Atheism - Paradox

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How can I have contempt for a fictional character from a book that was badly written 2000 years ago? My point is, that if god wanted mindless zombie sheep he would have made more sheep and not man.
I do not know of this character from a book written 2000 years ago. Please tell me more. 😛

I believe because I have seen. You chose to dismiss my evidence as delusional.

Whatever I say, you will disbelieve because your mind is made up and nothing will ever convince you.

You came here expecting to find folk who believed without any proof. You were challenged by folk who had seen proof but you chose to dismiss their evidence. So that proves you came here not looking for proof but some other hidden agenda.

I am sorry to disappoint you.

Blessings and peace
 
I see you’re insinuating atheists are like cultists and we don’t question our beliefs. That’s funny because as I said earlier, I was raised christian. I retract my earlier statement where I said you were not mentally ill. You clearly are. Enjoy the rest of your circle jerk.
You may have been ‘raised Christian’ but Christian you never were, by your OWN admission.

Jesus bless you.
 
I do not know of this character from a book written 2000 years ago. Please tell me more. 😛

I believe because I have seen. You chose to dismiss my evidence as delusional.

Whatever I say, you will disbelieve because your mind is made up and nothing will ever convince you.

You came here expecting to find folk who believed without any proof. You were challenged by folk who had seen proof but you chose to dismiss their evidence. So that proves you came here not looking for proof but some other hidden agenda.

I am sorry to disappoint you.

Blessings and peace
We did find people who have believed with no proof. You feeling god =/= proof. Do you expect us to convert to Catholicism because you said you saw god? Your “evidence” is not evidence at all. The only place people are allowed to say “It’s real because I saw it” is with religion. If you pulled this anywhere else you would be in a mental hospital.
 
You may have been ‘raised Christian’ but Christian you never were, by your OWN admission.

Jesus bless you.
When did I say I wasn’t Christian when I was raised? You keep pulling this “by your own admission” yet it’s always something I haven’t admitted to.
 
This post is why people think theists are deluded. Instead of presenting an argument you say that you have experienced it and I cannot disprove it. Well, you’re right, as said earlier, it’s impossible to disprove a negative.

Have a nice day
The only reason that I stated what I did was because you mentioned your own experiences about not having your prayers answers. Hence, if you are allowed to use this as evidence that God doesn’t exist (directly or indirectly, consciously or unconsciously), then it’s only fair that I mention my own experiences with God and how He has always answered my prayers. It’s rather simple. Furthermore, if it’s impossible to prove a negative, why then are you as an atheist (a naturalist who states only matter exists) claiming God doesn’t exist? This in and of itself is a contradiction. Also, according to logicians you can prove a negative:

“Among professional logicians, guess how many think that you can’t prove a negative? That’s right, zero. Yes, Virginia, you can prove a negative, and it’s easy, too. For one thing, a real, actual law of logic is a negative, namely the law of non-contradiction. This law states that that a proposition cannot be both true and not true. Nothing is both true and false. Furthermore, you can prove this law. It can be formally derived from the empty set using provably valid rules of inference. (I’ll spare you the boring details). One of the laws of logic is a provable negative. Wait … this means we’ve just proven that it is not the case that one of the laws of logic is that you can’t prove a negative. So we’ve proven yet another negative! In fact, “you can’t prove a negative” is a negative — so if you could prove it true, it wouldn’t be true! Uh-oh.”

skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-12-05

Have a nice day!
 
Okay, well thanks for proving his point.

If the argument for God was like a court case, the only type it could be compared to is the Salem witch trials. In both cases you have to prove a negative, something that is quite literally impossible and goes against all logic.

Saying that we have to provide the proof that God does not exist is ridiculous because like you, I can say the following:

“In other words if the invisible elephant in my shoe that nobody can sense is being put on trial then let the prosecutor (the disbelievers) find the means/arguments to prosecute him. As a defender I will refute with faith and reason as to why the elephant does exist.”

You would then claim the burden of proof is us to show that the elephant is false, and if we don’t you can claim he is in fact real. See how crazy that is?
If you can’t prove God’s existence or give a rational argument for your viewpoint, then don’t bother posting on CAF. I leave you with these words:

“Being an atheist is a philosophical stance. It is not enough simply to declare yourself one: That is mere dogmatism—like announcing, without further argument, that you don’t believe in free will or objective values. If you wish to be an intellectually interesting atheist, you are obliged to give some evidence for your position.”

slate.com/id/2075653/
 
When it comes to knowledge the default position is always disbelief. You should not believe something until it is proven incorrect, that would be utterly ridiculous.
As utterly ridiculous as you claiming you can’t prove a negative (i.e. God’s existence) but then asserting only matter exists.
 
As utterly ridiculous as you claiming you can’t prove a negative (i.e. God’s existence) but then asserting only matter exists.
ARRRGHHHHHH FACE PALM!!!

http://tazeat.com/misc/facepalm.jpg

I don’t have to PROVE anything, the burden of proof is on you. I DON’T claim that i can prove there is no god, I reject YOUR claim that god exists. MAN OH MAN this is like kindergarten stuff!!!
 
What? God would have known we would fall if he created Lucifer. Yet he decided to do it anyways and punish us and sacrifice his own son. It would have nothing to do with him loving us, it would have to do with him indirectly casting us down and putting the burden on his son. Please read what you are saying and then reread my post.

Excuse, what do you mean by “punish” (aren’t we injecting our own personal cynicism here)? Furthermore, even if God would have known of the fall He would have also in his infinite wisdom known a way to salvage his plans for humanity for the benefit of all. He loved us into existence even knowing the mistakes we would make because He knew we could be reconciled to Him.

You just agreed with me that god would see the future, now you claim we have free will. Sorry, that’s impossible. If god can see the future then everything has a set path and all our choices are predetermined. He would know what will happen in the future so there is only one possible way the future could pan out from our point of view.
No, it’s not impossible as I never said that He manipulated the Future only that He could see into it (or rather the past, present and future as He is eternal and outside the confines of space and time).
 
On the BBC viewers ‘Have your say’, almost any topic which relates to religion, even in the most discreet way draws a vast number of ‘spaghetti monster’ comments.

This very suggestion while intended to be offensive, as you say, actually ridicules the lack of knowledge of the writer.

Tragically athiests are never going to find their proof since they demand that 'if there is a God [usually written contemptuously as ‘god’], He reveals Himself, but Almighty God consistently refuses the arrogant temptation of man to put Him under the microscope. God will not allow Himself to be studied and observed in this way.

They simply do not know that to ‘observe’ God, all they have to do is go through the Person of Jesus Christ and then not only can they observe Him but do so at incredible depth. 🙂

Blessings and peace.
I tried for most of my life to meet the Christian God, I was without success. 😦

I came to the conclusion that God is not real or God left us a long, long time ago.

I don’t think that meeting this invisible God of yours, is quite as simple as you would like us all to believe.
 
God is all knowing. god knows the future. Because god knows the future there is only one possible way for things to progress. If things progressed in a different way then god foresaw it, then he is not omniscient. So things must progress in the way that god sees them. If things progress always in the way god sees them, then there is no free will because everything has a set path.

In other words, god could not be omniscient while we have free will. I’ve explained this twice now and I have yet to hear a legitimate argument against it, just denial.
God is omniscient. He knew that if He chose to create angels and men/women and give them all free will, then not every one of them would choose His Good. Sure, He could have scrapped the whole plan before He put it into motion, but He chose to have half a loaf (a few people choosing Him freely) rather than a full loaf (forcing everyone to choose His Good). But, the downside to everyone’ individual free will choice is: a person chooses for eternity either heaven or hell by his/her own free will actions. There is no middle ground.

Hebrews 5:9
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
As far as Adam and Eve, it’s literally impossible for the whole human race to have come from two people.
Anyways, mankind’s closest common ancestors are 100,000 years apart:
A human is not human until it has an immortal soul. Evolution can be part of God’s plan, but only Adam received the first immortal soul, so he is the first human. (Genesis 1:26, Romans 5)
You’re missing a key component to your story. So, as you agreed, he knew that mankind would fall. So he punishes mankind for something he knew would happen if he created them (remember you said this yourself). Since he is all knowing and knew this would happen, he created man knowing they would be punished to eternal torture. He then sends his son to die for something he knew would happen.
**
That is why it is called free will.** We are free to choose Him or not and accept the consequences. Did you or anyone you know give your/their children the option of being conceived? He gave us this great gift of life and free will, but there are always consequences as to how we use the gifts we receive.

His Son was happy to die for our sins because of His great love for us. He was not badgered into it. He knew that if mankind was created, then He would die for them in order to reconcile them to God again after Adam’s sin. Awesome!
He could have avoided all this if he hadn’t created Lucifer (and as you agreed he can see the future) or by not punishing us for something he knew would happen.
Lucifer was just one of the angels in the myriad legions of angels that God created and gave the gift of free will. He had the same opportunity to choose God as all the other angels did. So, why should God refuse to create angelic beings just because some would not choose Him? Should I not give an “A” to one child who deserved it simply because no other child also deserved an “A”?

God is all-good. He is a consuming fire. He cannot abide evil because He is perfect Good. His consuming fire destroys evil, (this is its nature) so evil angels, men, and women are destroyed by this consuming fire because of their own chosen wickedness. God’s consuming fire refines the “just” souls in purgatory if necessary, so that they will be without blemish, perfect, holy, and acceptable to Him. Nothing imperfect can enter heaven.

The consuming fire for the just souls:
1 Corinthians 3:15
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The consuming fire for the reprobate souls:
John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

The “created” have no power of their own making, so they are foolish if they tell God the “Creator” what He should do about His “creation” and then expect Him to do it. They are also foolish to question His motives; He reveals what He desires us to know about Him and we will know Him intimately in heaven as His adopted children. (Ephesians 1:5) 😃

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

God wanted a large family of people and angels who would share completely in His Love for eternity. Sounds like a good plan to me. 😉
 
Isn’t this exactly what you are? Have you ever in your life questioned god’s word or demanded proof?
I’ve had so many proofs of God’s providence in my lifetime and I am continuing to receive them, so many in fact, that I’ve forgotten many of them. But, then, I have a personal relationship with God and these are personal proofs which you would not believe even if I told you what they were. I can hardly wait to be with Him forever. (Unfortunately, however, it will probably be after I spend time in purgatory!) I am atoning for as many sins as I can while I am on earth. 🙂

Here is my “problem” with God:

I know that God wants His “best” for me because God is love, but I am sometimes fearful of how painful and/or unpleasant His “best” for me will be since I ask Him for His will to be done to me and not my own. Just when I think I have one fault “fixed,” He shows me 2 more that I need to “fix.”😊
 
I’ve had so many proofs of God’s providence in my lifetime and I am continuing to receive them, so many in fact, that I’ve forgotten many of them. But, then, I have a personal relationship with God and these are personal proofs which you would not believe even if I told you what they were. I can hardly wait to be with Him forever. (Unfortunately, however, it will probably be after I spend time in purgatory!) I am atoning for as many sins as I can while I am on earth. 🙂

Here is my “problem” with God:

I know that God wants His “best” for me because God is love, but I am sometimes fearful of how painful and/or unpleasant His “best” for me will be since I ask Him for His will to be done to me and not my own. Just when I think I have one fault “fixed,” He shows me 2 more that I need to “fix.”😊
This is how I know God exists (personal proofs) which I’m told is not worth jack to Atheists (although they have no problems telling us how God didn’t intervene or answer their prayers as some sort of evidence that He doesn’t exist).
 
I see you’re insinuating atheists are like cultists and we don’t question our beliefs. That’s funny because as I said earlier, I was raised christian. I retract my earlier statement where I said you were not mentally ill. You clearly are. Enjoy the rest of your circle jerk.
Unless you want to survive on these forums refrain from insulting. :mad:
 
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