Atheism, and ignoring Jesus

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

=lkddav;3970737]In other words your prayers aren’t getting answered. You will get the same amount of prayers answered if you pray to a milk jug?

No, My payers are all answered. As I said sometimes the answer is no, sometimes its not now, and other times the answer is yes. You have to keep in mind that God is not a genii in a magic lamp that you call out to grant your wishes.

So, you can move a mountain but you can’t stop starvation?

Face it, Jesus lied, about prayer.

Jesus never lied world starvation could be ended today if all people were to live there life as God has said to. Not only that but most all if not all disease would end and there would be no crime. God gave us free will so therefore man continues to make choices that keep all the bad in the world going. The truly sad part is that innocent people get caught in a position of starvation disease and crimes do to the choice of those around them.

True believers have been praying for world peace and the end to starvation for about 2000 years. Your incompetent god has yet to answer those prayers.

You are laying the failure at the wrong foot. It is the failure or man Not God. He has given us everything we need,but we fail to do the right things. see answer above

Onegod. If ONE of the 2 billion Christians can show me evidence of this god I will simply change my mind.

That is the really sad thing the things I see as the evidence you would not except as true evidence you have chosen to be blinded to the truth. I see the mere existence of the world as evidence as know one will ever convince me that is was just the right chemicals came together at the right time life is to complex to have just happened.

Onegod. I am sure you are a good person. BUT, keep in mind, when you are speaking of my ignorance. YOU are the one who believes in magic. Not I.

When I speck of your ignorance I do not mean to say that you are not an intelligent person. You more than likely are smarter the I. To clarify it is you that are looking for a magic fix to the problems of the world. I do hold hold to magic.

ONEGod, one piece of evidence of your god and i will believe. Can you provide it?

I wish there something i could show you that you would except but i have had these type of discussion before and know that it will be dismissed.

You can believe whatever gets you through the day. That is your right, in the U.S.A

les

Well thank you I was just wondering why you cared that people do believe.

 

[Gump]

No, My payers are all answered. As I said sometimes the answer is no, sometimes its not now, and other times the answer is yes. You have to keep in mind that God is not a genii in a magic lamp that you call out to grant your wishes.

Actually, I believe he is. The Bible says very clearly that if you pray with the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains. NOT that if he feels like answering them. You are being fooled, and only an **idiot **would willingly allow himself to be lied to by primitive men.

Jesus never lied world starvation could be ended today if all people were to live there life as God has said to. Not only that but most all if not all disease would end and there would be no crime. God gave us free will so therefore man continues to make choices that keep all the bad in the world going. The truly sad part is that innocent people get caught in a position of starvation disease and crimes do to the choice of those around them.

This is a delusion created by your mind. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention this.

 

[lkddav]

No, My payers are all answered. As I said sometimes the answer is no, sometimes its not now, and other times the answer is yes. You have to keep in mind that God is not a genii in a magic lamp that you call out to grant your wishes.

OneGod. You are contradicting yourself. If your god answers with a no, or not now, your prayers are not being answered.

Jesus never lied world starvation could be ended today if all people were to live there life as God has said to. Not only that but most all if not all disease would end and there would be no crime. God gave us free will so therefore man continues to make choices that keep all the bad in the world going. The truly sad part is that innocent people get caught in a position of starvation disease and crimes do to the choice of those around them.

.
Jesus said 9 times in the gospels if a believer prayed they would get their prayer answered.

The prayers do not get answered.

You are just making excuses for your god.

Jesus lied

That is the really sad thing the things I see as the evidence you would not except as true evidence you have chosen to be blinded to the truth.

Not true. If you show me evidence that god exist I will change my mind.

I see the mere existence of the world as evidence as know one will ever convince me that is was just the right chemicals came together at the right time life is to complex to have just happened.

The answer to how life started on this planet is, We don’t know. There is no reason to eject the supernatural.

When I speck of your ignorance I do not mean to say that you are not an intelligent person. You more than likely are smarter the I. To clarify it is you that are looking for a magic fix to the problems of the world. I do hold hold to magic.

I do not think there is a “magic fix”. to the world’s problems.

If you believe in the bible and a invisible being up in the sky that will answers your prayers… YOU do believe in magic. Correct?

I wish there something i could show you that you would except but i have had these type of discussion before and know that it will be dismissed.

OneGod. There are 2 billion christians on this planet. Don’t you think it says alot about your faith that not one of them can provide evidence of your god?

Well thank you I was just wondering why you cared that people do believe.

I really don’t care what people believe as long as they keep it to themselfs.
I became an outspoken atheist when they started trying to teach ID in schools.
It concerns me that 75% of the nation(USA) believes an invisible man is up in the sky.
It concerns me that the leader of this nation seems to have daily conversations with this being.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe some people on this planet need killin. But would our leader be less likely to send people to war if he didn’t think they were going to heaven if they die?

les

 

[Gump]

les

Likewise to your first point. If people want to keep their beliefs to themself, fine. There are two type of Faiths: People who try to make rationalizations of faith and true believers. People who are ‘true’ believers are people who accept there is no proof of their God. They believe that regardless of whatever evidence and contradictions, there is a God that defies rationalizations. I do not mind those type of people, and I feel that is the true faithful way to live.

The people who reply to this topic in support of God and try to rationalize (like Veronica) that a God “must exist” or such are the people that I argue with. Faith has no place in a rational argument. When you choose to have faith you give up all of your rights to a rational argument with me.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

=Gump;3971313]Actually, I believe he is.

So you do believe in God you just have the wrong picture of who he is.

The Bible says very clearly that if you pray with the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains. NOT that if he feels like answering them. You are being fooled, and only an **idiot **would willingly allow himself to be lied to by primitive men.

The Bible also states not to tempt the Lord your God, and to pray that God’s will not ours be done. As for these primitive men They accomplished the building of structure that we today could not duplicate and have no idea how they did it. There is maybe the possibility that they knew things we today do not?

This is a delusion created by your mind. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention this.

These things are because of sin. sin is going in opposition to the will of God. Therefore if man was to live as God commanded the problems of the world would disappear. Now the problem is that man as a whole is not capable of doing this, because there are always those who think they know more than God and better than God and are not willing to submit to his will.

 

[Jon_S]

OneGod. You are contradicting yourself. If your god answers with a no, or not now, your prayers are not being answered.

If I ask someone for something, and they say “No” then “No” is the answer. The same would apply to “Not right Now” or even “Maybe.”

The prayers do not get answered.

If you are of the opinion that “No” is not an answer, then you might have a point.

You are just making excuses for your god.

He is your God too, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Even when you’ve disowned your earthly parents, they are still your parents.

Jesus lied

Actually, no. The lie comes from many non-Christians who just don’t seem to get the moral of the Biblical story…probably because you’ve never really taken the time to understand it.

The Jews were expecting a political savior who would deliver them from bondage and create a Utopian society here on earth. What Jesus showed us on the cross is that this life is temporary and suffering is part of that. I have suffered in life and faith gets me through it every time. So if Jesus “lied” as you say, then I’m not really sure what it is you think He lied about.

God bless.

-Jon

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

v;3972361]OneGod. You are contradicting yourself. If your god answers with a no, or not now, your prayers are not being answered.

So by your logic the only answer to any question or request is yes. that could cause all kinds of problems

[/QUOT.

Jesus said 9 times in the gospels if a believer prayed they would get their prayer answered.

The prayers do not get answered.

You are just making excuses for your god

Jesus lied

Again Jesus never lied and twisting the Gospel into making God a wish granter that answers to our every whim does not turn the Gospel into a lie.

]Not true. If you show me evidence that god exist I will change my mind.

The answer to how life started on this planet is, We don’t know. There is no reason to eject the supernatural.

and there is no reason to reject the supernatural either. I see that as a person that relies on science you have fallen back on the same answer that we of faith have for the unknown its a mystery"

I do not think there is a “magic fix”. to the world’s problems.

If you believe in the bible and a invisible being up in the sky that will answers your prayers… YOU do believe in magic. Correct?

Know I do not believe in a magic. I believe in God that has abilities that as mere man would seem magic. You are the one that seems to think that the only way for God to be real is to preform a if a stage show to fix everything that man has messed up.

OneGod. There are 2 billion christians on this planet. Don’t you think it says alot about your faith that not one of them can provide evidence of your god?

I think it says more about what you will not except as evidence.

I really don’t care what people believe as long as they keep it to themselfs.
I became an outspoken atheist when they started trying to teach ID in schools.
It concerns me that 75% of the nation(USA) believes an invisible man is up in the sky.
It concerns me that the leader of this nation seems to have daily conversations with this being.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe some people on this planet need killin. But would our leader be less likely to send people to war if he didn’t think they were going to heaven if they die?les

See here I think your not being honest as you do care what people believe because it make you uncomfortable with your lack of belief. Is not the schools a place for presenting the different ideas open up for debate allowing the free exchange of ideas why should any idea of how life came to be be excluded from the schools. And it is that 75% that have created a country where you are free not to believe as they do what I find more troubling is that 25% that try to silence the 75. And you have been troubled by I would say everyman that has been the leader of this country for as far as I know I know of none that denied God. And i am sure that Our current President does not believe all of these men in the service are going to Heaven as there are sinners everywhere in every walk of life and not every one on the service believes in God either.

 

[Gump]

He is your God too, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Even when you’ve disowned your earthly parents, they are still your parents.

Comparing earthly parents and Religion are like comparing PC to a MAC. Both are different and useless arguments.

I believe that my parents exist because I can feel them, I know they exist because I have concrete evidence of them existing. God is faith, obviously.

 

[CGDouglas]

OneGod. You are contradicting yourself. If your god answers with a no, or not now, your prayers are not being answered.

How so? For example:
“Excuse me sir, could I have a glass of water?” says one man, the other replies, “You may not at this moment.” Albeit this is in a different respect, nevertheless, it broadcasts an answer…

.
Jesus said 9 times in the gospels if a believer prayed they would get their prayer answered.

The prayers do not get answered.

Albeit again this is an anecdote account, my prayers have been answered, so I have to disagree with you there.
If I assume correctly, the prayer must be within the will.

You are just making excuses for your god.

We can simply reverse this state and say you are making excuses for the absence of God…

Jesus lied

That is for you to believe, I believe differently…

Not true. If you show me evidence that god exist I will change my mind.

You may again not take anecdotal evidence, but I’m pretty sure those whom have seen Christ, biblical and in vision still doubted.

The answer to how life started on this planet is, We don’t know. There is no reason to eject the supernatural.

I do not think there is a “magic fix”. to the world’s problems.

If you believe in the bible and a invisible being up in the sky that will answers your prayers… YOU do believe in magic. Correct?

Nope, being a believer of the bible, and not an invisible being up in the sky, but an omnipresent essence doesn’t mean I believe in magic, afterall why can’t these answers occur with natural law? (maybe I shouldn’t answer this, but I just saw it here.)

OneGod. There are 2 billion christians on this planet. Don’t you think it says alot about your faith that not one of them can provide evidence of your god?

**This question is to OneGod, but I thought I’d intervene, again, reverse the question…

Don’t you think it says alot about atheism that they can’t disprove the existence of God?**

I really don’t care what people believe as long as they keep it to themselfs.
I became an outspoken atheist when they started trying to teach ID in schools.
It concerns me that 75% of the nation(USA) believes an invisible man is up in the sky.
It concerns me that the leader of this nation seems to have daily conversations with this being.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe some people on this planet need killin. But would our leader be less likely to send people to war if he didn’t think they were going to heaven if they die?
**
Now this is rather annoying, you don’t care what others believe, that is fair enough, but then you contradict yourself in stating that it is a concern that 75% of the U.S.A. believe in God (I assume the statistics assert the Christian God.)

Why should it concern you if your leader talks to God?

As for the ID thing, at least in a religious classroom I guess.**

les

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[CGDouglas]

Comparing earthly parents and Religion are like comparing PC to a MAC. Both are different and useless arguments.

I believe that my parents exist because I can feel them, I know they exist because I have concrete evidence of them existing. God is faith, obviously.

PC and MACs run on an x86 architecture, the core comparison and in the long run, they are the same at the very core, just different make-up. (Sorry, just a random note, but it doesn’t stand as a good analogy.)

You believe your parents exist because you can feel them, faith with reason.

To believe in God I would say would be faith, but I have reason to justify it, which are anecdotal in my case, which I’m sure you’re not interested in.

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[Jon_S]

Comparing earthly parents and Religion are like comparing PC to a MAC. Both are different and useless arguments.

I believe that my parents exist because I can feel them, I know they exist because I have concrete evidence of them existing. God is faith, obviously.

I use a Mac at home and a PC for work. They are very similar in function. One (Mac) is obviously superior to the other, like the difference between your heavenly and earthly fathers, so the argument is hardly useless.

I can feel God, and I know He exists because he has given me concrete evidence. I can’t give you you concrete evidence. God has to do that, and even still, you would have to be willing to accept that evidence. The Bible is full of stories like that.

I know that my parents are actually my parents because that’s what they tell me and they’ve been around for as long as I can remember. Most people have no recollection of their birth, and even some have come to find out that they were adopted, and those people they thought were their biological parents, actually were not. One way or the other, you will know the truth someday.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

=Gump;3972492]Likewise to your first point. If people want to keep their beliefs to themself, fine. There are two type of Faiths: People who try to make rationalizations of faith and true believers. People who are ‘true’ believers are people who accept there is no proof of their God. They believe that regardless of whatever evidence and contradictions, there is a God that defies rationalizations. I do not mind those type of people, and I feel that is the true faithful way to live.

Why should the majority of America have to remain silent about their beliefs just because the minor don’t share that belief? The constitution states that the government shall make no laws to establish nor prohibit the free expression of Religion. I find it very ironic that most every Christian I know would fight for your right to not only not have to practice a religion but to speak out about your disbelief and in opposition to God if that is your wish. Why is it that those of no faith will not stand up for the rights of those with faith to also voice it i the public forum?

The people who reply to this topic in support of God and try to rationalize (like Veronica) that a God “must exist” or such are the people that I argue with. Faith has no place in a rational argument. When you choose to have faith you give up all of your rights to a rational argument with me.

But faith is all any of us have. Be it faith in God or Faith that there is no gods at all. When you dismiss people like that you give up the rights to rational arguments with everyone. as you have closed your mind and are no longer open to listening and exchange ideas.

 

[Gump]

Why should the majority of America have to remain silent about their beliefs just because the minor don’t share that belief? The constitution states that the government shall make no laws to establish nor prohibit the free expression of Religion. I find it very ironic that most every Christian I know would fight for your right to not only not have to practice a religion but to speak out about your disbelief and in opposition to God if that is your wish. Why is it that those of no faith will not stand up for the rights of those with faith to also voice it i the public forum?

But faith is all any of us have. Be it faith in God or Faith that there is no gods at all. When you dismiss people like that you give up the rights to rational arguments with everyone. as you have closed your mind and are no longer open to listening and exchange ideas.

I never said that they had to remain silent. You’re welcome to express your belief, but not justify it. I wasn’t talking in absolutes, I simply meant that I won’t consider your argument valid if it’s pro-Theist. I think you mis-interpreted my post. The same for your second post - the burden of proof lies with you, not me. What can be submitted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I am NOT close-minded. Like I’ve stated previously if we discover alien life with a Religion matching one on Earth (scriptures/drawings depicting Jesus Christ) I would believe on the spot. No questions asked.

 

[Jon_S]

I never said that they had to remain silent. You’re welcome to express your belief, but not justify it. I wasn’t talking in absolutes, I simply meant that I won’t consider your argument valid if it’s pro-Theist. I think you mis-interpreted my post. The same for your second post - the burden of proof lies with you, not me. What can be submitted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I am NOT close-minded. Like I’ve stated previously if we discover alien life with a Religion matching one on Earth (scriptures/drawings depicting Jesus Christ) I would believe on the spot. No questions asked.

Isn’t considering a “pro-theist” statement to be automatically invalid an absolute statement in itself?

As far as your “burden of proof” point, we could easily turn that argument around on you. Prove there is no God and I will join you in your belief immediately.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I read through this thread, and I have been unable to find direct empirical evidence of a God.

Please, enlighten me.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Jon_S:

As far as your “burden of proof” point, we could easily turn that argument around on you. Prove there is no God and I will join you in your belief immediately.

If you’ve heard of Russell’s Teapot, you may understand that the burden of proof rests upon those who make a positive assertion.

 

[Gump]

For those of you whom are unaware, Shredderbeam is my friend and very intelligent as well as an Atheist just like me. This is my trump card. He demonstrates my points as well as enhances them.

 

[Jon_S]

I read through this thread, and I have been unable to find direct empirical evidence of a God.

Please, enlighten me.

I read through this thread also, and I have found no direct empirical evidence that God does not exist.

I went walking through the woods where I live last weekend and I saw the feces of a bear and some tracks leading away from it. A bear was there. I know this based on what he left behind. I never actually saw the bear with my own eyes and I know from other observable yet unrelated evidence that something doesn’t just “appear” out of nowhere.

 

[Jon_S]

If you’ve heard of Russell’s Teapot, you may understand that the burden of proof rests upon those who make a positive assertion.

Since you consider yourself “atheist” then you are making a positive assertion that there is no God. Please show me some empirical evidence of this.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Jon_S:

I read through this thread also, and I have found no direct empirical evidence that God does not exist.

Things that do not exist do not provide evidence of their non-existence.

Jon_S:

I went walking through the woods where I live last weekend and I saw the feces of a bear and some tracks leading away from it. A bear was there. I know this based on what he left behind. I never actually saw the bear with my own eyes and I know from other observable yet unrelated evidence that something doesn’t just “appear” out of nowhere.

Actually, its feces/footprints do count as evidence that it was there.