Atheism - Paradox

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Eleve said:
would she have a responsibility to get pregnant?
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Well, I don’t know. Why would she? No, that gets into creating life. It’s all about interference in the process of life. Whether it is creation or termination.
 
josie_L said:
I’m beginning to see that now.
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To be religious you must be willing to ignore reason (assuming you’re intelligent to begin with). The moment you start considering the merits of reason, it’s the beginning of the end for religion in your life!😛
 
Eleve said:
Has desire to divorce gone up, or only divorce? I do not consider the freedom of people to end harmful relationships to be a bad thing.

“I” am not a “her,” I am indeed “uncertain” (I am more interested in happycatholic’s explanation of punishment before Christ vs. grace afterwards, etc., than I let on, and I wouldn’t still be here if I weren’t willing to learn from people like him/her and Josie), and I “wonder” why you use so many “quotation marks.”
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Your a guy. Sheeesh, I was under the impression that you were a girl. Eleve in french, by the way, means student, is that why you chose this as your username?
 
humble_in_doubt said:
To be religious you must be willing to ignore reason (assuming you’re intelligent to begin with). The moment you start considering the merits of reason, it’s the beginning of the end for religion in your life!
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I choose God’s reason over your rhetoric Francis.
 
josie_L said:
Oh my Francis, but you’re so romantic!
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I know too many soldiers who have been screwed over by ex-wives. If marriage were contractual then infidelity would be a breach of contract & fault would be re-infused into the equation. Sure, it would remove the states power over licensure of marriage – but I just don’t think the state should have that sort of power over our lives anyway.
 
Still, she has ended the human race. How could she have done that if the unborn child had not been a continuance (however short as you so aptly pointed out) of the human race?
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The unborn child is not the entirety of the human race. The end itself occurs much later than the abortion, at the death of the last surviving human.

Do you expect to change my mind by trapping me into referring to a fetus in terms of an independent person? I said “unborn child” in the last paragraph because I see no sense in using language that upsets you. That choice of words does not indicate my moral principles, except for my moral principle that hurtful language should be avoided under civil circumstances.
And, if there were another man who was not the father left, would he not do everything he could to save the child? Would he then consider the unborn child to be just a jumble of worth-less cells, not worthy of saving?
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Well, if I were the man, I would be perfectly content to let the mother make her choice. That some other man might not respect her decision does not mean that I myself regard the fetus as a human life.

Note that I do not consider a fetus to be worthless (a judgment that precludes the mother’s right to preserve whatever is inside or part of her body), nor a jumble of cells (a factually incorrect description of testable scientific nature).
You’re subjective view again gets you into relative morality. I don’t mean to be confrontational, but if there were not objective morality to tell us murder is always wrong and that murder is the termination of life, then we would have to rely on our own subjective POV. We don’t. God says the termination of a human life is wrong.
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I agree that murder is always wrong, although I agree with humble’s assessment that murder is by definition “killing that is wrong.” It’s been established well enough in this thread that God has, at some times and under some circumstances, willingly allowed killing.
He doesn’t say a human life begins when it actually looks and functions as a human. Human life begins in the womb if it doesn’t then where does it begin?
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I don’t believe in God, so I don’t think that he actually says anything about when human life begins. Why, then, shouldn’t I say that it begins at the emergence of human mental functions?
 
Eleve said:
Because I am not society, and there are five people in our society who do believe in God for every one who does not.

However the civil rights movement succeeded, it is an example of something that has improved in society since the supposed advent of godlessness.
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You are a member of the human society by birth, not by choice.

So, let’s say that you are correct and 5 people claim that God exists for every 1 person who claims that He does not exist:

If we delineate between those persons who claim that God exists (but do not obey His commandments) and those persons who actually obey Him as proof of belief in Him, then I think that the numbers would be 4 disobedient to 1 obedient.

And since they are not obeying God’s commandments, I would classify them as godless so that would be about 5 godless to 1 who believes and obeys God and so society now reflects this 5 to 1 ratio pretty accurately with 1 representing the God-fearing Christian.

So, the actions of this 5 to 1 society have given us the mess that we all have to live with now, whether we are of the 5 or the 1. The consequences of society’s behavior touches all of us, whether we are at fault for the sins of this society, or not at fault.
 
Hope3 said:
You are a member of the human society by birth, not by choice.

So, let’s say that you are correct and 5 people claim that God exists for every 1 person who claims that He does not exist:

If we delineate between those persons who claim that God exists (but do not obey His commandments) and those persons who actually obey Him as proof of belief in Him, then I think that the numbers would be 4 disobedient to 1 obedient.

And since they are not obeying God’s commandments, I would classify them as godless so that would be about 5 godless to 1 who believes and obeys God and so society now reflects this 5 to 1 ratio pretty accurately with 1 representing the God-fearing Christian.

So, the actions of this 5 to 1 society have given us the mess that we all have to live with now, whether we are of the 5 or the 1. The consequences of society’s behavior touches all of us, whether we are at fault for the sins of this society, or not at fault.
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where you run into problems is when you start actually looking at the numbers and realize that atheists are by far better behaved and more productive citizens than the average Christian. Please demand that I begin quoting these numbers (I have my own apologetic warehouse too :p)!
 
humble_in_doubt said:
I know too many soldiers who have been screwed over by ex-wives. If marriage were contractual then infidelity would be a breach of contract & fault would be re-infused into the equation. Sure, it would remove the states power over licensure of marriage – but I just don’t think the state should have that sort of power over our lives anyway.
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Still doesn’t change the fact that you don’t have a romantic bone in your body (from what I’ve gathered of you so far). Although I’m sorry for your soldier buddies. It must be hard doing what you do.
 
Well, I don’t know. Why would she? No, that gets into creating life. It’s all about interference in the process of life. Whether it is creation or termination.
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Well, a moment ago it was a big problem to abort the last pregnancy on earth. Why is there no problem with letting everyone die if the woman isn’t already pregnant?
Your a guy. Sheeesh, I was under the impression that you were a girl. Eleve in french, by the way, means student, is that why you chose this as your username?
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Indeed it is. I came here as a student of the Catholic faith. Though I am combative in this thread, I promise that I am still learning.

By the way, I blame you for my renewed compulsion to go see Children of Men.

Hope: Re godless society — it is very easy, and also trivial, tautological, and meaningless, for you to correlate crime and immorality with godlessness when you consider all criminals and other moral people to be by definition godless.
 
josie_L said:
Still doesn’t change the fact that you don’t have a romantic bone in your body (from what I’ve gathered of you so far). Although I’m sorry for your soldier buddies. It must be hard being a soldier.
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none of my ex-girlfriends would agree with your contention. They would just say I’m non-committal (which might be true :)).
 
Eleve said:
Well, a moment ago it was a big problem to abort the last pregnancy on earth. Why is there no problem with letting everyone die if the woman isn’t already pregnant?
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especially when the continued survival of the human race would necessarily depend on incest :D:D:D:D
 
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