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duffyk4
Guest
How would you go about converting an atheist to christianity in particular? What arguments could you use to show that Christianity is the truth?
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clmowry
Guest
First off, pray that your atheist friend is brought to Christ.
God will do the converting, if you’re lucky He’ll use you to help.
I wish I had examples of effective apologetics to atheists that I could offer up to you. But I don’t.
I would speculate that the starting point for most “true atheists” * would need to be acceptance that there “must be” a God based on the observable universe.*
God only knows what any given atheist might accept for that “proof.”
For me, and +90% of the rest of world’s historic population, the impossibility of our world existing as it does without a creator seems self evident.
For the few atheists I’ve known, just the opposite has been true.
Their intellect tells them what we see around us, even who we are, is simply a result of random chance.
In general they have set the intellectual “burden of proof” to take them away from this belief so high that it can never be met, so from a human perspective, the game is over before you start.
In one conversation I asked what it would take for a particular atheist to believe in God and essentially what it came down too is he would have to be forced by God to believe (i.e. God would have to violate his free will, which would never happen.)
He professed that even if Christ Himself appeared to him and demonstrated His Godhood via miraculous proofs that he would assume that he had not in fact seen God, but had instead gone crazy.
Now if this miraculous event were to take place I doubt that he would really continue to maintain this position for very long, but how can you expect to have an effective dialogue on the subject of God when someone has already concluded that there is nothing that would ever lead them to believe in God?
I hope someone here, maybe a former atheist, can be of more help.
Good luck and God bless,
Chuck
God will do the converting, if you’re lucky He’ll use you to help.
I wish I had examples of effective apologetics to atheists that I could offer up to you. But I don’t.
I would speculate that the starting point for most “true atheists” * would need to be acceptance that there “must be” a God based on the observable universe.*
God only knows what any given atheist might accept for that “proof.”
For me, and +90% of the rest of world’s historic population, the impossibility of our world existing as it does without a creator seems self evident.
For the few atheists I’ve known, just the opposite has been true.
Their intellect tells them what we see around us, even who we are, is simply a result of random chance.
In general they have set the intellectual “burden of proof” to take them away from this belief so high that it can never be met, so from a human perspective, the game is over before you start.
In one conversation I asked what it would take for a particular atheist to believe in God and essentially what it came down too is he would have to be forced by God to believe (i.e. God would have to violate his free will, which would never happen.)
He professed that even if Christ Himself appeared to him and demonstrated His Godhood via miraculous proofs that he would assume that he had not in fact seen God, but had instead gone crazy.
Now if this miraculous event were to take place I doubt that he would really continue to maintain this position for very long, but how can you expect to have an effective dialogue on the subject of God when someone has already concluded that there is nothing that would ever lead them to believe in God?
I hope someone here, maybe a former atheist, can be of more help.
Good luck and God bless,
Chuck
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Optimusmastro
Guest
Try to have your friend prove that God doesn’t exist! Thomas Aquinas five arguments still hold a lot of water and in large part were responsable for the conversion of such intellectual giants as Jacques and Raisa Maritain.
God Bless
Marco/Optimusmastro
www.prime1-marco.blogspot.com
God Bless
Marco/Optimusmastro
www.prime1-marco.blogspot.com
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clmowry
Guest
Do many actually accept that challenge or do they just stick with the “you can’t prove a negative” or “you believe in God so the burden of proof is yours” game.
Chuck
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Julian0404
Guest
You can only give them the truth and then turn them over to the Holy Spirit and pray that HE moves them to accept the truth.
Get the five proofs of GOD as presented by Saint Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica and share them.
Get the five proofs of GOD as presented by Saint Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica and share them.
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justamoose89
Guest
Best things you can do:
1.) Pray
2.) Live and act as Christ would have you to live (the best witness is through your own actions sometimes
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3.) Give them a copy of Case of Christ by Lee Strobel!
1.) Pray
2.) Live and act as Christ would have you to live (the best witness is through your own actions sometimes
)3.) Give them a copy of Case of Christ by Lee Strobel!
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justamoose89
Guest
correction: Case FOR Christ By Lee Strobel
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Angel7
Guest
I would Share The Faith with someone.
But I wouldn’t go and preach everything to them.
Preaching to people can drive them further away.
I would Share The Faith when the oppurtunity arises, like during a good moment.
May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
But I wouldn’t go and preach everything to them.
Preaching to people can drive them further away.
I would Share The Faith when the oppurtunity arises, like during a good moment.
May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
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EricFilmer
Guest
Sometimes it may be helpful to recommend that they read C.S. Lewis’ “Mere Christianity” (or at least the first part of it). Basically it outlines the rational thought processes of how Lewis went from being an atheist to a Christian. I have met atheists who admitted that this perked their curiosity, but I do not know if they ever, indeed, read the book.
“Mere Christianity” can be seen as something that adds to the concepts St. Thomas Aquinas described, so the two works compliment each other.
Generally speaking, Lewis discerned that the role of the human conscience and the universality of human concepts of moral behavior point to a transcendental source (i.e., God). Lewis gives very clear and practical examples to illustrate his points. It is a very “readable” book, too. No dense theology here or deep philosophical concepts. As a matter-of-fact, if I recall correctly, the first part of “Mere Christianity” was originally written as a script for a radio show.
Once the existence of God is established, Lewis uses his famous “Lord, Liar or Lunatic” observation to come to the realization that Jesus is God in the flesh.
But, as others mentioned above, also pray on behalf of these people. I know of a Benedictine monk who taught Thomistic Philosophy and knows all the logical arguments for the existence of God. Once I asked him a similar question to OP’s, and he responded, “Faith is a gift from God; no one is ever converted by a clever argument.”
“Mere Christianity” can be seen as something that adds to the concepts St. Thomas Aquinas described, so the two works compliment each other.
Generally speaking, Lewis discerned that the role of the human conscience and the universality of human concepts of moral behavior point to a transcendental source (i.e., God). Lewis gives very clear and practical examples to illustrate his points. It is a very “readable” book, too. No dense theology here or deep philosophical concepts. As a matter-of-fact, if I recall correctly, the first part of “Mere Christianity” was originally written as a script for a radio show.
Once the existence of God is established, Lewis uses his famous “Lord, Liar or Lunatic” observation to come to the realization that Jesus is God in the flesh.
But, as others mentioned above, also pray on behalf of these people. I know of a Benedictine monk who taught Thomistic Philosophy and knows all the logical arguments for the existence of God. Once I asked him a similar question to OP’s, and he responded, “Faith is a gift from God; no one is ever converted by a clever argument.”
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JohnDamian
Guest
I’m sorry, there is no one way to convert atheists.
Of course, setting a good moral example is the key note in getting an atheist to open up to a discussion with you; but it in itself is not enough - I know quite a few Protestants who are moral people; some perhaps moreso than myself; but it does not lead me to convert.
Being nice only allows discussion to take place, it does not win the debate itself.
From then onwards it is very subjective, the course taken to convert an atheist, or get them to consider God is not something you can just throw at them in any one book; be it the Bible, the Catechism, or any other book. There is no one book for converting people.
I can only speak for myself, when I used to be an atheist; I was not at all persuaded by any biblical books (redactions/historicities), or devotional books; it was the systematic collapse of my scientism coupled with an emerging understanding of the underlying rationality of the church that converted me; through the scholasics Alexander of Hales, Scotus, and to a lesser extend Aquinas.
Showing that the bible is historically correct, showing that the church is moral, or any other single thing is no universal cure to atheism, it really depends on the discerning what the atheist is missing or misunderstanding that is the root of the problem, be it scientism, historicity etc. It’s individual.
Of course, setting a good moral example is the key note in getting an atheist to open up to a discussion with you; but it in itself is not enough - I know quite a few Protestants who are moral people; some perhaps moreso than myself; but it does not lead me to convert.
Being nice only allows discussion to take place, it does not win the debate itself.
From then onwards it is very subjective, the course taken to convert an atheist, or get them to consider God is not something you can just throw at them in any one book; be it the Bible, the Catechism, or any other book. There is no one book for converting people.
I can only speak for myself, when I used to be an atheist; I was not at all persuaded by any biblical books (redactions/historicities), or devotional books; it was the systematic collapse of my scientism coupled with an emerging understanding of the underlying rationality of the church that converted me; through the scholasics Alexander of Hales, Scotus, and to a lesser extend Aquinas.
Showing that the bible is historically correct, showing that the church is moral, or any other single thing is no universal cure to atheism, it really depends on the discerning what the atheist is missing or misunderstanding that is the root of the problem, be it scientism, historicity etc. It’s individual.
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Contarini
Guest
It’s not a game. It’s a perfectly legitimate rejoinder to an absurd “challenge.”
Edwin
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JulieAA
Guest
I do have quite a few atheist friends in my life. Some are the “stiffed neck” people. Some have left Christianity because of things that they either thought God should have/have not done in their lives and they blame Him. Some just do not want to be accountable for their actions and how they conduct their lives. I honestly believe that Jesus Christ could appear before any of them and they would still deny He exists. Our job is to share the Good News and the rest is up to the Holy Spirit. They have the free will to either accept or deny, but as I told them, they can never say that they did not know.
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clmowry
Guest
I actually thought about leaving the “game” part out, but I left it in, because I think for many atheists most discussions about God are exactly that: a game they like to play with the “deluded”.
In retrospect, you are probably right, it is unfair of me to characterize it that way.
That said, I agree, it’s an absurd “challenge”, which is why I asked if many actually try and prove there is not a God.
I would guess not.
When I see this “challenge” put forth the usual rebuttal is something along the lines of: “I can’t prove there aren’t purple unicorns either, but that doesn’t make them any more real than your God.”
Chuck
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sadiebelle
Guest
It would seem to me that God could be proven to an atheist with repeatable, testable evidence. The same way that you would convince an atheist of anything else.
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JulieAA
Guest
Proving that God exists is not the real agenda for them. Accepting God for who He is…there lies their problem. That would tell them that they are not in full control of their lives.
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Desertsailor
Guest
I don’t believe in atheists. You’ll never find an atheist in a foxhole. When their lives are on the line and they could die any second they all pray.
I think people who call themselves atheists are really people who are angry with God because they can’t make him in their own image. They can’t be convinced of anything because they have more faith than the people they are talking to.
Personally I’m tired of their mainstay arguments:
The God of the Old Testament is cruel and arbitrary.
A God of love wouldn’t make a place like Hell.
Why does God let babies die?
Why would a God who is all powerful not cure all diseases?
Why doesn’t he let me win the lottery?
Why doesn’t God just make Heaven on earth and let all of us be happy?
All of the atheist arguments are simply childish whining because God isn’t making them happy and keeping them entertained.
I think people who call themselves atheists are really people who are angry with God because they can’t make him in their own image. They can’t be convinced of anything because they have more faith than the people they are talking to.
Personally I’m tired of their mainstay arguments:
The God of the Old Testament is cruel and arbitrary.
A God of love wouldn’t make a place like Hell.
Why does God let babies die?
Why would a God who is all powerful not cure all diseases?
Why doesn’t he let me win the lottery?
Why doesn’t God just make Heaven on earth and let all of us be happy?
All of the atheist arguments are simply childish whining because God isn’t making them happy and keeping them entertained.
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duffyk4
Guest
This seems to be a differing opinion of most everyone else who has replied here. Care to explain your position?
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Gift_from_God
Guest
I came back after being inspired by a Friar I know
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sadiebelle
Guest
Um, well, I’m just working this out in my own mind as I type, so be kind with me. Atheists or skeptics or whatever rely on evidence, right? I mean, to accept something as being real, they use the scientific method which means that something has to be repeatable and testable. It can’t just be a one time thing like an appearance, because you couldn’t test that to see if it was real and you couldn’t repeat that. It could be mental illness.
So, if all of the double blind experiments ever done to see if prayer worked showed that it did, that would be good evidence of a supernatural. If all of the experiments ever done to see if those that prayed to the Christian God as opposed to any other had better outcomes, that would be good evidence that Christianity is true vs. any other religion.
But that is not what has happened. There have been a lot of studies that have shown that prayer works and a lot of studies that show that it doesn’t. And both sides point to the studies that agree with what they expected. That’s not convincing evidence for an atheist.
I’m sure there would be better examples, but I’m just brainstorming here.
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AntiTheist
Guest
There is actually an organization called “The Foxhole Atheists,” and it consists of atheists who have served in the armed forces or who are currently serving. Your statement is incorrect.
Certainly, there are atheists who are atheists for all the wrong reasons – appeal to emotion, immature rebellion against tradition, etc. – but atheists who are serious about their position generally don’t use such ridiculous arguments as “a good go wouldn’t let evil happen.”
The best atheist argument is that there is absolutely zero evidence that any gods of any kind exist.
The diversity of life on this planet is not the result of “chance,” but rather the result of the well-understood process of natural selection, which is not random (involving, as it does, “selection” via environmental pressures).
And to address another poster, I have never met an atheist who thinks that he or she has “complete control” over life – there are all sorts of factors in our lives that we’re not in control of. But that’s not evidence that gods of any kind exist.
Another poster hit the nail on the head by saying that atheists could be convinced with repeatable, measurable evidence. Something that exists is something that manifests in a measurable way – if god exists but does not affect the universe in any measurable way, then god is indistinguishable from something that doesn’t exist.
Give us some evidence that can be repeated under laboratory conditions, and then we’ll talk.
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