Atheism is now a Religion

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AnAtheist:
An atheist need not to do anything of that kind. He just has to look at the facts, use his brain, and come to a conclusion.

I wonder why religious people insist on non-religous people being religous too. And claiming that they have “other” gods, like money, science, whatever. That is psychologically interesting. Is it to justify their own superstitions? Is it because they can’t comprehend other mindsets?
In our previous discussion I said:
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Maranatha:
That’s not exactly true. Atheists need to be believe in Scientism which sees science as the absolute and only justifiable access to the truth.
You replied:
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AnAtheist:
While it is most likely true, that most Atheists see science as the only justifiable access to the truth, I count myself among them, …
I responded:
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Maranatha:
Your problem then is that Science can not prove Scientism. You have to take Scientism on faith.
My statement still stands. You haven’t admitted that your faith is part of your prejudice which precludes the conclusion of theism as a possibility.
 
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b_justb:
Both require faith to say in earnest and integrity. God cannot be proven (despite what the Summa has to say on the matter) therefore He cannot be disproven.

-B.
This depends on what you mean by proven.

Is there a scientific laboratory test that can repeatedly demonstrate the existence of God? – No, Science is limited to this universe.

Can we use logic and reason to prove God’s existence beyond a shadow of a doubt? – No, but there is almost nothing that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt since it’s impossible to use logic to prove the existence of reality.

Can we (and does the Summa) prove God existence beyond a reasonable doubt? - Yes, if you can look at the logic and the data objectively.
 
I think it is the lack of facts that lead a person to becoming atheist, the lack of sensory or cognitive stimulation, which is a lower-level human process when we consider the non-physical nature of belief. When Jesus says blessed are those that see and do not believe he is speaking of this.

For some reason, an atheist posits the possibility of there being no God, I am assuming (correct me if I am wrong) because one cannot prove that God exists. But to prove something there must be a plausible criteria for proof that allows that proof to expose itself under its conditions. Because an atheist denies a God to exist, he does not allow the proof to be made manifest.

This is akin to saying water does not exist, and to prove my point I will show you a desert.

For one to prove that God does not exist, he would have to give God a means of existence, that is, a platform under the context of what God is. Once again, because the atheist adheres to the non-existence of God, he will never see that proof for he gives no creditibility to any “manifestation” of God.

And I don’t know about this polytheism business. Obviously that person is not very clear on theology.

God bless,
Aaron
 
GKC once said that it must be a sad moment when an atheist is really thankful and have no one to thank.
 
Gilbert Keith said:
An atheist need not to do anything of that kind. He just has to look at the facts, use his brain, and come to a conclusion.

And what facts lead a person to become an atheist?

I don’t want to repeat all the facts and reasons, there are plenty of other threads discussing that.

Just because believers need to make a leap of faith does not mean, non-believers must do the same. The fallacy is called *tu quoque, *I think.
 
Gilbert Keith:
AGAIN:

WHAT FACTS LEAD A PERSON TO BECOME AN ATHEIST?
I didn’t want to hijack the thread, but as you are shouting aloud for it…
  • lack of empirical evidence
  • logically impossible attributes
  • the universe can be explained without gods
these more apply to the connected religions than the gods themselves, but anyway religions are the ones propagating their gods:
  • contradicting attributes
  • wrongly recorded history
  • rituals claiming having an effect (unobservable of course)
  • inconsitent Weltanschauung
Not to mention, that religions contradict each other. Though that is a weak argument for someone, who believes his particular religion is the one, which got it right.
 
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AnAtheist:
An atheist need not to do anything of that kind. He just has to look at the facts, use his brain, and come to a conclusion.

I wonder why religious people insist on non-religous people being religous too. And claiming that they have “other” gods, like money, science, whatever. That is psychologically interesting. Is it to justify their own superstitions? Is it because they can’t comprehend other mindsets?
But your conclusions are not infallible;) We only want you to be Religious too because we love you:) Superstitions to you,to us faith:) No it is faith, btw I missed you,glad to see you posting again.God Bless,Lisa
 
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aaronjmagnan:
But to prove something there must be a plausible criteria for proof that allows that proof to expose itself under its conditions. Because an atheist denies a God to exist, he does not allow the proof to be made manifest.
What one gets beside some philosophical attempts to prove or better to say to make a reasonal basis for the existence of gods, is anecdotal evidence, in Christianity namely gospels, miracles, tradition.
To behold that evidence to be true, one must trust the one claiming to have experienced it. In other words, the source must be credible. For my part I can’t think of any credible source.

The Bible? Full of errors and contradictions.
The Gospels? They don’t even get Jesus’ birthday right, and that’s the believable part of the whole story.
The Church? Considering what it has done in the past, no comment on what I expect it to be capable of regarding false and faked evidence.
This is akin to saying water does not exist, and to prove my point I will show you a desert.
Yes, there is a intrinsic problem with showing non-existing things.

It would help, if theists would show the water instead of showing people (mostly long dead) claiming to have seen the water.
 
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AnAtheist:
What one gets beside some philosophical attempts to prove or better to say to make a reasonal basis for the existence of gods, is anecdotal evidence, in Christianity namely gospels, miracles, tradition.
To behold that evidence to be true, one must trust the one claiming to have experienced it. In other words, the source must be credible. For my part I can’t think of any credible source.

The Bible? Full of errors and contradictions.
The Gospels? They don’t even get Jesus’ birthday right, and that’s the believable part of the whole story.
The Church? Considering what it has done in the past, no comment on what I expect it to be capable of regarding false and faked evidence.

Yes, there is a intrinsic problem with showing non-existing things.

It would help, if theists would show the water instead of showing people (mostly long dead) claiming to have seen the water.
I am still praying that your angel wakes you up one night:)
 
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AnAtheist:
It would help, if theists would show the water instead of showing people (mostly long dead) claiming to have seen the water.
Now rephrase this as a statement of fact.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
I am still praying that your angel wakes you up one night:)
That was very good Lisa:clapping: But I am sure he will not be expecting it until it actually happens to him.😉
 
[/quote]

A fact makes theists become atheists and keeps atheists that way.
 
Well I guess atheists are gonna want to have their own schools :confused: …oh, excuse me, that’s the public school system! :rolleyes:
 
SORRY: NO CIGAR:

*I didn’t want to hijack the thread, but as you are shouting aloud for it…
  • lack of empirical evidence
  • logically impossible attributes
  • the universe can be explained without gods
these more apply to the connected religions than the gods themselves, but anyway religions are the ones propagating their gods:
  • contradicting attributes
  • wrongly recorded history
  • rituals claiming having an effect (unobservable of course)
  • inconsitent Weltanschauung
Not to mention, that religions contradict each other. Though that is a weak argument for someone, who believes his particular religion is the one, which got it right.*

None of these statements is a fact. Every one of them is an opinion very much in doubt. A fact leads no room for doubt.

for example:

lack of empirical evidence

Much room for doubt here. The Bible says the universe was created. So does modern science (the Big Bang). The Bible says the universe fulfills God’s design. Science today is very much unsettled about the possibility of Intelligent Design. Even some atheists are getting won over.

The rest of your list follows the sameway:

All speculation and no facts.
 
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AnAtheist:
What one gets beside some philosophical attempts to prove or better to say to make a reasonal basis for the existence of gods, is anecdotal evidence, in Christianity namely gospels, miracles, tradition.

The Bible? Full of errors and contradictions.
The Gospels? They don’t even get Jesus’ birthday right, and that’s the believable part of the whole story.
The Church? Considering what it has done in the past, no comment on what I expect it to be capable of regarding false and faked evidence.

Yes, there is a intrinsic problem with showing non-existing things.

It would help, if theists would show the water instead of showing people (mostly long dead) claiming to have seen the water.
Good shot, but you still miss it. You have never had the water, thus, you think it does not exist. I have experienced God. Or as Thomas Aquinas says, I have experienced events, whose cause I call God.

You see, the issue you have is with the text of the scriptures, assuming that we treat the text as perfect in every way. The text, as my Instructor taught me, is more like the script, while we live the film.

To bring up the idea of contradiction is a rather banal jab, as Catholics make no claim to consistency in anything other than Truth, which is made manifest in type. The Gospels give different accounts of the same story. The actual story is believed to have happened, and the Gospels are said to have been written under divine inspiration, not adherence man’s historical cravings. But where is this passage that mentions his birthday?

Jesus corrected the old testament, the hardening of hearts (see the catechism section on matrimony) and he fulfilled the prophecies of the Messiah.
To behold that evidence to be true, one must trust the one claiming to have experienced it. In other words, the source must be credible. For my part I can’t think of any credible source.
See, you lack belief, therefore you cannot enter into the discussion of the logic of belief and understand it. What you do believe is what you just said: one must trust.

One trusts any source, and credibility is of the most improbable of all things that could be proven by man. You might trust Tacitus in his description of the Germans. But you will not trust someone who considers God exists.

My suggestion was to look for God, then tell me he does not exist. So far you have not looked for him, and thus your personal evidence is missing.

I do not base my faith on the fact that someone wrote it once. Scripture delineates what I have understood, and history proves the lineage of what I understand. But the main convincing factor for my conversion to Catholicism was divine intervention, something that does not require credible sources.

God bless,
Aaron
 
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AnAtheist:
Just because believers need to make a leap of faith does not mean, non-believers must do the same. The fallacy is called *tu quoque, *I think.
You make a leap of faith when you believe in Scientism because it’s un-provable. Since you refuse to acknowledge your leap of faith your logic is inconsistent and your conclusions are not reasonable.

Once someone recognizes where they make their leap of faith (and everyone, except true agnostics, make this leap) then you can decide in which direction you want to leap.
 
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AnAtheist:
It would help, if theists would show the water instead of showing people (mostly long dead) claiming to have seen the water.
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aaronjmagnan:
Good shot, but you still miss it. You have never had the water, thus, you think it does not exist. I have experienced God. Or as Thomas Aquinas says, I have experienced events, whose cause I call God.
Thus coming full circle.
 
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