atheism

[Charles_Darwin]

You’ve still missed the point. You’ve refused to even look at the point. Your objections to opposition to gay marriage, by insisting that Jesus never said anything about it are absurd. Instead of simply admitting I am right on this (and I am) you brush it aside because you are too dogmatic to actually engage in a discussion, insisting dogmatically that you “don’t have to.”:manvspc:

LOL no you have missed the point. I couldn’t CARE LESS what jesus or your book says about it. My point is this. You have NO rational reason to claim homosexuals are immoral. You reason is “my bronze aged book of myths says so”. Well that is not rational, its absurd.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Yes Charles, I do. And what is reality Charles, for the better part of human history contraceptives and sleeping around before one was married was considered wrong, sinful, immoral, then along comes the proponents of moral relativism and with a cavalier attitude states “hey people, there’s no such thing as truth, truth/reality is what you make of it”, well, if reality is built solely on our own understanding of it then this present reality is nothing but a sham because it’s built on falsehoods. Reality should be based on truth, and truth comes from God.

The reality is that condoms save millions of life’s every year and avoid unwanted pregnancy.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Isn’t that amazing josie. How many times have we said we do not hate gays. I know I have stated it many of times. But Charles does not want to hear what we think, he wants to tell us what we think.

IT is sad too, because I know many gays that do believe in God. MANY. Just because a person has sin does not mean that they have to deny God. Just because a homosexual act is a sin does not mean that person is hated

I really do not know why he is here. It is not to hear or learn about our faith, because he does not listen he argues with what we say. We try to tell him the teachings and he argues with every little thing we say.

Wonder why is he really here. We know we are here to explain our faith. I would think that he could spend his time in other places. We understand he does not believe in God. He has made his point. SO what is his reason? I do not understand. As I have stated it is not to learn our faith.

No i’m not gay, not that it matter’s.

I couldn’t care less about “sin” and what your god says. You might as well tell me Santa wont bring me my toys at christmas.

What i would like is a rational reason why you thing homosexuals are immoral. You have yet to provide me with one.

Oh and i am here to help anyone i can escape from the obtuseness of young earth creationism.

 

[rinnie]

The reality is that condoms save millions of life’s every year and avoid unwanted pregnancy.

No that is your reality. My reality is that a condom is a barrier for millions of lifes every year. That is why so many couples now are dying to have kids and cannot have them. Because condems are so great. Between them and birth control many women cannot have children now. They either waited too late, or Birth control has make them unable to conceive.

If you did it God’s way and had one partner you would not have to worry about all of the disease spreading around from partner to partner.

Safe Sex. Thats called getting married and not sleeping around.

 

[josie_L]

LOL no you have missed the point. I couldn’t CARE LESS what jesus or your book says about it. My point is this. You have NO rational reason to claim homosexuals are immoral. You reason is “my bronze aged book of myths says so”. Well that is not rational, its absurd.

But I have given a rational reason.

 

[Convert66]

Against my better judgement,

No, you were talking about the origin of the universe.

Wrong. I jumped into this thread when you said:

Yes i would like to see where jesus said it is wrong to be gay???

Also there is evidence to suggest jesus many even have been gay. Lets just say for arguments sake he was, would that in anyway change his teachings, make him any less of a person.

Its sad when one can’t see past their bigoted ways.

But now you say:

I couldn’t CARE LESS what jesus or your book says about it.

So which is it? You’ve called me a bigot, said I was comparing homosexuality to pedophilia (while ignoring the "comparison"to UFC fighters and gladiators) implied I was somehow out of the dark ages, said my mindset was the problem with society (as if I am impeding scientific inquiry), accused me of injecting a “god of the gaps” explanation (none of which is accurate), and ignored the fact that homosexuals have EVERY right that heterosexuals have, and where they do not I support their cause. Marriage is a religious institution exclusively a Sacrament in the Catholic Church, and outside of that ALL marriage is nothing more than a civil union.

Further, you state that morals are based upon society, while ignoring the root of your own society, and dismissing anyone else who bases their morality on just as subjective a source as your own.

And I’m the dogmatist?

Let’s talk again when you get out of grade school, Chuck. I’m done.

You can have the last word.

All my best . . .

 

[rinnie]

No i’m not gay, not that it matter’s.

I couldn’t care less about “sin” and what your god says. You might as well tell me Santa wont bring me my toys at christmas.

What i would like is a rational reason why you thing homosexuals are immoral. You have yet to provide me with one.

Oh and i am here to help anyone i can escape from the obtuseness of young earth creationism.

Why?

 

[rinnie]

LOL no you have missed the point. I couldn’t CARE LESS what jesus or your book says about it. My point is this. You have NO rational reason to claim homosexuals are immoral. You reason is “my bronze aged book of myths says so”. Well that is not rational, its absurd.

Who gave your the right to judge anothers reasoning? Who named you god. No one because you do not even believe in God.

And we do believe in God and his name is the Father the SOn and the Holy SPirit and he was named GOD. Rather it is rational to you or not. It is to many many people.

SO beings that you are NOT God and we know who is we live by his rules. Who are you to tell us differently. This is a Catholic website about God. Again why do you feel a need to come on a Catholic website anyway. There are many websites about atheism that you could entertain yourself on.

Why do you feel a need to come onto our website and condemn our thinking, our God. You don’t find Catholics going onto a atheist website. We do not care about what atheists believe. If we did we would spend our time there, not here.

 

[josie_L]

The reality is that condoms save millions of life’s every year and avoid unwanted pregnancy.

No condoms do not save millions of lives or prevent unwanted pregnancy (condoms are only ninety percent effective), abstaining does. You want to see the figures of those African nations who are using the ABC’s (like in Uganda where percentages have gone down dramatically) as compared to those who are using condoms (wherein the rate of HIV infected is still high). I will find you the info. God bless.

 

[gearhead]

No condoms do not save millions of lives or prevent unwanted pregnancy (condoms are only ninety percent effective), abstaining does. You want to see the figures of those African nations who are using the ABC’s (like in Uganda where percentages have gone down dramatically) as compared to those who are using condoms (wherein the rate of HIV infected is still high). I will find you the info. God bless.

The “C” in “ABC” is “use a condom”. And yes, condoms are much more effective as part of an integrated plan than they are when they’re just handed out with no larger strategy.

BTW, would you like to see Uganda’s most recent HIV infection statistics? Ever since the Bush administration decided to hold back funding from NGOs that didn’t emphasize abstinence-only, the infection rate has started to rise again.

 

[josie_L]

The “C” in “ABC” is “use a condom”. And yes, condoms are much more effective as part of an integrated plan than they are when they’re just handed out with no larger strategy.

BTW, would you like to see Uganda’s most recent HIV infection statistics? Ever since the Bush administration decided to hold back funding from NGOs that didn’t emphasize abstinence-only, the infection rate has started to rise again.

Actually the C refers to character more than it does condoms (condoms are a last resort but the emphasis is put on purity). The thing is those countries that have only practiced contraceptives as a means to prevent disease have never had their rates so low as it was in Uganda. As for the HIV rate increasing in Uganda, well, that doesn’t change the fact that the percentage of HIV infected went down from 30 something percent to 5%, and it still has the lowest rate of any other HIV infected African country to date if I’m not mistaken.

 

[rinnie]

The “C” in “ABC” is “use a condom”. And yes, condoms are much more effective as part of an integrated plan than they are when they’re just handed out with no larger strategy.

BTW, would you like to see Uganda’s most recent HIV infection statistics? Ever since the Bush administration decided to hold back funding from NGOs that didn’t emphasize abstinence-only, the infection rate has started to rise again.

If they would have listened to Gods plan they would not need the Bush administration and would have used ABSTINENCE ONLY and we would not have a problem now would we.

Just another TRUTH to the teaching of God. Or are you going to say even abstinence would not help the spread of aids now

Just another way for even the BLIND to see that when you sin and go against the teachings of Christ you sin. And sin causes death, death of the soul, and death of the body. So just another reason GOD WAS RIGHT. AGAIN.

SO there is another amoung many for the reason God left us the word. To protect us, not punish us. But sin and go against his word and you not only punish yourself by keeping yourself from God, you punish other inocent children who have to pay for your sin.

Then after you sin, instead of repenting and asking God for forgiveness you try to turn it around and blame God for your sin. I have heard it time after time, why did your God do this or that. It was never my God that did it, God never wills one to sin, they do it to themself. and many inocent in the world suffer because of it.

Sound familliar. Check out the OT Adam and Eve. They to disobeyed God and then when thier sin came back to bite them in the ? They too tried to blame God.

 

[gearhead]

Actually the C refers to character more than it does condoms (condoms are a last resort but the emphasis is put on purity).

Then you’re referring to a different “ABC” campaign than the one was actually used in Uganda.

http://www.avert.org/photo_library/images/normal_photo_no_213.jpg

PEPFAR follows an ABC strategy through “population-specific interventions” that emphasise:

A bstinence for youth, including the delay of sexual debut and abstinence until marriage
B eing tested for HIV and being faithful in marriage and monogamous relationships
C orrect and consistent use of condoms for those who practice high-risk behaviours.

For UNAIDS, ABC means:

A bstinence or delaying first sex
B eing safer by being faithful to one partner or by reducing the number of sexual partners
C orrect and consistent use of condoms for sexually active young people, couples in which one partner is HIV-positive, sex workers and their clients, and anyone engaging in sexual activity with partners who may have been at risk of HIV exposure.

What appears to have worked in Uganda was a combination of risk avoidance and risk reduction approaches. These resulted in a fall in the annual number of new infections between the late 1980s and mid 1990s, which in turn led to a reduction in HIV prevalence. In later years, an increase in the death rate probably made a contribution to further declines in prevalence, while the number of new infections remained more or less unchanged.

What has been particularly important in Uganda has been the combination of messages and approaches that have been used, including the widespread promotion and distribution of condoms. During the 1990s, schemes funded by USAID and other donors greatly increased condom use.

Source

The thing is those countries that have only practiced contraceptives as a means to prevent disease have never had their rates so low as it was in Uganda.

I agree. And the countries that only practiced abstinence as a means to prevent disease have never had their rates so low as it was in Uganda, where they emphasized both abstinence and condom use.

“The ABC approach in Uganda was and still is more than just abstinence and needs to be balanced without any emphasis on one aspect. Neither ‘A’ nor ‘B’ nor ‘C’ on its own can provide the answer to reducing risk of infection that is practical for every member of the population.” - Dr Stella Talisuna, March 2005

As for the HIV rate increasing in Uganda, well, that doesn’t change the fact that the percentage of HIV infected went down from 30 something percent to 5%, and it still has the lowest rate of any other HIV infected African country to date if I’m not mistaken.

Of course it doesn’t change that fact. But here’s what happened:

• they instituted a campaign that emphasized abstinence, fidelity and condom use: HIV rates dropped dramatically and stayed down.
• they began to remove condom use from their campaign and began to emphasize only abstinence and fidelity: HIV rates increased… not to the high levels they were previously, but still higher than when condom use was an element of the campaign.

 

[gearhead]

Sound familliar. Check out the OT Adam and Eve. They to disobeyed God and then when thier sin came back to bite them in the ? They too tried to blame God.

I don’t blame God for anything. Why would I blame something I don’t even think exists?

The harmful actions of the Church I put squarely on the shoulders of people.

 

[rinnie]

I don’t blame God for anything. Why would I blame something I don’t even think exists?

The harmful actions of the Church I put squarely on the shoulders of people.

And who appointed you Judge to blame anyone? The God that you reject says you worry about your own harmful actions. So unless you are blameless for any wrong doing of your own, you might not want to pick up any stones.

 

[gearhead]

And who appointed you Judge to blame anyone?

I’m no more the judge of those around me than you are. OTOH, I’m no less the judge of those around me than you are.

The God that you reject says you worry about your own harmful actions.

I do.

So unless you are blameless for any wrong doing of your own, you might not want to pick up any stones.

Who said I was? However, I think it’s preposterous to suggest that only perfect people should be allowed to correct injustices.

 

[rinnie]

I’m no more the judge of those around me than you are. OTOH, I’m no less the judge of those around me than you are.

I do.

Who said I was? However, I think it’s preposterous to suggest that only perfect people should be allowed to correct injustices.

Yeah, you got me there. I will give that one to you. But for the record I judge no one. All I am here for is to do my best to explain the word of God. And I find the more I try when dealing with athiests, the more I fail.

So I will wish you nothing but the best. I seem to only bicker back and forth when talking to anyone who rejects the word of God. I do not mean to. and I know God knows my heart is in the right place. But oh well. Have a great day. And I pray that I have somehow shared something in my faith that can bring out the good in someone. God Bless.

 

[josie_L]

Then you’re referring to a different “ABC” campaign than the one was actually used in Uganda.

You are absolutely wrong in stating that Uganda emphasized both abstinence and condoms equally, what hogwash? And furthermore, what a conflicting view/approach would that be to the people of Uganda if that were true?

Yes, abstain but use condoms.

The government, but especially the President and his wife stressed abstinence, so condoms were to be a last resort (and even then they tried to focus more on character).

p.s. It’s plain for anyone to see that pushing condoms has never reduced HIV rates in countries afflicted with this disease.

 

[gearhead]

You are absolutely wrong in stating that Uganda emphasized both abstinence and condoms equally, what hogwash?

I didn’t say that. I said that the campaign emphasized both. I never said “equally”.

And furthermore, what a conflicting view/approach would that be to the people of Uganda if that were true?

Yes, abstain but use condoms.

Or, if you prefer, what the campaign actually said: if you can do it, abstain. If you don’t abstain, be faithful to one partner. And if you’re sexually active, use a condom.

The government, but especially the President and his wife stressed abstinence, so condoms were to be a last resort (and even then they tried to focus more on character).

IOW, they recognized that condoms were an element in the strategy?

Regardless of the personal feelings of the Ugandan first family, the promotion of the “ABC” plan was done by other agencies… all of which recognized condoms as the “C” in “ABC”.

p.s. It’s plain for anyone to see that pushing condoms has never reduced HIV rates in countries afflicted with this disease.

When condoms are simply dumped on a country without a plan, I agree that they’re ineffective. However, they’ve shown their worth as an element of an integrated strategy to fight HIV.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Who gave your the right to judge anothers reasoning? Who named you god. No one because you do not even believe in God.

And we do believe in God and his name is the Father the SOn and the Holy SPirit and he was named GOD. Rather it is rational to you or not. It is to many many people.

SO beings that you are NOT God and we know who is we live by his rules. Who are you to tell us differently. This is a Catholic website about God. Again why do you feel a need to come on a Catholic website anyway. There are many websites about atheism that you could entertain yourself on.

Why do you feel a need to come onto our website and condemn our thinking, our God. You don’t find Catholics going onto a atheist website. We do not care about what atheists believe. If we did we would spend our time there, not here.

Well i there would not be much point in pointing out the obtuseness of YEC’s on an atheist site would there?

Oh and don’t tell anyone how to live their lives. It is you that sees fit to do that. What business is it of yours if two consenting adults, heterosexual or homosexual, have sex in the privacy of their own homes using condoms? I’ll tell you there answer. It is absolutely NONE of your business.