Atheism is unnatural

[Magnanimity]

Given that at any point in human history, over 95% of people worldwide were/are theistic, it then follows that atheism is unnatural to the human experience.

It’s a tautology. If we say that 95% of people do X then that is the same as saying that doing X is natural (which entails that not doing X is unnatural). And it doesn’t answer the question of whether the-doing-of-X is good for humanity.

But I will say that being in a tiny minority is never quite comfortable. In this regard, atheism is as statistically widespread as something like young Earth creationism, if considered on a global scale. Tiny minority. However, atheists have the advantage of quite a few of their members being academics (PhD’s), at least among scientists, likely much moreso than YEC’s.

 

[Nyx]

If you could go back 600 years in the past and tell people someday the life expectancy in some places will be over 80 years and less than 5 infants will die for every 1000 who will live ( in some places), the vast majority will say this is way too far fetched . Does that means this life is unnatural to human experience?

 

[Freddy]

I used to post frequently on atheist/secular forums and sometimes still do, but it does get tiring to expose oneself to verbal abuse (the insults are a lot worse than anything you’ll see here) and face the same arguments over and over again. Some forums are more civil than others, but really, philosophy can only go so far anyway.

I have never understood the concept of an atheist forum. They appear to me to be just places where those who class themselves as atheists can vent. And the level of abuse can be extraordinary.

I was going to apologise for them but I don’t have anything to apologise for. An atheist forum only represents the members of that forum. They don’t represent me.

Actually I remember joining one a number of years ago and I posted as a Christian. And played the Devil’s Advocate in arguing for the existence of God. It helped me understand the arguments a lot better. And I don’t mind foregoing Queensbury’s Rules and going bare knuckled and dirty but even I was taken aback by the vitriol. It wasn’t a pleasant experience.

 

[littlebird]

Hopefully in time †

 

[littlebird]

The existence of God is not intelligence dependent. Preferring or appealing to the thoughts of brilliant minds may program, direct or close off your own mind in many ways.

 

[Pattylt]

I’m agnostic and i absolutely agree with you! I once heard a scientist speak on the phenomenon of some scientists not being able to let go of a hypothesis that had been proven wrong. It seems the more intelligent you are, the better your ability to rationalize away objections to your ideas. We’re all human and tend to fool ourselves and smart people can be better at it!

 

[fide]

So when we say we are ‘atheists’ we mean ‘we see no evidence of the existence of god(s) and nothing to suggest their existence is in any way more likely than the existence of any other being in which humans have believed without it being observable’.

The kind of faith that depends on evidence that you can “see” is not the kind of faith that really counts. Such faith could be called “natural” faith - perceived, received by natural means. The faith that really matters, that is of potentially eternal significance, is a supernatural reality - it is as the Letter to the Hebrews says, concerning realities not seen:

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

The distinction between natural and supernatural faith is also clarified by whether a person comes into this faith by reasoning, by logic, by persuasion due to some respected or charismatic or beloved person or parent or friend, for some examples. All of these ways of coming into [natural] faith can be said to be “by works” - the actions or efforts of the man himself.

Faith having potentially eternal significance, being supernatural, is not of works but is a gift freely given, by God Himself. This is also testified to in Scripture:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—
Eph 2:9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

So - seeking faith that is natural - that is a work of one’s own doing - remains a human work and is not what can bring communion with the living God (salvation). The faith that is the longing of the human heart, to fill that place made only for God in the soul, is purely a gift - and indeed a surprise, a great mystery, being in essence supernatural.

 

[FrancisFan43]

Funny enough, most atheists believe in God enough to hate Him with a fiery passion. How can one devote so much time and emotion to someone that supposedly doesn’t exist?

 

[FiveLinden]

The kind of faith that depends on evidence that you can “see” is not the kind of faith that really counts. Such faith could be called “natural” faith - perceived, received by natural means. The faith that really matters, that is of potentially eternal significance, is a supernatural reality - it is as the Letter to the Hebrews says, concerning realities not seen

Yes, it is in the nature of being an atheist that we do not have faith.

Funny enough, most atheists believe in God enough to hate Him with a fiery passion. How can one devote so much time and emotion to someone that supposedly doesn’t exist?

In my experience, this claim is completely untrue.

Most of my family, friends and workmates are atheists and as far as I know I am the only one with any interest at all in god(s). The others have as much interest in god(s) as they do in Etruscan pottery. They might glance at something to do with it but not for more than a couple of seconds.

To the others such beliefs are of no interest. I know a couple of people who hate religion(s) as a result of personal experience, but no one who hates ‘God’. No doubt there are some as human ingenuity of thought is boundless. But I have yet to meet one.

 

[rosejmj]

An atheist or agnostic may have one been religious or may be interested in religion. Religion is fascinating (any religion) especially to someone on the outside because you wonder WHY these people believe the religion and how it affects their way of thinking and viewing the world. It’s so interesting

 

[Freddy]

Funny enough, most atheists believe in God enough to hate Him with a fiery passion. How can one devote so much time and emotion to someone that supposedly doesn’t exist?

Yeah. Kinda ridiculous, eh?

 

[JMMJ]

Actually I remember joining one a number of years ago and I posted as a Christian. And played the Devil’s Advocate in arguing for the existence of God. It helped me understand the arguments a lot better. And I don’t mind foregoing Queensbury’s Rules and going bare knuckled and dirty but even I was taken aback by the vitriol. It wasn’t a pleasant experience.

I have found that most members have been deeply traumatized by organized religion at some point in their lives and use the atheist forum as a way to vent and “get it all out”. Definitely not pretty, but maybe necessary for them to be able to move on, eventually.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Years ago I read somewhere a quote that stuck with me. Now I want to share it here and see what you think:
Given that at any point in human history, over 95% of people worldwide were/are theistic, it then follows that atheism is unnatural to the human experience.

Bishop Barron is always saying that we seek God, our natures are built to seek a higher being. The Atheist has found what he/she thinks is God in himself. The pagan, in whatever he/she worships.

 

[Dan_Defender]

So when we say we are ‘atheists’ we mean ‘we see no evidence of the existence of god(s) and nothing to suggest their existence is in any way more likely than the existence of any other being in which humans have believed without it being observable’.

But then of course that begs the question of how do atheists find meaning in their lives. Because as Nietzsche pointed out, there is no reason for morality as there are no consequences. Yes I am aware that atheists can be moral, but how can an atheist justify morality?

 

[Dan_Defender]

the premise (95% of people are/were theistic) is irrelevant, and the naturalness or unnaturalness of atheism doesn’t necessarily follow from it.

ok but it is a valid point still, because it means that a person has to force him/herself to become an atheist, it does not come naturally, otherwise it would happen more often.

 

[JMMJ]

Yes I am aware that atheists can be moral, but how can an atheist justify morality?

I don’t think they need to. They don’t have that need.

Most are very moral people. They understand the importance of strong values and morals. They just don’t need to justify it to anyone but themselves.

 

[niceatheist]

FrancisFan43:

Funny enough, most atheists believe in God enough to hate Him with a fiery passion. How can one devote so much time and emotion to someone that supposedly doesn’t exist?

Yeah. Kinda ridiculous, eh?

That seems like a broad and sweeping claim. I’m not angry at God. I don’t actually accept the existence of God at all, so being mad at him would be like being mad, from my point of view, at Santa Claus.

 

[Dan_Defender]

The atheists reply to this is that humanity needs to grow up.

Sorry this doesn’t seem to make sense to me. Humanity has advanced quite far technologically and otherwise so not sure where the goalpost is as far as ‘growing up’.

 

[niceatheist]

Thom18:

the premise (95% of people are/were theistic) is irrelevant, and the naturalness or unnaturalness of atheism doesn’t necessarily follow from it.

ok but it is a valid point still, because it means that a person has to force him/herself to become an atheist, it does not come naturally, otherwise it would happen more often.

So you don’t think family and social influence play a role here?

 

[FiveLinden]

But then of course that begs the question of how do atheists find meaning in their lives. Because as Nietzsche pointed out, there is no reason for morality as there are no consequences. Yes I am aware that atheists can be moral, but how can an atheist justify morality?

My morality is a result of decisions I make and of consensus decisions in my community. This is also the way theists make moral decisions but they believe they are in some way influenced by god(s).

As for ‘meaning’ in my life I don’t find any need to seek ‘meaning’ beyond what is apparent to me as a result of hesitations in which I find myself. People say ‘there must be a purpose to life’. I say ‘why’? There could only be a purpose if I was someone else’s creation, in which case the purpose would not be mine, but theirs.