Atheism, and ignoring Jesus

[Shredderbeam]

Jon_S:

Since you consider yourself “atheist” then you are making a positive assertion that there is no God. Please show me some empirical evidence of this.

I do not believe in God as I do not believe in fairies - there is no evidence of either. I only point out the lack of evidence as my argument.

 

[lkddav]

If I ask someone for something, and they say “No” then “No” is the answer. The same would apply to “Not right Now” or even “Maybe.”

Hello Jon

If you are a believer and pray for example your mother to not die of cancer. The next day your mother dies of cancer. Your prayer was not answered.

If you are of the opinion that “No” is not an answer, then you might have a point.

See above.

He is your God too, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Even when you’ve disowned your earthly parents, they are still your parents.

Could you please provide evidence for this god?

Actually, no. The lie comes from many non-Christians who just don’t seem to get the moral of the Biblical story…probably because you’ve never really taken the time to understand it.

I was a Christian for half my life. I know the biblical story and I understand it. Your savior said if you are a believer your prayers would be answered. That does not happen. If prayer worked the Corsairs children hospital would not be full of dying children.

Jesus lied.

The Jews were expecting a political savior who would deliver them from bondage and create a Utopian society here on earth. What Jesus showed us on the cross is that this life is temporary and suffering is part of that. I have suffered in life and faith gets me through it every time. So if Jesus “lied” as you say, then I’m not really sure what it is you think He lied about.

He lied about answering prayers.

les

 

[Gump]

I do not believe in God as I do not believe in fairies - there is no evidence of either. I only point out the lack of evidence as my argument.

Shredderbeam, may I demonstrate I am no longer Atheist, instead, I am Gumpist. God exists, created all of this land. He has holy scriptures but they are hidden. You have to believe in order for them to appear. When you truly believe you will see the light of His scriptures. Those that do not believe will burn in the Cake incenerator forever. He demands the following:

1. You believe in the Father Gump
2. You follow according to 3)
3. I demand a tribute every week. Every week, you must mail a PayPal order of $50 to tgump@hotmail.com. This is God’s e-mail address. Thank you, and God bless!

 

[Jon_S]

Things that do not exist do not provide evidence of their non-existence.

If there is no evidence either positive or negative, then how do you propose to prove empirically that something does not exists. You claim to be an atheist, not just an agnostic. You are claiming that you definitely do not believe in God. Prove it.

Actually, its feces/footprints do count as evidence that it was there.

What you are admitting to is that something left it there, and the fact that it is there is proof that it did not come from nowhere. Take a look around you and apply that same logic to the concept of a Creator.

 

[Jon_S]

Shredderbeam, may I demonstrate I am no longer Atheist, instead, I am Gumpist. God exists, created all of this land. He has holy scriptures but they are hidden. You have to believe in order for them to appear. When you truly believe you will see the light of His scriptures. Those that do not believe will burn in the Cake incenerator forever. He demands the following:

1. You believe in the Father Gump
2. You follow according to 3)
3. I demand a tribute every week. Every week, you must mail a PayPal order of $50 to tgump@hotmail.com. This is God’s e-mail address. Thank you, and God bless!

I see you are only interested in sarcasm and condescension, rather than a heartfelt conversation.

God bless.

-Jon

 

[Gump]

I see you are only interested in sarcasm and condescension, rather than a heartfelt conversation.

God bless.

-Jon

I see you misinterpret my posts so well. I simply copied many of Christianity/Catholicism’s beliefs and turned them into my own rendition. You know that offering plate at Church? See 3).

I am using examples, not sarcasm, to prove my point. Learn the difference.

 

[Hobble]

What you are admitting to is that something left it there, and the fact that it is there is proof that it did not come from nowhere. Take a look around you and apply that same logic to the concept of a Creator.

There is strong evidence of where we came from, both on Earth and in space. Most of it completely contradicts and debunks what the bible claims.

Although I’m sure like most Christians you will deny the evidence of our origins, in favor of the bibles version despite the fact that there is no evidence to back it up.

 

[Jon_S]

I see you misinterpret my posts so well. I simply copied many of Christianity/Catholicism’s beliefs and turned them into my own rendition. You know that offering plate at Church? See 3).

I am using examples, not sarcasm, to prove my point. Learn the difference.

Excellent back peddle. Good day.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Jon_S:

If there is no evidence either positive or negative, then how do you propose to prove empirically that something does not exists. You claim to be an atheist, not just an agnostic. You are claiming that you definitely do not believe in God. Prove it.

I do not propose to disprove God empirically. I could try in an a priori fashion, using the omnipotence argument, but it is unnecessary, quite unnecessary.

I disbelieve in God as I disbelieve in fairies. I acknowledge that it is logically possible that both of them may exist, however.

Jon_S:

What you are admitting to is that something left it there, and the fact that it is there is proof that it did not come from nowhere. Take a look around you and apply that same logic to the concept of a Creator.

An interesting argument. You are correct in that something cannot come from nothing, yet, that would be the case even if a creator was involved. Unless the universe was without beginning or end, of course.

 

[Jon_S]

There is strong evidence of where we came from, both on Earth and in space. Most of it completely contradicts and debunks what the bible claims.

Although I’m sure like most Christians you will deny the evidence of our origins, in favor of the bibles version despite the fact that there is no evidence to back it up.

Strong evidence does not equate conclusive proof, and just so you are aware, most Catholics I know are not “Six Day Creationists” and neither am I.

If you’re talking about the Big Bang Theory, please keep in mind that that was first introduced by a French Catholic priest.

 

[Jon_S]

I do not propose to disprove God empirically. I could try in an a priori fashion, using the omnipotence argument, but it is unnecessary, quite unnecessary.

I disbelieve in God as I disbelieve in fairies. I acknowledge that it is logically possible that both of them may exist, however.

Then you are not really an atheist.

An interesting argument. You are correct in that something cannot come from nothing, yet, that would be the case even if a creator was involved. Unless the universe was without beginning or end, of course.

I’m only speaking of material existence. It is not the universe that I am suggesting is without beginning or end.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Jon_S:

Then you are not really an atheist.

The average person will dismiss Santa Claus, and reasonably so, but if they have any philosophical knowledge, they will acknowledge that the concept is logically possible.

Jon_S:

I’m only speaking of material existence. It is not the universe that I am suggesting is without beginning or end.

Well, matter certainly cannot be created or destroyed, so I am loathe to think that it did not exist at one point. Perhaps some of the principles of entropy are incorrect, and the universe has been around forever, or perhaps the big bang/big crunch model has been recurrent throughout infinity. I don’t know for sure.

 

[Jon_S]

The average person will dismiss Santa Claus, and reasonably so, but if they have any philosophical knowledge, they will acknowledge that the concept is logically possible.

Atheism absolutely denies the existence of an deity. You are not really an atheist.

Well, matter certainly cannot be created or destroyed, so I am loathe to think that it did not exist at one point. Perhaps some of the principles of entropy are incorrect, and the universe has been around forever, or perhaps the big bang/big crunch model has been recurrent throughout infinity. I don’t know for sure.

If you don’t know for sure, then it seems awfully misguided of you to criticize people for believing in something without any direct, conclusive, and empirical evidence. The fact that human beings cannot either create or destroy matter is certainly not a valid point in my mind.

 

[lkddav]

So by your logic the only answer to any question or request is yes. that could cause all kinds of problems

Jesus said all prayers would be answered. If you get a “no” your prayer was not answered.

If your prayers got answered what kind of problems would that create?

Again Jesus never lied and twisting the Gospel into making God a wish granter that answers to our every whim does not turn the Gospel into a lie.

It’s your bible that says this. I am not making this up. Read the four gospels. It’s plain as day.

and there is no reason to reject the supernatural either. I see that as a person that relies on science you have fallen back on the same answer that we of faith have for the unknown its a mystery"

YES, there is a reason to reject the supernatural. There is no evidence that it is real.

Know I do not believe in a magic. I believe in God that has abilities that as mere man would seem magic. You are the one that seems to think that the only way for God to be real is to preform a if a stage show to fix everything that man has messed up.

If you believe what is in the bible you believe in magic.

I think it says more about what you will not except as evidence.

I will accept something that me and three more people can measure, study, examine and come to the same conclusion.
Yes, God is real.

See here I think your not being honest as you do care what people believe because it make you uncomfortable with your lack of belief.

I would feel more comfortable if 75% of the country didn’t believe in something that their was no evidence for.

Is not the schools a place for presenting the different ideas open up for debate allowing the free exchange of ideas why should any idea of how life came to be be excluded from the schools.

I have no problem with schools teaching ID. As long as they teach it as a Myth and not science.

And it is that 75% that have created a country where you are free not to believe as they do what I find more troubling is that 25% that try to silence the 75.

I don’t know if it’s true that the 25% is trying to silence the 75%.
The problem is that the 75% believes in things that are not provable.

And you have been troubled by I would say everyman that has been the leader of this country for as far as I know I know of none that denied God. And i am sure that Our current President does not believe all of these men in the service are going to Heaven as there are sinners everywhere in every walk of life and not every one on the service believes in God either.

I will agree.

les

 

[narrowpath]

The bible isn’t a science book. What would the people of 4000 years ago have said if Moses preached “All matter exploded from a single point and over billions of years formed planets and stars…etc” There are metaphors in the bible. It does say that humans came from the Earth “and the earth brought forth…”. Evolution says the same. We came from the primordial slime of early earth. I see no contradictions between what science proves and what is written in the bible. And remember, most of the early scientists were catholic priests (Father Mendel, the father of genetics, for one).

 

[CGDouglas]

Hello Jon

If you are a believer and pray for example your mother to not die of cancer. The next day your mother dies of cancer. Your prayer was not answered.

The prayer could have simply been answered, and God could of simply said “No”.

See above.

Could you please provide evidence for this god?
Reversing the question, provide evidence against God in general, heck, even a Deist.

I was a Christian for half my life. I know the biblical story and I understand it. Your savior said if you are a believer your prayers would be answered. That does not happen. If prayer worked the Corsairs children hospital would not be full of dying children.

Jesus lied.

Think contextually, If I prayed that Jesus wouldn’t save us from our sins, God’s plan and will is more of a priority. Not to mention the mere selfishness of my prayer,

He lied about answering prayers.

I don’t see how you can make an arguement based upon misfortunes against fortunes.
We have the hospital full of dying children, which is rather saddening, and we an amount of children who aren’t dying, you are arguing a selective, those whom are dying, what about the percentage of whom are healthy? Is there no answer upon this part?

les

 

[Shredderbeam]

Jon_S:

Atheism absolutely denies the existence of an deity. You are not really an atheist.

Atheism is the denial of God’s existence. Whether denial is taken to mean absolute or reasonable is up for debate. With the qualifier that my denial is reasonable, I am an atheist.

Jon_S:

If you don’t know for sure, then it seems awfully misguided of you to criticize people for believing in something without any direct, conclusive, and empirical evidence. The fact that human beings cannot either create or destroy matter is certainly not a valid point in my mind.

I am criticizing their belief in something that has no supporting evidence. I am not trying to assert how the universe came into being.

 

[Ronald_E]

Hi Les, The only thing that really matters when we get down to the basic truth of God is Love. We can have all sorts of philosophical and theological discussions about the existence of God but without the foundation of Love we have no chance of discovering the existence or non-existence of God.
Love cannot be measured but the result of it can be observed.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I can not provide evidence of love just show the effects.
I can not prove hate but can show the effects.

I can not prove or disprove life anywhere else in this universe but that does not mean that there is not life out there.

All I know is that God, El Shaddi. is the Lord the giver of Life creator of all that is seen and unseen. That Jesus is the only begotten son for God and are savior. I can not Prove them, but I know them as truth.

For you that can not except or refuse to see the evidence of God in the world around you I feel real sorrow. May God move upon your soul and open your eyes to a world beyond that which is provable in a lab or court of law.

I have a friend that is an Atheist we have the most wonderful discussion about God, the more he argues against God the more I believe, I wish that those who are Atheistic that come here could show the same openness and passion for honest discussion that he has instead of the closed mind and unmovable stance that many that come here show.

 

[Gump]

I have a friend that is an Atheist we have the most wonderful discussion about God, the more he argues against God the more I believe, I wish that those who are Atheistic that come here could show the same openness and passion for honest discussion that he has instead of the closed mind and unmovable stance that many that come here show.

You are mistaken. Many, many Atheists are open-minded and willing to have a real discussion about Religion. Such a statement is, hypocritically, close-minded in itself.