atheism

[Charles_Darwin]

You can put emphasis on the NT if you like, but for me the OT cannot be ignored. If you were to treat the rest of the OT with the same judgement as you do with all the genocide and nasty parts, then that would be fine. But by reading through other threads on this site and others, and speaking to some catholics, it is quite clear that they do use the OT for guidance. Look at some of the things written about homosexuals as an excellent example-and this is all justified becasue of what is written in the OT.
You may not view hell as a threat in the NT, but I do. “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth”. That passage as an example comes across as a threat to me, and people use it as such. I was told when I was young that I would go to hell for not believing, and that friends of mine would be certain to go to hell as they did not accept jesus (they were not christian). For me, that is not moral to teach children.

It means they have to ditch the ten commandments. Also didn’t jesus refer to moses constantly in the NT? And if god can just change his mind anytime he likes morals can’t be absoloute , say god comes back to earth again and changes his mind and says rape and child molesting are now good. In the opinion of christians would these things now be moral?

People pick and choose from the OT due to the evolution of morals.

 

[Ronsatron]

It means they have to ditch the ten commandments. Also didn’t jesus refer to moses constantly in the NT? And if god can just change his mind anytime he likes morals can’t be absoloute , say god comes back to earth again and changes his mind and says rape and child molesting are now good. In the opinion of christians would these things now be moral?

People pick and choose from the OT due to the evolution of morals.

This is what I find most of the time. Like Josie who tries to avoid or skip past the travesties in the OT because I feel that she knows that those things are be wrong. Either it is the word of god or it is not. If it is, then all that is written must be followed and believed by christians. The fact that most do not think that killing family members and genocide and slavery are acceptable shows that morals are not gained from the bible, but from an advancing society.
Saying we should just focus on the NT is not consistent. In that case where does original sin come into play? why then is the story of creation still told? the list goes on. the books go hand in hand, but again, the threat of eternal pain is enough for me to not teach the NT to my children.

 

[rinnie]

Hi Josie,

Well, there is quite alot I would not want to teach to my kids. I dont have my bible with me, but for example the views on homosexuality in Leviticus 20:? is not a very moral teaching, nor is some of the teachings in deuteronomy regarding putting family members to death for serving other gods. Then stories like that of abraham and his son are also not very moral in my opinion.

Whether or not you or christianity subscribe to this teaching is irrelevant to me, I personally find it morally corrupt teaching, and therefore would not want to be skimming over these sections just to read the ‘good’ parts.

Hi Ron, and you are in. I started my prayers for you yesterday after you answered me. I didn’t have time to respond back. It was 95 here which is wonderful for us. So I spend my time praying silently in the pool. (Catholics are like that)

About when you got kids oh my, Think of me. Because trust me when you do you will not walk to church you are gonna run. You will want that soul to go to Jesus. Trust me you will see.

About the bible you bet I would tell them kids about Abraham. I would tell them how God asked him to give up his son. But in the end being the perfect and loving God he saved his son in the end, But then I would tell him how in the NT God did give up his son. I would show him how the OT ties into the NT. How GOd asked Abraham to give up his son but loved Abraham so much he didn’t let him to it. But knowing that gave up his own to give us all eternal life. I would teach him all about Jesus and how the Blessed Mother loves him or her and how no matter how hard life gets they are there to help you.

I would take him to sunday school every Sunday to show him how loved he is.

I remember my little boy he is 23 now. But he was so cute big blue eyes, blond hair like snow he looked at me with those big blue eyes and said look mommy look what I made.

It was hanging around his neck with yarn and it said I AM SPECIAL. It said Jesus loves me yes I know. Because the bible tells me so. He said no matter how sad or bad things are Jesus is up there and he watches me, and even gave me my own angel. He wants me to be real good and not cheat and lie and he protects me.

Yeah I did real good by giving him Christ in his life.

Actually it is the best gift I ever gave him or his sister. Even now when they are so beat up they don’t tell me but they pray. I see them looking up with those big blue eyes even today at heaven. And I know they remember they are still special to God and he is still watching and protecting. I can’t do it anymore like I used to. But thats okay GOd does. Be safe Ron, have wonderful day.

 

[Ronsatron]

Hi Ron, and you are in. I started my prayers for you yesterday after you answered me. I didn’t have time to respond back. It was 95 here which is wonderful for us. So I spend my time praying silently in the pool. (Catholics are like that)

About when you got kids oh my, Think of me. Because trust me when you do you will not walk to church you are gonna run. You will want that soul to go to Jesus. Trust me you will see.

About the bible you bet I would tell them kids about Abraham. I would tell them how God asked him to give up his son. But in the end being the perfect and loving God he saved his son in the end, But then I would tell him how in the NT God did give up his son. I would show him how the OT ties into the NT. How GOd asked Abraham to give up his son but loved Abraham so much he didn’t let him to it. But knowing that gave up his own to give us all eternal life. I would teach him all about Jesus and how the Blessed Mother loves him or her and how no matter how hard life gets they are there to help you.

I would take him to sunday school every Sunday to show him how loved he is.

I remember my little boy he is 23 now. But he was so cute big blue eyes, blond hair like snow he looked at me with those big blue eyes and said look mommy look what I made.

It was hanging around his neck with yarn and it said I AM SPECIAL. It said Jesus loves me yes I know. Because the bible tells me so. He said no matter how sad or bad things are Jesus is up there and he watches me, and even gave me my own angel. He wants me to be real good and not cheat and lie and he protects me.

Yeah I did real good by giving him Christ in his life.

Actually it is the best gift I ever gave him or his sister. Even now when they are so beat up they don’t tell me but they pray. I see them looking up with those big blue eyes even today at heaven. And I know they remember they are still special to God and he is still watching and protecting. I can’t do it anymore like I used to. But thats okay GOd does. Be safe Ron, have wonderful day.

Hi Rinnie,

I will not be taking my kids to church. I will let them make up their own mind when they are old enourgh to make the choice for themselves. If they want to follow a god then they can decide which one, it will not be forced upon them. I personally dont think I could ever say that if they do not accept jesus, then they will burn in hell forever.
I agree that there is alot of good stories and morals in the bible, but it is the horrible stuff that is the issue. Let me give a scenario. Lets say i did raise my child as christian and told them to read the bible and follow it. Then lets say my son or daughter tells me that they are gay.
Do I then still love them and treat them the same, or do I follow the bible and stone them to death? If my child was to convert to islam, should I banish them from my house and tell them they will suffer for all eternity? No, of course not, and I dont think you would either.
I think we can raise our kids just fine with good morals without any god, christian or otherwise.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

About the bible you bet I would tell them kids about Abraham. I would tell them how God asked him to give up his son. But in the end being the perfect and loving God he saved his son in the end, But then I would tell him how in the NT God did give up his son. I would show him how the OT ties into the NT. How GOd asked Abraham to give up his son but loved Abraham so much he didn’t let him to it. But knowing that gave up his own to give us all eternal life. I would teach him all about Jesus and how the Blessed Mother loves him or her and how no matter how hard life gets they are there to help you.

Hello, What about Jephthah?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Hi Rinnie,

I will not be taking my kids to church.** I will let them make up their own mind when they are old enourgh to make the choice for themselves.** If they want to follow a god then they can decide which one, **it will not be forced upon them. **

Here here. Its sad that beliefs are stuffed down the throats of children when they are not able to think for their selfs.

Kids have religion forced on them and the same time in their lifes where they will accept the likes ot santa and the tooth fariy.

 

[josie_L]

You can put emphasis on the NT if you like, but for me the OT cannot be ignored. If you were to treat the rest of the OT with the same judgement as you do with all the genocide and nasty parts, then that would be fine. But by reading through other threads on this site and others, and speaking to some catholics, it is quite clear that they do use the OT for guidance. Look at some of the things written about homosexuals as an excellent example-and this is all justified becasue of what is written in the OT.
You may not view hell as a threat in the NT, but I do. “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth”. That passage as an example comes across as a threat to me, and people use it as such. I was told when I was young that I would go to hell for not believing, and that friends of mine would be certain to go to hell as they did not accept jesus (they were not christian). For me, that is not moral to teach children.

I never said to ignore the OT, but since the NT is part of the Bible too, and since it’s the part that relates to Jesus’s teachings I asked being you are an Ex Christian what part of it do you consider wrong? I will talk about the OT when you first tell me what you consider immoral in the NT. And again describing Hell is not a threat it is a warning, how others approach it is a different matter all together.

p.s. Can I understand what the purpose of coming on a Catholic forum is if your intent is to insult us?

 

[josie_L]

Here here. Its sad that beliefs are stuffed down the throats of children when they are not able to think for their selfs.

Kids have religion forced on them and the same time in their lifes where they will accept the likes ot santa and the tooth fariy.

Charlie can you do me a favor and leave this forum because quite frankly I don’t want your opinions shoved down my throat.

 

[Ronsatron]

I never said to ignore the OT, but since the NT is part of the Bible too, and since it’s the part that relates to Jesus’s teachings I asked being you are an Ex Christian what part of it do you consider wrong? I will talk about the OT when you first tell me what you consider immoral in the NT. And again describing Hell is not a threat it is a warning, how others approach it is a different matter all together.

p.s. Can I understand what the purpose of coming on a Catholic forum is if your intent is to insult us?

Again, I think the threat of eternal pain is enough to say it is imoral. You think it is not a threat, it is a warning, but I say it is a threat. So I hope that clears it up.

My intent is not to insult you at all, and I dont think I have done so. I cannot help what you get offended by. You do not have to agree with me, but that is fine. If me having a different opinion offens you, then there is not much I can do about that.

 

[Convert66]

Its sad that beliefs are stuffed down the throats of children when they are not able to think for their selfs.

I agree. But I do wonder what children you are thinking of here. My youngest child is 8 and she thinks for herself regularly. Or are you thinking more of infants who lack the ability for abstraction? Because an infant lacks the abilty for “belief” they are in the same boat as rocks and atheists. Luckily, they grow up and, unlike rocks, they are sentient.

Kids have religion forced on them and the same time in their lifes where they will accept the likes ot santa and the tooth fariy.

And yet, secularists see absolutely nothing wrong with instructing children, “at the same time of their lifes[sic] where they will accept the likes of Santa and the tooth fairy,” with the myth of “safe sex” and the religion of secular humanism. Go figure . . .

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Charlie can you do me a favor and leave this forum because quite frankly I don’t want your opinions shoved down my throat.

Your an adult an capable of thinking for yourself. Kids are not. Kids should be left until the are old enough to understand things before having beliefs thrust on them.

What on earth is wrong with letting them make up their own mind when they are old enourgh to make the choice for themselves?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

And yet, secularists see absolutely nothing wrong with instructing children, “at the same time of their lifes[sic] where they will accept the likes of Santa and the tooth fairy,” with the myth of “safe sex” and the religion of secular humanism. Go figure . . .

Really? I don’t know anyone tells kids about safe sex at a young age. Maybe we should teach kids in there early teens that condoms are immoral?

 

[Convert66]

Really? I don’t know anyone tells kids about safe sex at a young age.

How unfortunate. Maybe you do not have any kids, which explains your ignorance. Faye Wattleton, in 1986, told her Planned Parenthood audiences that the corporate goals for PP included getting K-12 sex education into all states (New Jersey at that time was the only state with K-12 sex education). Since then at least 21 states have began offering K-12 sex education. And, lest we forget, President Obama, when he was candidate Obama, assured a Planned Parenthood crowd that he was in favor of K-12 sex education.

What about SIECUS (Sexual Information and Education Council for the United States)? Founded by a former medical director for Planned Parenthood in the 60’s, on their website they include this:

"The 1990s were a time of great advances for SIECUS. We expanded our outreach to policymakers and communities by opening a public policy office in DC, developing a community advocacy project to help fight attacks on sexuality related issues, creating a media outreach initiative to ensure that sexuality related issues are accurately represented by the media. And, we even took our mission global, establishing an international program. SIECUS also published many books and manuals, including Guidelines for Comprehensive Education: Kindergarten – 12th Grade, which was quickly hailed as a major breakthrough in sexuality education. " (emphasis mine).

That’s merely the tip of the iceberg. But, not having any kids of your own I am not surprised that you were unaware of these facts.

Maybe we should teach kids in there early teens that condoms are immoral?

Well you have no philsophical or moral objections to teaching them that condoms are morally acceptable, so whats the difference? It is okay for you to impose your morality on teens (condoms are morally acceptable, despite their high failure rates) but no one who disagrees with you? That’s not very enlightened.

All my best . . .

 

[josie_L]

Hi Rinnie,

I will not be taking my kids to church. I will let them make up their own mind when they are old enourgh to make the choice for themselves. If they want to follow a god then they can decide which one, it will not be forced upon them. I personally dont think I could ever say that if they do not accept jesus, then they will burn in hell forever.
I agree that there is alot of good stories and morals in the bible, but it is the horrible stuff that is the issue. Let me give a scenario. Lets say i did raise my child as christian and told them to read the bible and follow it. Then lets say my son or daughter tells me that they are gay.
Do I then still love them and treat them the same, or do I follow the bible and stone them to death? If my child was to convert to islam, should I banish them from my house and tell them they will suffer for all eternity? No, of course not, and I dont think you would either.
I think we can raise our kids just fine with good morals without any god, christian or otherwise.

Oh my goodness, we are not beholden to the mosaic law so why in tarnation would you stone your child for being gay? Did you read the NT, did you not understand the story of the adulteress and how she was prevented from being stoned by Jesus? And if your son does convert to Islam nowhere does it state in the Bible (pertinent to us Christians) that you should banish him. The two greatest commandments Jesus gave us is to love God with all our heart mind and soul, and to love our neighbors, did you forget that?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

How unfortunate. Maybe you do not have any kids, which explains your ignorance. Faye Wattleton, in 1986, told her Planned Parenthood audiences that the corporate goals for PP included getting K-12 sex education into all states (New Jersey at that time was the only state with K-12 sex education). Since then at least 21 states have began offering K-12 sex education. And, lest we forget, President Obama, when he was candidate Obama, assured a Planned Parenthood crowd that he was in favor of K-12 sex education.

What about SIECUS (Sexual Information and Education Council for the United States)? Founded by a former medical director for Planned Parenthood in the 60’s, on their website they include this:

"The 1990s were a time of great advances for SIECUS. We expanded our outreach to policymakers and communities by opening a public policy office in DC, developing a community advocacy project to help fight attacks on sexuality related issues, creating a media outreach initiative to ensure that sexuality related issues are accurately represented by the media. And, we even took our mission global, establishing an international program. SIECUS also published many books and manuals, including Guidelines for Comprehensive Education: Kindergarten – 12th Grade, which was quickly hailed as a major breakthrough in sexuality education. " (emphasis mine).

That’s merely the tip of the iceberg. But, not having any kids of your own I am not surprised that you were unaware of these facts.

Well you have no philsophical or moral objections to teaching them that condoms are morally acceptable, so whats the difference? It is okay for you to impose your morality on teens (condoms are morally acceptable, despite their high failure rates) but no one who disagrees with you? That’s not very enlightened.

All my best . . .

Are you really trying to equate teaching children sex education at school with imposing religious dogma on them since birth?

Oh and if you teach them condoms are immoral guess what? They just wont use them, where would that get us?

 

[josie_L]

Your an adult an capable of thinking for yourself. Kids are not. Kids should be left until the are old enough to understand things before having beliefs thrust on them.

What on earth is wrong with letting them make up their own mind when they are old enourgh to make the choice for themselves?

Because we know better.

 

[Ronsatron]

Oh my goodness, we are not beholden to the mosaic law so why in tarnation would you stone your child for being gay? Did you read the NT, did you not understand the story of the adulteress and how she was prevented from being stoned by Jesus? And if your son does convert to Islam nowhere does it state in the Bible (pertinent to us Christians) that you should banish him. The two greatest commandments Jesus gave us is to love God with all our heart mind and soul, and to love our neighbors, did you forget that?

So you do pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow and teach? Or do you just follow what your particular faith tells you to follow? We agree that there are good stories in the bible, but you can look past the horrors and I cannot, simple as that.
Also, there is nothing wrong with educating children on the importance of safe sex in my opinion. The more educated they are on any matter then the more chance they will have in making the correct decision.

 

[josie_L]

Again, I think the threat of eternal pain is enough to say it is imoral. You think it is not a threat, it is a warning, but I say it is a threat. So I hope that clears it up.

My intent is not to insult you at all, and I dont think I have done so. I cannot help what you get offended by. You do not have to agree with me, but that is fine. If me having a different opinion offens you, then there is not much I can do about that.

It bothers me that as an ex-Catholic you should come here to tell us what you think about a bible/faith/God you don’t believe/care in anymore?

p.s. I don’t get you people, be happy and move on.

 

[Ronsatron]

It bothers me that as an ex-Catholic you should come here to tell us what you think about a bible/faith/God you don’t believe/care in anymore?

p.s. I don’t get you people, be happy and move on.

Hmmm, I seem to remember you asking me questions. If it bothers you, then ignore or do not read my posts. Problem solved.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Because we know better.

Ah, because they might not agree with you?