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bobballen_18
Guest
What are the most common reasons atheists give for not believing, and how do we as Catholics (and other Christians) refute them?
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karebear92
Guest
They usually say there is no evidence of a God, and we usually respond that one has to have faith and that there is no disproof of God.
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Trishie
Guest
Faith is a gift, as the Pope states. The lack of it is something that in itself cannot be refuted.
youtube.com/watch?v=3QuRe66k8m8
However, if a person is convinced by the evil and troubles in this world that a loving God cannot exist, there are arguments one can use, but what you cannot successfully argue with, is the emotional and consequent intellectual convictions these persons have resulting from their observations and experience of what is wrong and evil in this world, or because of the disappointments experienced in their lives. There are certainly arguments…but using them to convince some atheists achieves nothing.
Others may be open to argument. But there is no guaranteed way of convincing an atheist that God exists.
We cannot argue that there is no evil in this world. My husband became an atheist because he had tried to be the best Catholic he could possibly be. And he was exemplary. Because he is someone with a strong sense of duty that gave everything 120% he became ill gradually and ended with a complete emotional and physical collapse. He did not blame God for his illness, his loss of the ability to work, the loss our our home. He was asked what 'broke his heart. “God did. I tried my best and there was no response.” It wasn’t that he became ill and lost everything. It was because “God did nothing.” He is a practical man who expects practical results in a practical reality. There are no arguments I can use to convince a highly intelligent, utterly practical man as he. I can only be thankful that he never blocks my faith, doesn’t object to my attempts to help others in CAF, and does practical acts of kindness for others though he expects no reward. I offer his many sufferings, his arthritic pain to God. One priest went as far as calling him ‘an unbelieving saint.’ I believe he is a better person than I.
Some people one can argue with regarding atheism, and regarding the problem of evil. Others in the pain or anger they feel regarding evil and harm in this world, or in the integrity of their logic, cannot accept the arguments.
Of course, aspects of interpretations of science are also why there are atheists. I realize that many believers cannot fathom why not all believe. Maybe they’re lucky or blessed.
There was a time when I battled with faith. Due to her sincere obedience to Church teachings my mother died during her last pregnancy, aged 43, leaving nine children ranging down to 4 years old. It was her 11th pregnancy. I was a teen. The consequences for my siblings and I were lifelong. The emotional cost was enormous. I studied philosophy and logic in what emerged as a strongly atheistic philosophy department. I could not continue to defend faith. I’d had questions regarding God as a child in primary school. All that anyone, priests, or my Dad could say was, “you just have to have faith.” Not enough answer for a constantly active mind. I wanted to sincerely find faith but was honest enough not to kid myself. Arguments are not enough to convince all atheists, though they can go a way towards helping atheists to find God.
It was not arguments that returned me to faith. It was a sudden, unexpected grace. I woke that morning with not the least premonition that later that morning I would phone a priest in a nearby parish and ask for a general Confession. That was in 1978. It was a gift of God.
My family prayed. I was outside the Church, with complete sincerity, for ten years. I would gaze into the sky, or lie in my bed at night, “Power of Goodness and love, if You exist, please find yourself to me. I cannot find You.” But I had to be utterly honest. I knew anything can be postulated but that does not make it true. The day of my sudden graced return, I phoned my beloved Dad. Later my step-Mum rang to say he then went to his room and cried for an hour. I just wanted to point out that it’s good to have the responding arguments, but prayer is essential. God’s grace is essential. For those who argue against atheism it does need to be understood that atheism is honest conviction. There are people who who were former atheists and agnostics here who may have found that argument convinced the, I read my mother’s ‘apologetics’ books when young. Arguments alone do not necessarily convince.
youtube.com/watch?v=3QuRe66k8m8
However, if a person is convinced by the evil and troubles in this world that a loving God cannot exist, there are arguments one can use, but what you cannot successfully argue with, is the emotional and consequent intellectual convictions these persons have resulting from their observations and experience of what is wrong and evil in this world, or because of the disappointments experienced in their lives. There are certainly arguments…but using them to convince some atheists achieves nothing.
Others may be open to argument. But there is no guaranteed way of convincing an atheist that God exists.
We cannot argue that there is no evil in this world. My husband became an atheist because he had tried to be the best Catholic he could possibly be. And he was exemplary. Because he is someone with a strong sense of duty that gave everything 120% he became ill gradually and ended with a complete emotional and physical collapse. He did not blame God for his illness, his loss of the ability to work, the loss our our home. He was asked what 'broke his heart. “God did. I tried my best and there was no response.” It wasn’t that he became ill and lost everything. It was because “God did nothing.” He is a practical man who expects practical results in a practical reality. There are no arguments I can use to convince a highly intelligent, utterly practical man as he. I can only be thankful that he never blocks my faith, doesn’t object to my attempts to help others in CAF, and does practical acts of kindness for others though he expects no reward. I offer his many sufferings, his arthritic pain to God. One priest went as far as calling him ‘an unbelieving saint.’ I believe he is a better person than I.
Some people one can argue with regarding atheism, and regarding the problem of evil. Others in the pain or anger they feel regarding evil and harm in this world, or in the integrity of their logic, cannot accept the arguments.
Of course, aspects of interpretations of science are also why there are atheists. I realize that many believers cannot fathom why not all believe. Maybe they’re lucky or blessed.
There was a time when I battled with faith. Due to her sincere obedience to Church teachings my mother died during her last pregnancy, aged 43, leaving nine children ranging down to 4 years old. It was her 11th pregnancy. I was a teen. The consequences for my siblings and I were lifelong. The emotional cost was enormous. I studied philosophy and logic in what emerged as a strongly atheistic philosophy department. I could not continue to defend faith. I’d had questions regarding God as a child in primary school. All that anyone, priests, or my Dad could say was, “you just have to have faith.” Not enough answer for a constantly active mind. I wanted to sincerely find faith but was honest enough not to kid myself. Arguments are not enough to convince all atheists, though they can go a way towards helping atheists to find God.
It was not arguments that returned me to faith. It was a sudden, unexpected grace. I woke that morning with not the least premonition that later that morning I would phone a priest in a nearby parish and ask for a general Confession. That was in 1978. It was a gift of God.
My family prayed. I was outside the Church, with complete sincerity, for ten years. I would gaze into the sky, or lie in my bed at night, “Power of Goodness and love, if You exist, please find yourself to me. I cannot find You.” But I had to be utterly honest. I knew anything can be postulated but that does not make it true. The day of my sudden graced return, I phoned my beloved Dad. Later my step-Mum rang to say he then went to his room and cried for an hour. I just wanted to point out that it’s good to have the responding arguments, but prayer is essential. God’s grace is essential. For those who argue against atheism it does need to be understood that atheism is honest conviction. There are people who who were former atheists and agnostics here who may have found that argument convinced the, I read my mother’s ‘apologetics’ books when young. Arguments alone do not necessarily convince.
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bobballen_18
Guest
Thank you for sharing, Trishie. I’m happy for you!
Honestly, I can see where you’re coming from, although I have always believed God has existed. I can see why some people, who may have not been strongly brought up in a Catholic or other Christian faith, or had something bad happen to them, can’t bring themselves to believe in God. So I do understand that arguments don’t always convince. I was just asking this question because I can see how the answer “you just have to have faith” just will never convince someone who is strong in their atheistic belief.
Yes, I suppose a common argument of atheists don’t believe in God because they can’t believe he would allow evil into this world. And sometimes I think I know how to respond to that, but I guess I don’t, really. Things like, “why would God allow natural disasters?”
Honestly, I can see where you’re coming from, although I have always believed God has existed. I can see why some people, who may have not been strongly brought up in a Catholic or other Christian faith, or had something bad happen to them, can’t bring themselves to believe in God. So I do understand that arguments don’t always convince. I was just asking this question because I can see how the answer “you just have to have faith” just will never convince someone who is strong in their atheistic belief.
Yes, I suppose a common argument of atheists don’t believe in God because they can’t believe he would allow evil into this world. And sometimes I think I know how to respond to that, but I guess I don’t, really. Things like, “why would God allow natural disasters?”
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freethinker83
Guest
Hi there. Let me first same I’m not looking to get into a pointless debate on what constitues proof, etc. I am going to try to leave one simple reply and leave it at that.
The biggest reason I don’t believe is because I do not see any real, testable evidence that god exists. I do not believe things on faith if they cannot be tested, challenged, or have consistant results.
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bobballen_18
Guest
Hi! I’m not trying to get into a debate either, it’s just that I am curious. So I just want to make sure I understand you correctly - are you saying that God cannot be tested, challenged, or provide consistent results?
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karebear92
Guest
Although I do not want to speak for him, yes, that is generally what they say. For example, we will give an argument such as how did matter come from absolute nothingness, and then there will be a scientific debate until it dwindles down to two people (one Catholic and one Atheist), and generally the Atheist will end by saying that it is irrational to jump to the conclusion of God. One might not be able to explain at the moment how the universe came into being, but it would be irrational and unaccepted if someone did the same thing in other terms. Christians, to counter that, would say that you have faith and choose the one that is more rational. And then the thread dies.
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freethinker83
Guest
I couldn’t have said it better myself!
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Flyingg
Guest
My atheism and the disbelief of many people has few or nothing to do with our personal experiences. The existence of suffer, misery and pain could be one of the many many reasons we don’t believe in religions and gods. Just to clear it more.
If you husband blamed God, then he was not an atheist.
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Trishie
Guest
Fair comment.
That was transitional. He was a replying to a question from his doctor at the height of his illness many years ago…and he is in fact an atheist. He does not believe in God or an afterlife.I’m aware it is a matter of conviction for atheists, not a refusal to recognise God but a genuine disbelief in a divine being and a genuine perception of the universe from defined scientific principles. There are two sides to the argument, and I know much that can be said on both sides…but as it happens, myself believe. I was a very devout child which put God center stage of my life, of every day, daily Mass, lots of prayers. Even for a devout child who has a very questioning mind, sometimes there is a time of fire to go though. In my husband’s case, he went from no faith to faith, then back to no faith.
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Flyingg
Guest
Fair comment.
I’m aware it is a matter of conviction for atheists, not a refusal to recognise God but a genuine disbelief in a divine being and a genuine perception of the universe from defined scientific principles. There are two sides to the argument, and I know much that can be said on both sides…but as it happens, myself believe. I was a very devout child which put God center stage of my life, of every day, daily Mass, lots of prayers. Even for a devout child who has a very questioning mind, sometimes there is a time of fire to go though. In my husband’s case, he went from no faith to faith, then back to no faith.
You have a radio?
You cannot see, hear, smell, touch or taste radiowaves but you believe they are there!
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freethinker83
Guest
Hi there.
I really don’t want to debate. That being said, yes I have a radio. I can tune in to a radio station which provides evidence that radio waves exist.
You are alive which provides evidence that God exists.
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Flyingg
Guest
===> God is alive which provides evidence that an Upper God exists. Does this make sense?
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twb1621
Guest
My friend, if you look in the mirror and honestly ask yourself how you came to be and search the world over for that answer, you wont find it in the mind of any man. But if you research Scripture in its lineage and word, and realize what it provides with the impossibility that by man alone it could speak of all it does, past present and future and its fulfilled prophecies; how it remains relevant to every event that has occurred to societies and individuals through today, and how there is not an argument one can raise that is not addressed, you will come to recognize there is only one source that could know what to present that for over thousands of years no man could outgrow in regard to its relevance. We say that rational thought supports faith and it is true. The doubts of the existence of God under the premise that the senses can not prove He exists abandon rational thought. One can not expect to have a relationship with someone in whom they express no interest. Man or woman, if you want to “get to know” someone and the desire to have a relationship with them, you have to take the initiative to learn about them. It is true with God. Once having developed a relationship with someone, you must have faith in them for that relationship to remain meaningful.
One cannot say that any loving relationship he or she has with another person does not require faith in them unless one would claim to know the other person’s future actions, motivations and choices. The same is true with God.
But we can not confront someone we do not know and express doubt in them and their credibility insisting they prove themselves to us with an ultimatum that if they don’t, we will reject them, and expect to develop a relationship with them. It is like my not knowing you but confronting you and saying, “I do not believe you could be a credible positive influence in my life and I have no interest in getting to know you to make that determination, so unless you decide to prove to me you are credible and will be a positive influence in my life, I reject you.” This is the atheistic approach to God. But if one wants to learn the truth seriously enough to search for it, they will find it. Think honestly about it; if man followed the premise throughout his existence that nothing exists except what he can experience with his senses, we would still be wearing animal skins for clothing. It is only by searching that we discover. If I am wrong you have nothing to loose.
Peace brother
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Flyingg
Guest
Ok, I will send you a youtube video on your inbox that explains what you just mentioned.
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twb1621
Guest
Actually it did not pertain to what I had wrote so I responded PM. thanks again.
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Flyingg
Guest
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