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Ronald_E
Guest
Hi Hobble, I don’t think in terms of God saving me from suffering or curing me of an illness. I think of God in terms of guiding me and giving me strength where I am weak and selfish. I look at Jesus and how He would help others through His actions and His harshest words were for those who were in positions of authority who were not living a faith that shows love for one another. He did not cure all people but He did cure people to show them that He is the real thing.I am sorry to hear about your father.
He sounds a lot like mine. A hard worker, never complained, he was always willing to help anyone in need.
But this really does nothing to answer why God would ignore those prayers. It only strengthens my dislike for this “God”. Why would he let people who dedicate their lives to others suffer in such a way? He must have a sick sense of humor.
It seems there’s always two answers. If someone dies, and prayers go unanswered, than it’s because “God works in mysterious ways”. But if they get better, than it means it’s God’s work and he performed a miracle, when usually it’s because our immune system or a doctor saved us.
But the way I see it, he’s just not there. It happens because we are only mortal, there is no divine force that will protect us, unjust things will happen for no reason.
Life is suffering and Jesus gives us the example as to how to live in that suffering. That is what I know about Jesus and His example is what I want to follow.
B
Bennie_P
Guest
Are you sure your mother prayed for your father’s healing? or that his pain would go away?than explain why God didn’t answer my mothers prayers as explained in my post above.
Doesn’t really matter, for in reality you are angry at God for letting your father die such a painful death. The anger is so deep you try to get back at Him by spending all your efforts in proving He doesn’t exist or even better you try to prove if He does then He must be evil. In other words your words express your belief by the anger you bestow upon those that beleive and trust in God. He didn’t make the world as you would have it, so it seems in your mind and thinking, either He doesn’t exist or He is really a mean and angry God. You made God in your own image and your god seems to be very angry and uncarring individual…
May you find peace…
That is my prayer today…
H
Hobble
Guest
I’ve had these beliefs far before my father past away.Are you sure your mother prayed for your father’s healing? or that his pain would go away?
Doesn’t really matter, for in reality you are angry at God for letting your father die such a painful death. The anger is so deep you try to get back at Him by spending all your efforts in proving He doesn’t exist or even better you try to prove if He does then He must be evil. In other words your words express your belief by the anger you bestow upon those that beleive and trust in God. He didn’t make the world as you would have it so either He doesn’t exist or He is really a mean and angry God. You made God in your own image and your god seems to be very angry and uncarring individual…
May you find peace…
That is my prayer today…
If there is a God, it’s hard not to be angry at him just by looking at the world. And it’s hard to respect him, anyone who needs worship in order to help people is incredibly immature.
R
Ronald_E
Guest
Hi Hobble,I’ve had these beliefs far before my father past away.
If there is a God, it’s hard not to be angry at him just by looking at the world. And it’s hard to respect him, anyone who needs worship in order to help people is incredibly immature.
I am angry at the people who do not love as God tells us to love. God does not need our worship. He tells us that worship is useless and that the way we honor Him is to help those in need and that is the way we bring God into the world. Any other way seems to be useless.
B
Bennie_P
Guest
Sorry your pain goes even deeper then I thought. Have you seeked out help with this anger issue?I’ve had these beliefs far before my father past away.
If there is a God, it’s hard not to be angry at him just by looking at the world. And it’s hard to respect him, anyone who needs worship in order to help people is incredibly immature.
H
Hobble
Guest
I don’t have an anger issue. I do have a lot of issues, but anger is not one of them. Or maybe it is. But either way, it’s something I can work through on my own. I don’t need a crutch like religion, I’d only be fooling myself.Sorry your pain goes even deeper then I thought. Have you seeked out help with this anger issue?
When I speak of God I’m speaking hypothetically. He’s as real as Harry Potter.
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Bennie_P
Guest
Really that is hard to believe you are not angry, do you spend as much time disproving Harry Potter as you do God? for many a child believes in Harry Potter, and a quite a few adults, they line up for days to buy the latest Potter books, are you not concerned about those delusions in pop culture too?I don’t have an anger issue. I do have a lot of issues, but anger is not one of them.
When I speak of God I’m speaking hypothetically. He’s as real as Harry Potter.
H
Hobble
Guest
Please, no one believes harry potter is real.Really that is hard to believe you are not angry, do you spend as much time disproving Harry Potter as you do God? for many a child believes in Harry Potter, and a quite a few adults, the line up for days to buy the latest Potter books, are you not concerned about those delusions in pop culture too?
Unfortunately the lie of God is bought by a large amount of the population. Wouldn’t you be concerned if the world were talking to an invisible Harry Potter?
B
Bennie_P
Guest
Well, I don’t go to Harry Potter answers forum and try to disprove he exist or even to dispute the quality of the writtings. Also I don’t go to Athiest forums and try to convert them or call them delusional. So, no I’m not that concerned…Please, no one believes harry potter is real.
Unfortunately the lie of God is bought by a large amount of the population. Wouldn’t you be concerned if the world were talking to an invisible Harry Potter?
H
Hobble
Guest
You may not, and that’s good. I have no problem with you. But there are many catholics who act as if it’s their mission to convert people.Well, I don’t go to Harry Potter answers forum and try to disprove he exist or even to dispute the quality of the writtings. Also I don’t go to Athiest forums and try to convert them or call them delusional. So, no I’m not that concerned…
I came here originally to gain a catholic perspective on things. To understand what they based their beliefs on, and what they thought about current issues. To an extent I was impressed and got along with some. But I’ve also seen a lot of very closed minded and foolish people.
And I realize I’ve been sort of hard headed in this thread. Bringing up things about my father put me in a bad place, and I feel a bad energy growing in me now. So I need to step away and let my head clear, because I don’t want to be closed minded and angry like this.
G
Gump
Guest
Why would we need to help if we knew that the lord almighty would be able to do it, as he is all-powerful, benevolent, and extremely brilliant? Of course, if I had the chance to help someone I would but if there is no visible downside to praying (assuming it actually works) then why not?Hey Les,
How many people do you plan on feeding today - one?
The dictionary states a delusion as 1. (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary 2. a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea; “he has delusions of competence”; “his dreams of vast wealth are a hallucination” noun
etc.
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Veronica7978
Guest
Let me understand this…you are hanging around a Catholic website, day after day, repeating the same nonsense, trying to understand none of what is presented to you, and you are stating that we are delusional.Why would we need to help if we knew that the lord almighty would be able to do it, as he is all-powerful, benevolent, and extremely brilliant? Of course, if I had the chance to help someone I would but if there is no visible downside to praying (assuming it actually works) then why not?
The dictionary states a delusion as noun1. (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary 2. a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea; “he has delusions of competence”; “his dreams of vast wealth are a hallucination”
etc.
I’m not trying to explain prayer to you as I see it’s been clearly explained. You have answers; you cannot see them at this point. What you are doing is waiting for something to enlighten you, otherwise, you wouldn’t keep coming around. Well, there are so many books you can read, search engines you can go to, but you have to “see” as well as “look”.
L
lkddav
Guest
HiHey Les,
How many people do you plan on feeding today - one?
Why do you ask?? What I give to charity is personal.
If your savior is telling the truth in the bible and you prayed for starvation to end, it should end. Correct?
les
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lkddav
Guest
What nonsense would that be. An example please.Let me understand this…you are hanging around a Catholic website, day after day, repeating the same nonsense,
How do you know he is not trying to understand what is presented? The only thing that has been presented so far is personal stories that cannot be proven.trying to understand none of what is presented to you, and you are stating that we are delusional.
It has been shown that prayers do not work.I’m not trying to explain prayer to you as I see it’s been clearly explained.
Translation: I know a deeper truth than you do. When you get as delusional as me you will see it. (how close am i veronica?)You have answers; you cannot see them at this point. What you are doing is waiting for something to enlighten you, otherwise, you wouldn’t keep coming around.
The bible is more than enough to discount your belief as nonsense. Talking snakes, talking donkeys, 950 year old men, the list goes on.Well, there are so many books you can read, search engines you can go to, but you have to “see” as well as “look”.
les
V
Veronica7978
Guest
If you were so worried about the starving, why do you try to stop the faithful? What is the outcome you would like to see from this?Hi
Why do you ask?? What I give to charity is personal.
If your savior is telling the truth in the bible and you prayed for starvation to end, it should end. Correct?
les
Should we loose our faith, that could have deleterious effects on the charity that pours from us. So, you are actually fighting to stop feeding the poor in essence - true?
From Catholic Charities:
Feeding the Hungry
In 2006, over 6.3 million people received food services—accounting for nearly half (47 percent) of the services provided by Catholic Charities nationwide.
Food Services At A Glance
From Charity Navigator on Christian Foundation for Children and Aging (A different Catholic charity)
Organizational Efficiency
Program Expenses 93.7%
Administrative Expenses 3.4%
Fundraising Expenses 2.7%
Fundraising Efficiency $0.02
Revenue
Primary Revenue $90,572,647
Other Revenue $1,338,951
Total Revenue $91,911,598
As you can see, the program expenses of the Catholic charity I listed are at 93.7% - to give you a gage, Orange County United way is at 85%. You can run any charity on Charity Navigator and see how much actually goes to the program and how much goes to administration.
On another note: You suffer from starvation of grace yet you don’t worry a bit about that - which will last for eternity.
P.S. I’m glad to see you showing some semblance of a conversation; however - you’re repeating what’s been said already by Gump.
H
Hobble
Guest
So Catholics can’t help people unless it’s in the name of God? Is that your point? People can’t do good for other people unless they base it off of a religion?If you were so worried about the starving, why do you try to stop the faithful? What is the outcome you would like to see from this?
Should we loose our faith, that could have deleterious effects on the charity that pours from us. So, you are actually fighting to stop feeding the poor in essence - true?
From Catholic Charities:
Feeding the Hungry
In 2006, over 6.3 million people received food services—accounting for nearly half (47 percent) of the services provided by Catholic Charities nationwide.
Food Services At A Glance
From Charity Navigator on Christian Foundation for Children and Aging (A different Catholic charity)
Organizational Efficiency
Program Expenses 93.7%
Administrative Expenses 3.4%
Fundraising Expenses 2.7%
Fundraising Efficiency $0.02
Revenue
Primary Revenue $90,572,647
Other Revenue $1,338,951
Total Revenue $91,911,598
As you can see, the program expenses of the Catholic charity I listed are at 93.7% - to give you a gage, Orange County United way is at 85%. You can run any charity on Charity Navigator and see how much actually goes to the program and how much goes to administration.
On another note: You suffer from starvation of grace yet you don’t worry a bit about that - which will last for eternity.
P.S. I’m glad to see you showing some semblance of a conversation; however - you’re repeating what’s been said already by Gump.
V
Veronica7978
Guest
Don’t be stupid…it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that with a loss of faith, there would be anger, depression, regression, self-centered thinking, selfishness. Come-on.
L
lkddav
Guest
The bible was written by men 2000 years ago that thought the earth was flat. The bible is nonsense.but not understood it
Jesus said 9 times in the gospels if a believer prayed their prayers would be answered. Prayers are not answered, if they were 30,000 people would not starve today.God does not lie
Thank goodness.I am not a bible believer
Living one’s life based in reality is not a delusion.Atheism is the biggest delusion
It would seem that an all powerful GOD would give this faith to me and the other 4 billion who don’t seem to have it. HilariousYou would not have accepted it. And quite many have a longing for faith given to them by God, which is proven by their following of other religions but on cultural context they cannot find the right one.
les
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lkddav
Guest
Hello HobbleYeah, I know he’s imaginary. Which is why I’d like to see one of these delusional people try and explain it. So far they’ve just avoided though. No surprise there.
You are correct. You will not get an explanation. They will keep avoiding it because the only answer is that their savior lied. Prayers don’t work.
les
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