Atheism, and ignoring Jesus

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Gump

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Let me state I draw most of my arguments from godisimaginary.com.

Second off, I am soon-to-be 28, live in California (USA) and am a very outspoken Atheist.

Third off, most of these arguments are targeted at the Christian faith but some still apply to you.

edit: Since I can’t copy-paste, I’ll have to paste the links only in here. Sorry, but I doubt I can fit 31553 characters within the 9999 character limit.

Analyzing Prayer

Imagine Heaven

Notice Your Church

Understand Delusion

Think About Science

Notice That You Ignore Jesus

I could go on and on and on, but I’ll save the board bandwidth any more strain. I am a very Scientific person, and more than often won’t believe something until I see proof of it.

For 50 arguments against Religion (and others), check the link at the top of my post. I draw my arguments from there.

And…God bless?
 
You’re not going to get any argument from me. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
Been there, done that, from time to time, over the decades.

There are billions of human beings extant, on the planet, who are themselves of an atheistic stance. Check back with the early Greek philosphers. They, too, held that no diety was to be acknowledged.

Or perhaps peruse the words of Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, the ‘Enlightened One.’
Buddhism is a philosophy, not a ‘religion,’ in the sense that no deity is acknowledged.
A wonderful philosophy, for those disinclined to grant existence to the God of Judeo/Christianity.

pbs.org/edens/thailand/buddhism.htm

There is an anecdote that may have application, here.

Paris, in the 19th century.
A street car.
An elderly man, saying the rosary - as the street car moves forward.
A young man, a student of science [science = *scientia = knowledge.]
The student sees the elderly man at prayer.
As the younger is about to debark the street car,
he approaches the elder, hands him a card and says:
“You superstitious man. Don’t you know that science is all?”
“Please, contact me at the address on the card. I’ll explain
this all to you. No god. No religion. No happy ever-after.”
The elderly man nods, politely, studying the young man’s card.
Then he returns to his prayers.
A few stops later, this man leaves the streetcar, on his way
to his office.
The man? Louis Pasteur. Member of Académie des sciences.
The French Academy of Science. The foremost scientist, in all
of France, at that time.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Louis_Pasteur.jpg

In our own day, a claim is advanced that no ‘truth value’ is
to be extended - to any phenomenon not provable, empirically.
This is known as ‘scientism,’ not science.
Scientism -----> The demand that all phenomena are to be subject to
sub iacto = thrown under] the scientific method.
The sole point to stress, I think, is that one who belives in
God carries the burden of ‘proof.’ No one can be required
to prove a negative. I do not have to prove that God does not exist,
no more than I can be demanded to prove that a unicorn does not exist.

Prescinding from this sole reality - in the realm of logic,
I would say this. I have come to accept Judaism as the
faith that was, and remains, the true faith. Why? Because,
as an adolescent, I saw the piety and goodness of those
whom I knew were members of Judaism. Judaism seeks
no converts, while yet accepting same. And you know what?
I have no more desire to ‘prove’ - either that God exists, or
that Judaism is the ‘true’ faith, than I have desire to prove that
love endures and grows, with the passage of years. This latter
being a ‘subject’ - beyond realms empirical. Perhaps it is
because I am aging, that I am disinclined to engage on
such topics. I find it difficult, to think of love as a ‘topic.’

For one who takes a stance of atheism, the existentialist
philosophy is beautifully articulated, by Albert Camus.
Camus did not consider himself an existentialist, but
his work indicates otherwise. Were I an atheist, I
would embrace existentialism. I could do none better,
I think - for a wonderfully articulated philosophy of life.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Camus

Kindest regards, http://bestsmileys.com/waving/5.gif

reen12
 
I’m currently researching and compiling an extensive analysis of the fallacies inherent in the arguments used to support the new atheism. I mean it to turn out more comprehensive than any recently published. Every atheist argument becomes food for my work. Therefore, I’ve noticed that forums rarely lend themselves that kind of lengthy discussion. Besides the limit, posters usually like to wander. They don’t want to read long posts that ocver many points of discussion. It’s actually poor etiquette to post lots of long posts.
So, please break it into little chunks and we’ll get together in Philosophy or Apologetics sometime.
 
quote: strngrnrth
I’m currently researching and compiling an extensive analysis of the fallacies inherent in the arguments used to support the new atheism.
Click to expand...
This must be interesting work.

An atheist is not required, by the canons of logic,
to ‘disprove’ the existence of God. In the realm of logic,
if an assertion is not ‘disprovable’ - then the assertion
is granted no standing.

One cannot be called upon to ‘disprove’ the existence of a deity.
This is why belief - in same - is termed “faith,” to begin with.

And, if I’m not mistaken, doesn’t the CC hold that faith is a
gift of grace?

The existence of God is a matter of faith. 'T’were it otherwise, there’d be no need for faith.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Epistle of St. Paul

“Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe” [John 20:29]

reen12
 
What about Prayer?

Why has Prayer been proven time and time again to be a simple fallacy, however many times it was mentioned in the Bible?
 
Einstein believed in God. He was pretty scientifically minded too. Maybe he saw something in science that you don’t.
 
The ‘comfort in numbers’ argument has been used by Theists against me time and time again. That, is not a valid argument.
 
Gump said:
What about Prayer?

Why has Prayer been proven time and time again to be a simple fallacy, however many times it was mentioned in the Bible?
Click to expand...
How has prayer been proven a simple fallacy, many of mine have been answered. You of course will say “prove that they were answered by a God”. While I’ll retort “prove that they were’nt”. Either way, neither of us have proof, but I still have faith!

Peace!
 
Gump said:
The ‘comfort in numbers’ argument has been used by Theists against me time and time again. That, is not a valid argument.
Click to expand...
I pray that God brings others to a place to seek the truth. You came asking questions here at Catholic Answers Forums. In my mind God showed me more proof of his Grace by leading you here. My question is why is it important to you to come here asking questions? That is, if you don’t believe in God? Why does it matter to you what the rest of us believe? or even discuss on these forums? unless it was God’s Grace that brought you here to begin with?🤷
 
Gump said:
The ‘comfort in numbers’ argument has been used by Theists against me time and time again. That, is not a valid argument.
Click to expand...
Of course it is not a valid argument, Even if the whole world population were atheists this would not mean there is no God. Of course this was not what veronica meant so this post is also invalid.

Peace!
 
Bennie_P said:
I pray that God brings others to a place to seek the truth. You came asking questions here at Catholic Answers Forums. In my mind God showed me more proof of his Grace by leading you here. My question is why is it important to you to come here asking questions? That is if you don’t believe in God, why does it matter to you what the rest of us believe? Or even discuss on these forums? unless it was God’s Grace that bropught you here to begin with?
Click to expand...
I don’t think (IMHO) the OP came to ask questions as much as try to debunk our misguided faith. I could be wrong of course, but I don’t think I am. You do make a valid observation however, that God certainly did lead him here. I believe he may learn a thing or two from some of the more intellutauals amoung the religous caste.

I pray that he opens his mind followed by his heart to understand what it is that draws a believer to Christ. Maybe then he can open the door to his heart because God is knocking but does not hear it yet.

Peace!
 
Bennie_P said:
I pray that God brings others to a place to seek the truth. You came asking questions here at Catholic Answers Forums. In my mind God showed me more proof of his Grace by leading you here. My question is why is it important to you to come here asking questions? That is if you don’t believe in God, why does it matter to you what the rest of us believe? Or even discuss on these forums? unless it was God’s Grace that bropught you here to begin with?
Click to expand...
I was brought here by a Google search. Nothing more.

Why is it that a woman who prayed for a mustard stain on her shirt to be removed after it was washed (I can’t find the reference, but if you desire I will try a little harder.) was answered when there are thousands of people starving in Europe and Asia? (Or just poorer households in general)

It matters to me about what the rest of the world believes is because I am not ignorant (or at least not willingfully ignorant.)

I like to discuss these things because it keeps my mind fresh, attentive, and healthy. Not the best thing for doing so, but better than sitting on a couch all day.

Again, as I said before, why would God give time to send me to a Catholic internet online forum when he could be saving those little innocent babies?

Also, please do elaborate further into how Prayer works. Prayer is just a coincidence as well as a delusion. In fact, the amount of times people prayed for in cancer studies had more complicated problems than those who weren’t prayed for.

The Bible clearly states that with even the tiniest of faith (which you require to even pray, since you slightly believe he might possibly exist) that you can move mountains. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that ‘Unless it is his will.’ ‘If you don’t believe hard enough’ etc.
 
quote: Gump
What about Prayer?

Why has Prayer been proven time and time again to be a simple fallacy, however many times it was mentioned in the Bible?
Click to expand...
Reasonable query. The physical reality of cause------>effect obtains, here.
If one is inclined to deny the existence of deity, then any point concerning
prayer is moot------> of logical necessity.

Talking to thin air = prayer.

I can surely appreciate this corrollary to the assertion that god = null set.
If one accepts the existence of God, then prayer is a relational phenomenon,
not a scientific endeavor. There are realms of knowledge. I do not accept
‘scientism,’ while having great respect for the scientific method.

Those of faith, who try to ‘prove’ the existence of God, may offer ‘reasons,’
yet none of these are compelling, logically. Acknowledging the existence of God is a matter of faith, not a matter empirical.

Atheism and religious faith are disjoint sets.

I’m reminded of the great intellect of C.S. Lewis. Lewis did not at all believe in a deity. He stated, years later, that he had hopped onto his motorbike, to go to visit the zoo. He wrote [paraphrase:]

“When I left on my motorbike, I was an atheist. When I arrived, I
believed in the existence of God.”

This anecdote ‘proves’ nothing. No-thing. It is simply the account of one man’s experience.

reen12
 
Gump said:
I was brought here by a Google search. Nothing more. Maybe!

Why is it that a woman who prayed for a mustard stain on her shirt to be removed after it was washed (I can’t find the reference, but if you desire I will try a little harder.) was answered when there are thousands of people starving in Europe and Asia? (Or just poorer households in general) you lost me here, please try to eleborate

It matters to me about what the rest of the world believes is because I am not ignorant (or at least not willingfully ignorant.) I’m certainly not willfully ignorant, but I’m sure there are some subjects I can brush up on.

I like to discuss these things because it keeps my mind fresh, attentive, and healthy. Not the best thing for doing so, but better than sitting on a couch all day.I like to sit on the couch every once and a while… it is much better than the fence!

Again, as I said before, why would God give time to send me to a Catholic internet online forum when he could be saving those little innocent babies? The free will of man, over rides what God wants. This he does because he loves us and wants us to love him!

Also, please do elaborate further into how Prayer works. Prayer is just a coincidence as well as a delusion. In fact, the amount of times people prayed for in cancer studies had more complicated problems than those who weren’t prayed for.
Well as you stated earlier “you are not ignorant” so I’ll assume you already know how prayer works. Can you give some reference to proof about your claim in regards to prayer and cancer. If no proof can be obtained please refrain from giving unsubstantiated so called facts. As theientific minded individual you are, I’m sure you can understand the need to back up all your facts with relative case studies and proof.

The Bible clearly states that with even the tiniest of faith (which you require to even pray, since you slightly believe he might possibly exist) that you can move mountains. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that ‘Unless it is his will.’ ‘If you don’t believe hard enough’ etc.
Click to expand...
Being as you are not ignorant of Catholicism, I’m sure you know that we do not rely only sacred scripture but also Sacred tradition backed by scripture. So I would suggest learning what the Church does teach on this subject before telling us what you think we believe. Thanks!

Peace!
 
Gump said:
I was brought here by a Google search. Nothing more.

Why is it that a woman who prayed for a mustard stain on her shirt to be removed after it was washed (I can’t find the reference, but if you desire I will try a little harder.) was answered when there are thousands of people starving in Europe and Asia? (Or just poorer households in general)

It matters to me about what the rest of the world believes is because I am not ignorant (or at least not willingfully ignorant.)

I like to discuss these things because it keeps my mind fresh, attentive, and healthy. Not the best thing for doing so, but better than sitting on a couch all day.

Again, as I said before, why would God give time to send me to a Catholic internet online forum when he could be saving those little innocent babies?

Also, please do elaborate further into how Prayer works. Prayer is just a coincidence as well as a delusion. In fact, the amount of times people prayed for in cancer studies had more complicated problems than those who weren’t prayed for.

The Bible clearly states that with even the tiniest of faith (which you require to even pray, since you slightly believe he might possibly exist) that you can move mountains. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that ‘Unless it is his will.’ ‘If you don’t believe hard enough’ etc.
Click to expand...
You don’t have any idea what Grace really is… for it is not God forcing His will upon a person, (we all have a free will, that is what so frustrating when another choses to do evil with thier freedom and interfers with our own free will), but giving a gift to the person seeking His truth. sure God could save all the little babies, (and he does to HIs will & purpose) for He loves all equally and in order for each one to have the choice to freely Love HIM, he will not interfer with the women or the doctors or the politicians whom choose not to love as He loves. And when any of us fail to love as we should someone gets hurt…

You sought out to change the world by truth, in your mind, so it seems by challenging God and His followers, you seeked, so He gave you the gift of leading you here to find it, or a least to have a seed or two planted which may grow later, by those that trust (or at least attempt to trust) in Him. IMHO

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him. And I will raise him up in the last day.

**John 6:65 **And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given
him by my Father.

1Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
DRB
 
reen12 said:
quote: Gump

Reasonable query. The physical reality of cause------>effect obtains, here.
If one is inclined to deny the existence of deity, then any point concerning
prayer is moot------> of logical necessity.

Talking to thin air = prayer.

I can surely appreciate this corrollary to the assertion that god = null set.
If one accepts the existence of God, then prayer is a relational phenomenon,
not a scientific endeavor. There are realms of knowledge. I do not accept
‘scientism,’ while having great respect for the scientific method.

Those of faith, who try to ‘prove’ the existence of God, may offer ‘reasons,’
yet none of these are compelling, logically. Acknowledging the existence of God is a matter of faith, not a matter empirical.

Atheism and religious faith are disjoint sets.

I’m reminded of the great intellect of C.S. Lewis. Lewis did not at all believe in a deity. He stated, years later, that he had hopped onto his motorbike, to go to visit the zoo. He wrote [paraphrase:]

“When I left on my motorbike, I was an atheist. When I arrived, I
believed in the existence of God.”

This anecdote ‘proves’ nothing. No-thing. It is simply the account of one man’s experience.

reen12
Click to expand...
Nicely put, 👍
 
Gump said:
ESPECIALLY against the part about God loving us.

I quote directly (well, not entirely, but this is where I will draw my argument from)

godisimaginary.com/i22.htm
Click to expand...
Ahhh! come Gump I was so hoping for a better non-ignorant response than to just show me the website where you think all my guestions will be answered.

I prefer not to run and look on websites such this for a few reasons the biggest being that I worry there will be a counter and my visiting this site would lend to its credibility with advertisers.

I’m sure if you really wanted to dialogue you would have brought along all the back-up info I will require from you.

Having said this I do warn anybody going to this site about visit counters and what they are used for.

Peace!
 
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