Atheist author fights back

[Maranatha]

From a book review in my local paper:

Atheist author fights back

His new book might be considered the CliffsNotes for that title. In a trim 91 pages, he fires out arguments like bullets on why religion (Christianity in particular) is not only absurd, but dangerous as well. He wrote the book, he says, to address questions that came up after the publication of his previous book.

The Bible is a guide to morality: He calls this assertion “simply astounding.” The Bible, he notes, countenances slavery, parents beating (and even killing) their children and stoning deaths for heresy, adultery, homosexuality, working on the Sabbath, and more. Of the U.S. cities with the highest rates of violent crime, 76 percent are in “red” states, largely considered most religious.

• The Bible can prophesy the future: If that were true, he writes, it would speak with more omniscience. “You would expect it to contain a passage such as ‘In the latter half of the 20th century, humankind will develop a globally linked system of computers - the principles of which I set forth in Leviticus - and this system shall be called the Internet.’”

• The Bible can prophesy the future: If that were true, he writes, it would speak with more omniscience. “You would expect it to contain a passage such as ‘In the latter half of the 20th century, humankind will develop a globally linked system of computers - the principles of which I set forth in Leviticus - and this system shall be called the Internet.’”

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[SemperJase]

Of the U.S. cities with the highest rates of violent crime, 76 percent are in “red” states, largely considered most religious.

Shows you can present anything with statistics. While those cities might be in a “red” state, the cities themselves are “blue”. For example Colorado tends to vote Republican while Denver itself is a Democrat bastion.

 

[Maranatha]

Shows you can present anything with statistics. While those cities might be in a “red” state, the cities themselves are “blue”. For example Colorado tends to vote Republican while Denver itself is a Democrat bastion.

That’s a good point. The statistics doesn’t prove the correlation either. Red states tend to have a lot more children and blue states tend to have more abortions. We also know that most violent crimes are committed by young males in their late teens or early twenties.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who commented that: “There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics.”

 

[Mersenne]

Statistics may be lies, but the bible still promotes slavery and rape. Saying the bible is a good source of morality is a joke.

 

[Maranatha]

Statistics may be lies, but the bible still promotes slavery and rape. Saying the bible is a good source of morality is a joke.

Please cite examples? Even the author of the book doesn’t go as far as to say the Bible promotes slavery. To be specific he said the Bible countenances slavery.

 

[Blackbog]

Regardless of the various historical facts mentioned in the Bible regarding slavery, stoning, etc., the Catholic Church does not advocate those things. Your problem seems to be with fundamentalists who use the Bible as the sole source of their religion.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Mersenne

Statistics may be lies, but the bible still promotes slavery and rape. Saying the bible is a good source of morality is a joke.

I don’t think you’ve read it … you certainly seem not to have read all of it.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Sam Harris says:

“The problem is that liberals and moderates don’t know what it’s like to be certain of God. They lose touch with the fact that millions of people are certain of these facts . . . I think liberals are dangerously out of touch with the death cult brewing in the Muslim world and how religion is at its bottom.”

Actually, the liberals are dangerously out of touch with the death cult brewing in their own back yard. It isn’t the churches that are promoting abortion on demand. It isn’t the churches that are promoting the legalization of euthanasia. It isn’t the churches that are promoting the legalization of pornography and drugs that kill. Guess who is promoting the cult of death in America:

The liberals and their moderate bedfellows!

 

[Magicsilence]

From a book review in my local paper:

Atheist author fights back

His new book might be considered the CliffsNotes for that title. In a trim 91 pages, he fires out arguments like bullets on why religion (Christianity in particular) is not only absurd, but dangerous as well. He wrote the book, he says, to address questions that came up after the publication of his previous book.

The Bible is a guide to morality: He calls this assertion “simply astounding.” The Bible, he notes, countenances slavery, parents beating (and even killing) their children and stoning deaths for heresy, adultery, homosexuality, working on the Sabbath, and more. Of the U.S. cities with the highest rates of violent crime, 76 percent are in “red” states, largely considered most religious.

• The Bible can prophesy the future: If that were true, he writes, it would speak with more omniscience. “You would expect it to contain a passage such as ‘In the latter half of the 20th century, humankind will develop a globally linked system of computers - the principles of which I set forth in Leviticus - and this system shall be called the Internet.’”

• The Bible can prophesy the future: If that were true, he writes, it would speak with more omniscience. “You would expect it to contain a passage such as ‘In the latter half of the 20th century, humankind will develop a globally linked system of computers - the principles of which I set forth in Leviticus - and this system shall be called the Internet.’”

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Tell me, what is he fighting against?



A God that doesnt exist?

 

[deb1]

Tell me, what is he fighting against?



A God that doesnt exist?

This was my question. If he doesn’t believe in God, then why does he care what the bible teaches?

There are some atheists who everybit as zealous in their evangelical attempts as extreme fundamentalists.

 

[Maranatha]

Sam Harris says:

“The problem is that liberals and moderates don’t know what it’s like to be certain of God. They lose touch with the fact that millions of people are certain of these facts . . . I think liberals are dangerously out of touch with the death cult brewing in the Muslim world and how religion is at its bottom.”

Actually, the liberals are dangerously out of touch with the death cult brewing in their own back yard. It isn’t the churches that are promoting abortion on demand. It isn’t the churches that are promoting the legalization of euthanasia. It isn’t the churches that are promoting the legalization of pornography and drugs that kill. Guess who is promoting the cult of death in America:

The liberals and their moderate bedfellows!

I think the author has half a point. In the Pope’s recent speech the inflamed some Muslim communities, he commented, paraphrasing, that Islam is a faith without reason. Another poster commented that the author has problem with fundamentalists. They seem to have a similar problem. Of course Mr. Harris is going tot he other extreme of reason without faith. I think the Pope hit the nail on the head when he said that only a balance of faith and reason brings us to the fullness of the truth.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Tell me, what is he fighting against?



A God that doesnt exist?

Very good point. It is one of those :banghead: type of things.

 

[deb1]

I think the author has half a point. In the Pope’s recent speech the inflamed some Muslim communities, he commented, paraphrasing, that Islam is a faith without reason. Another poster commented that the author has problem with fundamentalists. They seem to have a similar problem. Of course Mr. Harris is going tot he other extreme of reason without faith. I think the Pope hit the nail on the head when he said that only a balance of faith and reason brings us to the fullness of the truth.

Hooray for the Pope for pointing out that religion should be a combination of faith and reason.

Sadly, many in America equate fundamentalists with Christianity. That is because those who go to extremes are the most vocal.

 

[celluloid]

Magicsilence:

Tell me, what is he fighting against?



A God that doesnt exist?

deb1:

This was my question. If he doesn’t believe in God, then why does he care what the bible teaches?

There are some atheists who everybit as zealous in their evangelical attempts as extreme fundamentalists.

ChristIsTheWay:

Very good point. It is one of those type of things.

Well it’s really very simple:

1. We all have a moral duty to speak the truth as we know it, with the best of our ability, including theists and atheists alike. That means we should politely debate, discuss and explain our beliefs with others willing to do so. (Unfortunately, some people of almost every belief system prefer to be hostile about it)
2. Supernatural religious beliefs have consequences for society via the behavior of believers, whether those beliefs are true or not.

For instance, a significant minority of theists may be complacent about the deterioration of the environment because they believe that God would intervene or that it is part of God’s plan for the end times. This is not necessarily the case but nevertheless, it is a concern to nontheists. We all like to be on the same page when confronting our society’s problems.

1. All people tend to feel more comfortable with people of like beliefs. Atheists are a small minority and it would naturally make them feel more accepted if more people believed as they did, or at least more people understood how atheists feel and that atheism is a reasonable position to hold.

As an atheist I recognize that theism is reasonable, but I simply disagree with it as a truth claim.

 

[Mersenne]

Please cite examples? Even the author of the book doesn’t go as far as to say the Bible promotes slavery. To be specific he said the Bible countenances slavery.

Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward" (1 Peter 2:18).

“Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ”(Ephesians 6:5)

"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids” (Leviticus 25:44).

“And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money” (Exodus 21:20-21).

“And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation, he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife: her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish” (Exodus 21:7-10).

“If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death. . . . If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned” (Exodus 21:28-32).

“Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever" (Leviticus 25:44-46).

So, it commands people to take slaves, says it’s okay to beat slaves to death, slaves must be good and kind to their masters even if their masters beat them, foreigners should all be taken as slaves, it’s okay to sell your daughter into slavery

Wonderful moral guide, and I see you don’t even deny that the bible promotes rape.

 

[Mersenne]

Regardless of the various historical facts mentioned in the Bible regarding slavery, stoning, etc., the Catholic Church does not advocate those things. Your problem seems to be with fundamentalists who use the Bible as the sole source of their religion.

My problem is with the claim that the bible is a good guide to morality. I do, incedently, have a problem with 90% of christians who say the bible is divinely inspired, and therefore these calls to violence, rape, slavery, genocide, ect, are all either true or “metephorically” true.

 

[Mersenne]

Mersenne

Statistics may be lies, but the bible still promotes slavery and rape. Saying the bible is a good source of morality is a joke.

I don’t think you’ve read it … you certainly seem not to have read all of it.

I’ve read through all of it twice. I don’t think YOU’VE read it, most christians haven’t. The book is drenched with immorality, it’s hard to miss.

 

[I_Leatherman]

My problem is with the claim that the bible is a good guide to morality. I do, incedently, have a problem with 90% of christians who say the bible is divinely inspired, and therefore these calls to violence, rape, slavery, genocide, ect, are all either true or “metephorically” true.

‘Athiest Author Fights Back’ - does that include violence

 

[Jaypeeto4]

The Bible does not promote slavery or rape.
As with easy divorce, which Jesus discussed with regard to the Law covenant, many things were tolerated under the Old Law that were never intended by God, but were tolerated because of the hardness of heart of the Israelites. Easy divorce was but one example.
As for the Israelite exterminations of the Canaanite peoples under God’s command, that was a very unusual circumstance. God had told Abraham 400 years before that he and his people could not have the land yet because the wickedness of the land’s inhabitants had not yet reached the point of no return. When it had, the Israelites were told by God (who has the ultimate right to decide life and death) to go in and wipe out those wicked civilizations. Don’t like it? Argue with Yahweh. You’ll lose.

Paul’s urging of Christian slaves to be shining examples to their masters was not because slavery was such a cool or great thing, but a means of Christians bearing witness to the edifying and sanctifying power of Christ and the Holy Spirit, with conversion of sinners in view. Christ, God in the Flesh, deliberately suffered violence, torture, and death. Christians, for our sanctification, are called to endure mistreatment as well.
And by the way, Christ easily COULD HAVE “come down off the cross.”