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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Having a reason to live, is not the same as having a god. And your point can be turned around: belief in God (but which ?) could be construed as a sex-substitute, or a money-substitute, or a fame-substitute, or an alcohol-substitute.
What is the proof of the truth of your last two sentences ? And what makes the ontological argument a good guide to whether people have gods or not ? Historically, not all gods are that than which nothing greater than can exist - or were the Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks & other polytheists not really theists after all ?
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Sigh.
Every time I hang out here for more than a few months, I find myself sympathizing with the atheists and other assorted nonbelievers/nonCatholics.
Why do so many believers feel the need to trash those who disagree with them? It’s fine to disagree and debate, but why the need for repeatedly insulting them?
Hormones maybe 
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StrawberryJam
Guest
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Can anyone else see a difference between insulting Christ (and/or God) and not believing in Christ (and/or God)?
Not believing in Tony Bliar is not the same thing as insulting him. Obama has loads of people to insult him - which rather implies a strong** belief** in him. Is the Flying Spaghetti Monster** insulted** by not being believed in ?
So insulting Christ/God =///= believing in Christ/God.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I’ve heard it said, you can not hate something you once loved.
I forgot who said it though.
I forgot who said it though.
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rinnie
Guest
First of all no one has forced you to be a believer for the fear of hell. Second of all no one can force you to believe at all. Jesus does not allow it. Jesus died on the cross for our sins and gave us free will. If we believe and repent and follow his commandments we can obtain eternal life with him. If we deny him we suffer eternal pain in hell its as simple as that.I still dont even know why you love your faith. But, I told you I am very acutely aware about what the catholic church teaches on hell. That is why I said, can we table it?
I wont be one who is a believer for fear of hell. Lets get that straight right now.
Sorry that you do not like those words, but those are the words of God. I would love to share with you sometime why I love my Faith. But that would de-rail the thread.
But if you have made up your mind to reject God. According to the bible if you choose to turn away from God and that is your choice. But you cannot say that you have never heard the word of God because you have. If you reject God you cannot have eternal life. Thats the teaching’s of the Church. sorry to be blunt but what other way is there. You are LOL and saying you have time you hope? I am sorry that you find this so funny. I see no humor in rejecting God and putting ones soul into eternal darkness. Sorry if we do not share the same humor.
God gave you a choice. He also made it possible for you to hear his word, you admitted that quite clear. You either accept it or you do not. There is no lukewarm with Christ. You are hot or cold.
I will proudly stand before God and stand before my words I have said to you. The bible said do not mess around with words. Jesus told his apostles to preach the word if people do not accept it and listen to shake the dust from you shoes and move on. I will not argue scripture with you, or condemn you for the choice you made. That is for God to do not me. All he has ever asked of me is to tell the truth the best I could and I have. Thats pretty much it. If I could give you any advice I would tell you to turn to God before its too late. There is no gurarantee with life you could be gone any second. ITs the truth. But the word of God has reached your ears and if you think that You can deny God and then in the end he is going to welcome you with open arms you better read the word of God. I am telling you the truth, it does not work that way.
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rinnie
Guest
Well lets start in the beginning with Jobs kids. They were on the wrong road. Some people in life no matter how much they love God give into temptation. God will let the devil temp us but never more than we can handle. God took Jobs kids because it was better for them to die young in this world then to live in mortal sin and be dead in the next world.
Job prayed for his children and God accepted Jobs prayers. That is why you know that Jobs kids have eternal life. Jobs kids also accepted God but were on the wrong road. So eternal life with God put them in eternal light and out of the darkness in this world. You must have alot of faith to see this. I do not expect you to understand this. But if you had enough faith in God it would be quite easy to see. I pray that for you.
Death for a Christian is never something pretty sinful it is something beautiful. When a person comes into this world their suffering begins because of human sin. When a person dies to this world and goes to the next the persons suffering ends because of the end of human sin. Then it is like it should have been before Adam and Eve sinned. No death, no hard labor, no sadness only constant happiness.
I have my Dad on the other side, I miss him so much, but every tear I cry will be dryed up forever when I leave this world and go to the next. My little brother is there also. He got a brain tumor at 39. Its been over 5 years now for him. 1.5 for Dad but I know that their suffering has ended. I get peace with that. I know they are together and waiting for us all to reunite at the table with Jesus like he promised. I begged God to end my brothers suffering and cure him. God did, he cured him and took him home, but his cure was not to be in this world but in the next. I accept that because I know God loves him even more than I do. God did what was best for my brother and I. God had to work with me awhile to show me this but I see it now.
We all have suffering in this world because of human sin. SOme suffering we bring on ourself some we bring onto inocent others. But God is with us to help us through it all and in the end it will not matter. Eternal life if what we can have if we want it. My Brother wanted it, he believed. My Dad wanted it he believed. And I want it I believe. That kinda sums it up!
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rinnie
Guest
By the way satan never killed off anybody. Satan has no power over life and death. Only death of a soul if you give into him. Jesus took the family because their time in this world was over. It was time for them to move on.
You say you do not believe in God. I told you God is good. Take the word good drop the o you got GOD.
Take the word evil add the d you got devil. Get the picture!
You say you do not believe in God. I told you God is good. Take the word good drop the o you got GOD.
Take the word evil add the d you got devil. Get the picture!
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Bear_Claw
Guest
Usually I’m all up for a debate, but I have some another issue that is taking my focus. I’ll get back to you later, or we’ll chat some more on another thread…just so you know why I’m off my game lol!
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theistgal
Guest
What if you speak Spanish?Take the word evil add the d you got devil. Get the picture!
“Dios” = “Dos”?
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rinnie
Guest
Then you learn to speak englishWhat if you speak Spanish?
“Dios” = “Dos”?
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phummel
Guest
Hello j1akey, I’d like to take stab at this. God rules His universe based on love and freedom. He wants us to come to Him - He won’t force us - you can’t force love. That’s why Satan still exists. God could have destroyed Satan and the rebellion but that wouldn’t compel people to love Him, just fear Him.
Satan has a strong hand in this world. We mustn’t attribute all the evils of the world to God just because He allows it to happen. When people die, they may still be able to enjoy the Kingdom of Heaven. That’s the real prize; this life is temporary.
Job is a true friend of God. He knows God isn’t doing this to him. He trusts God. God wants us all to be his friend and trust Him.
(Sorry I just noticed rinnie’s post - pretty much the same answer)
God bless you,
paul
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
You don’t know why she loves her faith? Is this a serious question or just plain ignorance?I still dont even know why you love your faith. But, I told you I am very acutely aware about what the catholic church teaches on hell. That is why I said, can we table it?
I wont be one who is a believer for fear of hell. Lets get that straight right now.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Many catholics have different reasons why they have deep faith.
Some converts were led by different reasons.
I don’t think it is ignorance to ask this, because so many catholics will have a different spiritual story.
Peace
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Charles_Darwin
Guest
They pretty much have, and “i don’t know” does not mean “god did it”. God of the gaps ain’t a god stance, and the gaps are being uncovered all the time, funny thing is we have yet to find god hiding in one of them.Science will NEVER and may I add cannot figure out how man got here. They will NEVER do this. Man is to complex. Must be God.
Furthermore, when the scientists are climbing the mountain looking for ways to figure this out, they’ll see the Theologians camping out under it…
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Charles_Darwin
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
No, they pretty much haven’t. Anyone can find “gaps” in anything. But that’s about it. There have been extreme atheists on this forum who are now devout Catholics.
Must of been the “gaps”.
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Charles_Darwin
Guest
Well actually they have, i suggest you look into the subject.
We know the origin of the elements, we have recreated RNA, we understand the evolution of life. They only thing we don’t know/understand yet is the origin of the observable universe.
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AnAtheist
Guest
But of that we know a great deal. More than ever before.
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