atheism

[rinnie]

It is impossible for me to understand fully your dilema as I do not have your faith, but from what you say it is a difficult choice. Laws are complicated but using faith to make laws that discriminate against people because of their sexuality (which I think is wrong in itself) can get very messy.
Where is the line drawn? Does then every religion have this right? Lets say in 20 years from now Muslims make up 95% of America, would you also accept that they should impose Sharia law because it is based on their faith? I would imagine no, because you do not want to abide by the laws of another faith.

Regarding post 380, they were definately short and to the point. Alot had been passed back and forth up to that point, and I think this shows a bit of frustration. I cannot really disagree with all the points made. Would I have made them differently? Maybe.

So what you are saying is because you do not have my faith, and believe in God you discriminate against me then because I do believe the words of GOd. Is that what you are saying?

 

[josie_L]

Well in his mind i am BORN with sin. He doesn’t even wait till i am capable of making my own decisions before he labels me a sinner. That is discrimination of the HIGHEST order.

You were born into sin but God made sure that this sin would be removed through the cross of Jesus. So what are you whining about? You don’t think God suffered enough, do you think another round on the cross will make you feel better and soothe your hurt feelings? Perhaps many mutiple whippings with a cat o tails that rips through flesh, beatings and a crown of (long) thorns placed on one’s head, carrying a cross all the way up a hill (after you’ve been whipped and beaten), being spat on and ridiculed all the while, treated like a common criminal and humiliated for those whose sins you were forgiving (being crucified was reserved for the lowest of the low), being nailed to the cross (hands and feet), suffering for 6 hours in an excruciating (by the way the word excruciating comes from crucifixion) manner, dying of heart failure as water entered the lungs suffocating him, and speared on his right side to ensure death, is a piece of cake, right? God bless your ignorance Charlie.

 

[JulieAA]

Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit…believing that any sin is “unforgiveable” or does not ask for forgiveness.

Why is there so much hatred on this site? Is it that you want to feel “superior” intellectually? Are you angry with God for something you think He should have or have not done in your life?

Explaining faith to a non-believer who desires to reject the Holy Spirit is like explaining a cloud to a blind person.

 

[Ronsatron]

So what you are saying is because you do not have my faith, and believe in God you discriminate against me then because I do believe the words of GOd. Is that what you are saying?

I dont see where I said that. If I did pont it out and I will retract it. What I was trying to get across is that if you have religious beliefs then by all means you have the right to follow those beliefs. However, if you then try and force others to live by your beliefs then I think this is wrong.
Would you welcome sharia law to where you live?

 

[josie_L]

Absolutely not. But I guess its what you think guidance is.

Well i would suggest that there are better ways god could of handled the whole sin issue. god knew that judas was going to betray him. Sp he knew is was all going to happen. IMO with god knowing that it would pan out the way it did, he could have decided to handle situation with a little more skill.

But who had their self tortured on the Cross. It sure wasn’t Christ. He didn’t do it, you really do need to read the bible. It was the people who were full of sins that killed him.

HE DID **NOT **DIE!!!

ANd who is hiding. Jesus Christ is alive and well. He is exposed in the Catholic Church every sunday in the Holy Eucharist. The only thing that is hidden is for those who refuse to see.

Well he doing a good job of making EVERYTHING look exactly they way it would if he did not exist.

That’s because you have not experienced God in your life so how can you see it in others? Furthermore, if the whole world were to act like Christ you would not have the evils that we see today.

 

[josie_L]

Mark 3:29 "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

So for me to deny the holy spirt is an eternal sin that never be forgiven.

Charles were you baptized?

 

[josie_L]

I think the kid should be guided, but that has nothing to do with this. For god did not punish us he punished himself.

So you still have not answered the question. Why did god not just forgive our sins? Why did he need the pain and punishment and death of himself? It is utterly pointless and makes zero sense.

God needed to reconcile us to him, and the only way to do that was through Jesus (as no mere human could accomplish what he did). You see our first parents, Adam and Eve broke a covenant, an oath (that tarnished our nature and relationship with God) so God in his infinite mercy sent us Jesus to breech this gap (and created a new covenant) and heal our wounded nature. Jesus died so we could be holy again, giving us the Spirit through baptism and the other sacraments that confer grace. God could not just forgive us our sins without first equipping us with the tools necessary to regain holiness, it was through Jesus’s own humanity (the new Adam) that we are created anew (reborn). We are far luckier than even Adam and Eve (who were created in original holiness) as we have received God’s own spirit into our bodies. This is how great God is.

p.s. Jesus was sent to show us how much God (the Holy Trinity) loved us.

 

[rinnie]

Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit…believing that any sin is “unforgiveable” or does not ask for forgiveness.

Why is there so much hatred on this site? Is it that you want to feel “superior” intellectually? Are you angry with God for something you think He should have or have not done in your life?

Explaining faith to a non-believer who desires to reject the Holy Spirit is like explaining a cloud to a blind person.

I am seeing that more and more as the years go by. You are correct if someone rejects the HS why would we think they could even begin to accept the gospel. I try the best I can, but now its time to walk away.

The bible says you either are agaiinst me or you are for me. No lukewarm. I have not one doubt in my Mind ever about God. I know he is all that is good and merciful to us all.

I pray that people that reject him can come to him before its too late. But they have every opportunity to go to Christ. But like they will tell you its their choice to reject him and we cannot push our faith on them. But we do try to let them know. but that is all we can do.

Gods peace be with you Julie. Goodnight.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Charles wake up smell the coffee. He does not torture us. You go, you confess your sin, you quit the sin you are forgiven. Its as simple as that. I have told you time after time but you somehow refuse to listen.

No physical pain, Its over. He took it away. He made it real easy now. Its not torture to admit you are sorry and have done wrong. Its actually a relief to ask for forgiveness and be forgiven. It takes away the burden that is carried with sin. Trust me confession don’t torture you.

NO, why did he have to send jesus knowing he would be tortured, why could he not just forgive?

 

[yankee_doodle]

getting ganged up on by the god squad huh?

 

[1catholic]

NO, why did he have to send jesus knowing he would be tortured, why could he not just forgive?

God is just and God is love. God loves us but in his justice we must pay the price of sin, death. But God knew that we as fallen humans would never be perfect so he came down as man and as man paid man’s price for sin. Now all we have to do is turn to him and accept his gift of new life through our penance :heaven:

 

[yankee_doodle]

Ever since I have really embraced my faith and embraced Jesus and pray everyday, I find atheism to be actually insulting…I feel atheist are insulting Jesus, and I can’t help it but take it personal…It’s like when I watch the crucifixion scene in a movie, I get so angry at the people laughing at my Jesus! does anyone else feel this way?..I wish I didn’t feel this way, I don’t want to hurt their feelings, and I’m friends with some atheists…as long as we don’t talk about religion, we get along…I think at one time in my life, I was possibly agnostic, but at my lowest point, I was never atheist…I just don’t understand it…How could a person not love Jesus…?

We don’t believe Jesus existed … and if he did exist we don’t believe a god-man ever cheated death (but if it’s any conciliation we also don’t believe a little Jewish guy with the help of his invisible friend split the red sea … or any of the other mythological stories in the bible or the vast collection of other bibles people believe in because they fear death).

 

[1catholic]

We don’t believe Jesus existed … and if he did exist we don’t believe a god-man ever cheated death (but if it’s any conciliation we also don’t believe a little Jewish guy with the help of his invisible friend split the red sea … or any of the other mythological stories in the bible or the vast collection of other bibles people believe in because they fear death).

Is everything here just by chance? All the miracles just elaborate hoaxes by the old senile men in Rome? All the martyrs fools for a non-existent cause. All the hate targeted toward a child-like-fantasy? 2000 yrs of ppl brainwashed? Do you really believe in nothing?

 

[authenticity]

Thoughtful post. People are free to believe what they like, whether others think it is rational or not. I do take issue though when these beliefs result in the discrimination of others. The same applies if religious people are being discriminated against.

So if a particular behavior is destructive towards a person or society in general, is it discrimination to prohibit that behavior? How can something be considered a right that destroys a person?

Let’s say there are people out there who have a tendency to literally shoot themselves in the foot. It’s not something the person is doing consciously, they just can’t help themselves. Laws are created to stop this behavior and provide rehabilitation for the foot shooting people.

The foot shooting people, on the other hand, form a community called IHOP to defend foot-shooters everywhere. They feel that it is perfectly natural for people to shoot themselves in the foot. The government is just being a bigot, the laws are discrimination. They demand rights. Sympathetic family members and friends support their foot-shooters.

A preacher sees all these angry people walking around with one foot or in wheelchairs and thinks that he must help these people, even if they hate him for doing so. He starts preaching that because he loves the foot-shooters, he wants them to get help. He starts up a “Quit Shooting Yourself For Jesus” clinic.

His message is quickly drowned out in protests. The media supplies ample coverage of IHOP members screaming epithets about how all religion is fascism because they hate foot-shooters. Atheists write sharp-witted essays about how irrational the religious are being by enforcing their anti-foot-shooter beliefs down everybody’s throat. Foot shooting has become trendy. High school kids are posting video’s of shooting themselves in the foot, even though they don’t have this problem. They just think it will irk some religious people.

Behind this circus, in some city that could be any city, is a person that cries himself to sleep at night because he just wants to quit shooting himself in the foot. But there is no one to help him because they are all too busy supporting his right to hurt himself.

 

[authenticity]

We don’t believe Jesus existed … and if he did exist we don’t believe a god-man ever cheated death (but if it’s any conciliation we also don’t believe a little Jewish guy with the help of his invisible friend split the red sea … or any of the other mythological stories in the bible or the vast collection of other bibles people believe in because they fear death).

Peter was nailed to an inverted cross in Rome. Does that sound like someone who is afraid of death?

 

[authenticity]

NO, why did he have to send jesus knowing he would be tortured, why could he not just forgive?

Because our relationship to God is based on sacrifice. Perhaps you think that is primitive, but if you have a job and a family, you sacrifice your time (which you have in short supply) to an employer so that you can feed people that aren’t you. If you can reflect on why you do what you do, you can understand why Jesus did what he did. It’s the same principle.

As an aside, why is reality like that? Why isn’t life all hearts, rainbows and lucky charms? Maybe it’s because life wouldn’t serve any purpose if it were like that. And real love couldn’t make an appearance.

 

[shoewindow3000]

I understand how atheists feel, because I SWEAR **,as God Almighty as my witness, **I WAS ONE.
I was a skeptic’s skeptic. I knew all the authors, read all the books. I even used to mock Christians, saying how they believed in myth and fairies.

I am living proof that the Mercy of God is truly great, that He is always patiently waiting for a soul to respond to Him.

When Christ suffered His Passion and Crucifixion, You were His personal motivation. His suffering is not comprehensible to my mind or to yours, just to let you atheists know!
Nothing I say or do can give you faith. Only God can perform that miracle!

It is my hope and prayer that you will respond the the grace of God, Who is Jesus Christ.

AMEN!

 

[Ronsatron]

So if a particular behavior is destructive towards a person or society in general, is it discrimination to prohibit that behavior? How can something be considered a right that destroys a person?

Let’s say there are people out there who have a tendency to literally shoot themselves in the foot. It’s not something the person is doing consciously, they just can’t help themselves. Laws are created to stop this behavior and provide rehabilitation for the foot shooting people.

The foot shooting people, on the other hand, form a community called IHOP to defend foot-shooters everywhere. They feel that it is perfectly natural for people to shoot themselves in the foot. The government is just being a bigot, the laws are discrimination. They demand rights. Sympathetic family members and friends support their foot-shooters.

A preacher sees all these angry people walking around with one foot or in wheelchairs and thinks that he must help these people, even if they hate him for doing so. He starts preaching that because he loves the foot-shooters, he wants them to get help. He starts up a “Quit Shooting Yourself For Jesus” clinic.

His message is quickly drowned out in protests. The media supplies ample coverage of IHOP members screaming epithets about how all religion is fascism because they hate foot-shooters. Atheists write sharp-witted essays about how irrational the religious are being by enforcing their anti-foot-shooter beliefs down everybody’s throat. Foot shooting has become trendy. High school kids are posting video’s of shooting themselves in the foot, even though they don’t have this problem. They just think it will irk some religious people.

Behind this circus, in some city that could be any city, is a person that cries himself to sleep at night because he just wants to quit shooting himself in the foot. But there is no one to help him because they are all too busy supporting his right to hurt himself.

This is not comparing like with like. Being homosexual does not hurt people. You may say it hurts god or you as you want to ‘save them’. But guess what? There are actually people who dont believe what your church says. If you get offended then that is your issue, there is no reason to discriminate against them because of your belief, not theirs.
If there are people out there who are gay and also christian, then it is up to them how they behave.
It may surprise you but there are gay people out there (alot more than you probably think) who live very happy lives. Your religious discrimination should not be forced on them. Why not make adultery illegal? Why not make all contraception illegal?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

God is just and God is love. God loves us but in his justice we must pay the price of sin, death. But God knew that we as fallen humans would never be perfect so he came down as man and as man paid man’s price for sin. Now all we have to do is turn to him and accept his gift of new life through our penance :heaven:

Again this does NOT answer WHY god could not just forgive us, why did he need torture, pain and death (well not real death for jesus is alive according to christians)? If someone does me a bad turn then i don’t want to torture them, i am capable of forgiveness without torture.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Because our relationship to God is based on sacrifice. Perhaps you think that is primitive, but if you have a job and a family, you sacrifice your time (which you have in short supply) to an employer so that you can feed people that aren’t you. If you can reflect on why you do what you do, you can understand why Jesus did what he did. It’s the same principle.

As an aside, why is reality like that? Why isn’t life all hearts, rainbows and lucky charms? Maybe it’s because life wouldn’t serve any purpose if it were like that. And real love couldn’t make an appearance.

Still does not answer my question. We are no talking about sacrifice, we are talking about torture. God had the option to forgive, so why did he not just take it? We did he need torture?