. Do you think that ice cream causes rape? No, there are other variables involved. Summer months, open windows, unlocked doors, later hours out, etc., So, the bottom line here is that your numbers are bunk Gump - I don’t know who did the study, and in todays world, studies show something one day and another thing the next based on the agenda of who’s paying. In 2005 there was a huge study that said prayer works with regards to medical healing…should we go with that study or the 2007 study? In 2009 if there’s a study that again changes the opinion on prayer, will you change yours? haha!

Alrighty then,

Nighty night.

P.S. I’m on summer vacation, I don’t want to work so much. Gosh!

Hi Veronica

In other words. You are a Christian, on a Christian forum. Trolling.

If you don’t know enough about your belief to defend it, don’t post. You are only making other Christians look bad.

Les

 

[COLOS]

Gump:

I didn’t mean it as an insult.

Seriously, if you have nothing of an informed nature to add, I’m going to sleep.

Imitation, the highest form of flattery.

Goodnight, silly.

 

[Ronald_E]

A God that requires your believing (and chooses not to prove himself to you) must be very insecure. Why can we not be believers when we see proof of this God?

If him not intervening truly is part of his ‘will’ why does he damn those who choose simply not to believe in him without proof? This all-knowing, pure and gracious God seems to be very emotionally instable as well as malevolent.

Hi Gump, God, in my opinion, does not damn those who choose simply not to believe in Him. There is a quote in Romans 2:14 that states “For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves…They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness…God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus.”
In other words, if you do not believe that God is real, yet you live a life that does no harm to others, you will then receive your natural consequences based on following your heart and conscience. Now, we who believe in God are expected to live a life that is held to an even higher standard because more is expected from us in our relationship to God. We are required to love like Christ and become an example that draws people to Him through that loving light.
We are to love our perceived enemies. How difficult is that?

 

[Bennie_P]

Hello Ben

I’m sorry but christianity is magic. Talking snakes, virgin births, people coming back to life after death etc. Is this not magic?

les

I would have to disagree with you and suggest instead of making prejudgements, possibly do some serious biblical study. I sense anger toward those who believe in your post, and that is OK, for I cannot expect one without faith to understand why we that do believe do so, in light of the fact that so many of us, that believe, seem to live our faith as if it is magic or, in a superstition manner.

But I feel that if you are one that is really and honestly seeking the truth the answers will come. May you have a blessed day

 

[Bennie_P]

If this God showed himself to me personally (and preferrably with other witnesses) I would willingly give up my own free will. Such a God would be able to take it if he needed it be. I’m not close-minded, if there is reasoning to believe, I will believe. If we discover an alien life force with Religions exactly matching one of ours, I would believe on the spot.

I have doubts that you would, with the logic you have been expressing you probaly would check into a into a mental ward or, become a Trekkie. Let us be honest here? Your lack of belief is more about your judgement of those you see as failing to live up to your idea of how a Christian should be. One of the many misconceptions about Christinity is that Christians should be perfect as the one they follow when in fact it is about the perfect One calling out to ones that are far from perfect. In other words Jesus came for the sinner, if you have it all together then way would you need God? For if you are perfect you must be Him.

Faith/belief is more then seeing.

Today’s Gospel

Mt 13:10-17

The disciples approached Jesus and said,
“Why do you speak to the crowd in parables?”
He said to them in reply,
“Because knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven
has been granted to you, but to them it has not been granted.
To anyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich;
from anyone who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
This is why I speak to them in parables, because
they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.
Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says:

You shall indeed hear but not understand,
you shall indeed look but never see.
Gross is the heart of this people,
they will hardly hear with their ears,
they have closed their eyes,
lest they see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their hearts and be converted
and I heal them.

“But blessed are your eyes, because they see,
and your ears, because they hear.
Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people
longed to see what you see but did not see it,
and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

 

[Hobble]

Sufferring and death are a real part of this life. It is the way things are. You will suffer and die soon enough as well, and so will I. God provided a way for suffering and death to not be meaningless. As shown on the cross, one of the greatest powers in human life is redemptive suffering. This is alien to you.

In this modern world, suffering is equated with sin. Suffering is the sin of the atheist religion, where you are your own god and should act to prevent any personal discomfort while you live. It is the worst that can befall an active consumer.

The ultimate goal in this life is the purification of the heart through Grace. No Saint that I know of had any interest in prolonging his/her life beyond the time that was set for them, and many Saints suffered very much prior to dying.

A very interesting book, Last Words of Sinners and Saints. Here is a Catholic collection: Last Words: Final Thoughts of Catholic Saints and Sinners. Funny thing about many of those famous last words from athiests…

There is a very real difference in how Christians die and how atheists die. In my job I get to see it first hand. You are more than welcome to your beliefs. I’d rather die at peace with God.

Hell is real. There is a debt to be paid based on how you live. Justice is frequently not served in this life. God help us.

That doesn’t have much to do with my question. But it brings up a good discussion.

I reject the belief that there exists a Heaven and a Hell.

If hell and heaven are real, and you really do have to end up in either eternal happiness or eternal hell fire based on a couple sins. Than God is incredibly unjust.

What is eternal happiness anyway? no one can even answer what happiness truly is.

Did you know that Buddhists and Athiests die more peacefully than Catholics or Christians? It’s because when it comes to your last thoughts, catholics and christians start thinking about everything bad they’ve done, and they are worried whether they are going to heaven or hell.

Heaven and Hell are metaphors.

There’s an old .Buddhist story which explains this.

**
It starts with an old Buddhist monk, a very wise man. One day the monk crosses paths with a samurai.

The samurai says “Monk! Teach me about heaven and hell, but only if you actually know, otherwise don’t waste my time.”

The monk pauses for a moment. Than he says, “You foolish samurai you haven’t bathed in weeks! do you even know where you are? How could someone as foolish as you possibly hope to understand anything about heaven and hell? What a joke, get out of my face.”

The samurai is outraged. He says “What? I’m a samurai, I’ve gone through years and years of training, not just physical but spiritual, now tell me!”

The monk responds “You, a samurai? HAH! what a joke, you’re just a fool with a sword! You could never understand”

Upon hearing this the samurai becomes furious. In a rage he draws his sword, and he lifts it, ready to decapitate the old monk!

At the moment the monk points at the samurai, and he says “That, is hell.” **

Do you understand?

The problem with many religions is the superstitions. As long as we keep these superstitions in our minds we can never begin the journey of reaching peace.

 

[Veronica7978]

Hi Veronica

In other words. You are a Christian, on a Christian forum. Trolling.

If you don’t know enough about your belief to defend it, don’t post. You are only making other Christians look bad.

Les

Les & Gump,

You are the two laziest, ill informed atheists I’ve ever run across. The atheists I know (in person) at least try to answer something when they are backed into a corner.

P.S. Trolling would be somebody who comes in to cause trouble=you. I’m here to learn my faith.

 

[Gump]

Les & Gump,

You are the two laziest, ill informed atheists I’ve ever run across. The atheists I know (in person) at least try to answer something when they are backed into a corner.

P.S. Trolling would be somebody who comes in to cause trouble=you. I’m here to learn my faith.

I would recommend getting your facts (and opinions) straight before starting to insult people.

I believe it is you who is backed into a corner. I’ve tried to answer all questions, so please stop living in a fantasy world.

 

[Veronica7978]

Since you seem so hellbent on stalling (never understanding that Prayer DOES NOT WORK), I ask you: Do you believe in the Bible, and all that is written within it?

haha! I just read this again and starting laughing all over again. You say I’m stalling because I “never understand” even though I clearly answered all your questions to me! So you are expecting me to go agree with you or I’m stalling, is that right? How old are you?

P.S. I believe in the bible, and all that is written within it. Please cut and paste something from a website for me to read and work on!!!

 

[Veronica7978]

That doesn’t have much to do with my question. But it brings up a good discussion.

I reject the belief that there exists a Heaven and a Hell. It’s your choice, free will

If hell and heaven are real, and you really do have to end up in either eternal happiness or eternal hell fire based on a couple sins. Than God is incredibly unjust. You are misinformed. Which is generally the basis when someone is as strayed as you appear. Do you really think that two small sins will keep you from God for all eternity? No.

What is eternal happiness anyway? no one can even answer what happiness truly is. Again, you are mis-informed. The answers are easy. Eternal happiness is being in the presence of God. The opposite is hell.

Did you know that Buddhists and Athiests die more peacefully than Catholics or Christians? **No. But I always think it’s funny when people talk in absolutes, because that is always flawed logic. **It’s because when it comes to your last thoughts, catholics and christians start thinking about everything bad they’ve done, Not true for everyoneand they are worried whether they are going to heaven or hell again not true for everyone.

Heaven and Hell are metaphors

The problem with many religions is the superstitions. As long as we keep these superstitions in our minds we can never begin the journey of reaching peace.

If you were at peace, you wouldn’t be searching

 

[Hobble]

If you were at peace, you wouldn’t be searching

Did I ever claim I was at peace?

You’re right, i shouldn’t speak in absolutes. But in some cases it’s true.

The idea that there’s a god, who thinks “obey me, worship me, follow my rules, or else you will burn and suffer for eternity” is ludicrous. Such methods are the ways of a totalitarian maniac, not a God.

 

[lurdes]

Let me state I draw most of my arguments from godisimaginary.com.

Second off, I am soon-to-be 28, live in California (USA) and am a very outspoken Atheist.

Third off, most of these arguments are targeted at the Christian faith but some still apply to you.

edit: Since I can’t copy-paste, I’ll have to paste the links only in here. Sorry, but I doubt I can fit 31553 characters within the 9999 character limit.

Analyzing Prayer

Imagine Heaven

Notice Your Church

Understand Delusion

Think About Science

Notice That You Ignore Jesus

I could go on and on and on, but I’ll save the board bandwidth any more strain. I am a very Scientific person, and more than often won’t believe something until I see proof of it.

For 50 arguments against Religion (and others), check the link at the top of my post. I draw my arguments from there.

And…God bless?

so since you are a very scientific man can you give me concrete prove without a reason of doubt that God does not exist. Thank you.

 

[Veronica7978]

Did I ever claim I was at peace?

You’re right, i shouldn’t speak in absolutes. But in some cases it’s true.

The idea that there’s a god, who thinks “obey me, worship me, follow my rules, or else you will burn and suffer for eternity” is ludicrous. Such methods are the ways of a totalitarian maniac, not a God.

If what you are saying were true - yes. But that’s not true at all. Jesus was the one that got down on his feet and washed the feet of others. Jesus came to bring us to God. God can’t even look upon sin, which you have to admit, there’s a ton of it here…check out cnn.com…anyway, Jesus came into this sinful world in the meekest of ways, not as a king. He was tortured and killed, but rose again, thereby conquering death for all of us (there’s your metaphor death). He offers us mercy, a way to have all of our sins forgiving so that even though we do sin, and God knows we will sin, we are still able to be with God for all eternity. He doesn’t keep us out - he opens the door.

 

[Bennie_P]

If what you are saying were true - yes. But that’s not true at all. Jesus was the one that got down on his feet and washed the feet of others. Jesus came to bring us to God. God can’t even look upon sin, which you have to admit, there’s a ton of it here…check out cnn.com…anyway, Jesus came into this sinful world in the meekest of ways, not as a king. He was tortured and killed, but rose again, thereby conquering death for all of us (there’s your metaphor death). He offers us mercy, a way to have all of our sins forgiving so that even though we do sin, and God knows we will sin, we are still able to be with God for all eternity. He doesn’t keep us out - he opens the door.

Isn’t funny, those that don’t have faith see our faith as chains, but those of us that have faith see it as freedom.

 

[Hobble]

If what you are saying were true - yes. But that’s not true at all. Jesus was the one that got down on his feet and washed the feet of others. Jesus came to bring us to God. God can’t even look upon sin, which you have to admit, there’s a ton of it here…check out cnn.com…anyway, Jesus came into this sinful world in the meekest of ways, not as a king. He was tortured and killed, but rose again, thereby conquering death for all of us (there’s your metaphor death). He offers us mercy, a way to have all of our sins forgiving so that even though we do sin, and God knows we will sin, we are still able to be with God for all eternity. He doesn’t keep us out - he opens the door.

That’s gotta be the 40th time someone on here has told the story of Jesus, like I needed to hear it again.

So please explain to me, what is with all the insane catholics who are so hung up about everyone going to hell than?

Basically what you’re saying, is that no one goes to hell. If you kill 100 babies and rape a puppy you will still go to heaven? so what is the point of there being a hell? if hell exists in a literal sense like Catholics believe than who goes there?

I love how Catholics will make God seem loving and great when it comes to stuff like this, and ignore so many other things he apparently did. This is the same god that committed mass murder in three cities.

The reason it’s so hard to debate religion with Catholics and Christians, is because none of them even completely agree on their own beliefs. Some depict god as loving and cherry pick to make him seem good. Some depict him as vengeful and focus on why we should fear him.

So I am not wrong just because what I am saying doesn’t necessarily fit into your general view of God.