Atheist friend said something that devastated me

[Cat_Herder]

Ummmm…did you actually read this article?
It’s about how the birth control pill

Which is used by many people who have extramarital relations to avoid responsibility (i.e. pregnancy) for same.

and excess estrogen can be linked to cancer.

Notice that the article discusses how trace amounts of estrogen in the environment due to the Pill may be causing cancer in innocent bystanders who drink other people’s birth control in the water supply. If the theory is correct, it is not hard to imagine what higher doses of the Pill, like that consumed by the user, could do.

It says nothing about having sex with someone you are not married to can make you sick. Did you mean to post a different article?

No. I just expected you to draw the conclusion.

 

[PeterJohn]

I agree with 1ke

 

[ChibiViolet]

ZoonCorp, it would be best to avoid talking about most moral issues with athiests (or agnostics for that matter.)

 

[cerad2]

oh really? You are as much of a god as Satan is.

Well thanks. Even gods like compliments.

Today, God still shows us His existence: Miracles still happen, and these are authenticated by actual dcoumented[sic] facts that cannot be explained by worldly means. Many prestigious witnesses attest to this as well.

Absolutely. And no one can prove miracles don’t exist. Especially mine.

Your above statements reak[sic] of of the stench of sulfuric lies.

Makes one a bit homesick eh?

 

[Castello]

This person is NOT your friend.

 

[edwest2]

Long story short, we were discussing the topic of “truth” via Skype. It all began with that I said that i think its wrong that so many people in my home country Sweden practices fornication. To that, he replied something like: “Who are YOU to judge people? Would you like it if I were to rule your life? Is fornication really that bad?”

To that, I answered something like: “Well, actually I’m no one to judge anyone. But if you were to know better about something, and you knew that your knowledge is the right one, it certainly would be better if you told me what is right and what is wrong. What if my view on fornication is the right one? There can not be ‘my’ truth and ‘your’ truth. If there would be multiple truths, they wouldn’t be true anymore. There can only be one single truth, regardless of what people think.”

That’s when the discussion started about what is true and what is not.

Then my atheist friend continued: “I could say that I am an the only true god, with the goal of making life hard for people. You wouldn’t be able to prove me wrong?”

I didn’t know what to say, so I said:

• “There is no evidence that it would be so.”
• “Then how will you prove me wrong?”
• “Is that even relevant? In that case, you have not done so well.”
• “Or have I? I may have driven you away from the true path, in a big practical joke against my creator.”
• “If you are someones creation, there are someone higher than you, which would mean that he had good intentions.”
  “Do you see how much I can go on to claim that I am the one true god, and make it impossible for you to prove that it is not so?”
• “It’s not impossible. It’s about what is rue and what is not. Some people may think that you are right, while other will know that you are wrong. Those who know that you are wrong therefore knows the truth.”
• “So the people who doesn’t believe in my divinity, despite the impossibility of proving me wrong, possesses the truth?”
• “Yes.”
• “You have just thought like an atheist!”
• “But do you know that you are right?”
• “Well, I am the true god, am I not? You can’t prove me wrong, yet you say that I am wrong.”

Now I really regret ever talking to him. I have always been 100% sure that my faith is the truth and that God exists. I still want to believe so, but after this discussion I feel unsure. What says that Catholicism is the truth and that God exists? How can we know for sure? I certainly need help with this so that I can return to God, fully believing in Him. It’s a strange feeling: One side of me tells me that I do indeed possess the truth, the other side tells me that I can’t be sure that I do.

I feel terrible for even thinking like this, I feel lost. I used to have a really strong faith, and I let an atheist persuade me because I’m not good at arguing.

I have heard this for a long time: Who are YOU to tell me (or anyone else) what to do?

Here is Pope Benedict talking about a functioning society and what is required:

"The Holy Father says:

" If we cannot have common values, common truths, sufficient communication on the essentials of human life–how to live, how to respond to the great challenges of human life–then true society becomes impossible."

If everybody tells you that you don’t know anything for certain then you get anarchy, with everyone going in their own direction. Pope Benedict again:

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]”

The Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. When you pray, who do you pray to? The Living God. The same Jesus Christ that died on the cross and rose to live forever. All of us, believer and unbeliever, will die and face the final judgement. This world will pass away Jesus tells us, but My words will not pass away.

The Catholic Church has preached the Gospel for over 2,000 years.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CEM5]

Having sex without being married makes you physically sick? You say this is medically proven somewhere?

When people have multiple partners over the span of their lifetime, yes, it does, and yes, it is medically proven. Fornication and adultery increase substantially the risk of contracting STD’s, and that includes incurable, and potentially life threatening diseases.

 

[CEM5]

Ahhhh. I see. Well, that would be an inaccurate conclusion, as you may have concluded by now.

A person could go their whole life “fornicating” and never use the pill. And many married people–non-fornicators, even Catholic ones–use the pill. So those ones would be sinning, but not fornicating.

But please–do let us know if you find an article or medical journal that actually reports that fornicating makes a person physically sick.

That would be front page news, for sure!
Even for the radical, left-wing, publications!

Check these out for starters:

mademan.com/mm/risks-having-multiple-sex-partners.html (This one especially is revealing).

cdc.gov/std/bv/stdfact-bacterial-vaginosis.htm

womens-health.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1999/1201/19

And for the psychologicial risks:

teen-aid.org/Abstinence_Education/psychological_argument_for_abstinence_and_commitment.htm

physiciansforlife.org/content/view/255/27/

 

[hazmat]

zooncorp, even the best of believers have doubts. your conflicting thoughts are natural and common. people all over the world are different; if we never doubted our beliefs, we would all be insisting to one another that we are right, without ever coming to any agreement.

 

[meltzerboy]

Why did his nonsensical statement devastate you?

He claims to be God, yet has not one attribute of God. If he is God it is up to him to prove his claim, not up to you to disprove it.

Jesus claimed to be God. He raised the dead, cured the blind, lame, possesed, and ill with a command, calmed a storm with a wave of his hand, transfigured before his Apostles, and rose from the dead. Let’s see your friend do any of those things.

However, Moses taught not to base divinity on miracles, even great ones, which Moses also performed. In fact, Moses’ body was never found according to the Bible. But I do agree with you that the OP friend’s argument is nonsensical.

 

[CEM5]

But again, this is incorrect. Fornication doesn’t mean many sex partners or adultery, as I’m sure you know. Those words mean something completely different.
Fornication means having sex with someone you are not married to.
A person can have sex with someone and never marry them, and that’s the only person they ever have sex with.

Yes, I am quite aware of the meaning of those words, and that is correct, however, most times people do not remain with their partner and will move on to the next person since there is no real commitment. (I am aware that in some infrequent cases, some people will remain as an unmarried couple – but statistics show a greater number do not remain in a union for life.). As well, there are very casual sexual “hook ups” today - i.e.: “Friends with benefits”, one-night-stands, and so on.

And here are some statistics regarding co-habitating as opposed to marrige.

marriage.about.com/cs/cohabitation/a/livingtogether.htm

 

[Cat_Herder]

Ohhh. You are talking about what fornication might lead to.That’s a whole other ballgame. That’s like saying one puff of a cigarette will cause lung cancer. Or one bite of a cookie will make you gain 20 pounds.

So I think we are in agreement, then, that there is no medical evidence that fornication in itself makes people physically sick? As per the original post claiming this?

((Also, a couple who has sex with each other before they get married and then get married…and never have any other sex partners…this is another example of fornicating and only having one sex partner, so zero chance of STD’s, etc.))

You are comparing one night of binge drinking with chronic alcoholism and saying that the one night isn’t dangerous. Feel free to watch the ten o clock news and correct yourself.

You’re also ignoring the fact that people lie. “This is my first time,” says your partner. Meanwhile the statistics say there is a significant chance that it is not, and if it isn’t, there is a risk of STD transmission. It is the equivelant of a hard drinker telling his passenger “I’m sober.”

 

[Tenofovir]

ZoonCorp, it would be best to avoid talking about most moral issues with athiests (or agnostics for that matter.)

Au contra-ire. It is precisely why you should discuss morality with your atheist buddies to see how vacuous atheism is.

 

[Tenofovir]

Ohhh. You are talking about what fornication might lead to.That’s a whole other ballgame. That’s like saying one puff of a cigarette will cause lung cancer. Or one bite of a cookie will make you gain 20 pounds.

This is irrelevant. No-one who says smoking causes cancer says one puff will kill you. No-one who says fornication is bad will say one sexual act will kill you, although if you catch HPV, HBV/HCV/HDV or HIV your risk of dying increases much more. It is the practice of fornication per se or out of marriage sex (including sex with non-spouse and premarital sex) which has led to the evolutionary emergence of HIV/HPV induced cancers/HBV/HSV/syphilis/etc./ectopic pregnancies which kill women/infertility/chronic pelvlic pain/chronic urethral strictures/and numerous secondary pathologies.

So I think we are in agreement, then, that there is no medical evidence that fornication in itself makes people physically sick? As per the original post claiming this?

Of course there is evidence. How do you account for HIV? How do you account for HPV cervical cancer which requires expensive screening programs/vaccines and from which hundreds of thousands of people die each year, yet from which Catholic nuns do not die? You see when you create a niche through behaviour you create a habitat for pathogens. If people can’t keep it in their pants until they get married, they can’t keep it in their pants for non-“partners” either.

((Also, a couple who has sex with each other before they get married and then get married…and never have any other sex partners…this is another example of fornicating and only having one sex partner, so zero chance of STD’s, etc.))

This is not the rule but the exception. Most people who practice premarital sex, do not do so with only one lifelong partner. Easy sex → tendency to have easy sex with others → cheapens sex → many partners either concurrently or serially. You become a vector for spread of disease and suffering. Cool eh?

You know very well what people think like. Sex is fun. The emotional stuff is fun too but it’s nowhere near as much fun as the sex. That drives people to more sex. And people get bored with their partners pretty quickly if sex is the ultimate goal. Men for example require variety to achieve full pleasure repeatedly. But we know where that leads. So obviously we can’t just let our passions lose can we? Or maybe some say we can.

 

[fred_conty]

Well if someone claims that they are god then the monkey is on their back to prove it.
Jesus proved it by raising himself back to life.

Just an important thought.

 

[CEM5]

Ohhh. You are talking about what fornication might lead to.That’s a whole other ballgame. That’s like saying one puff of a cigarette will cause lung cancer. Or one bite of a cookie will make you gain 20 pounds.

So I think we are in agreement, then, that there is no medical evidence that fornication in itself makes people physically sick? As per the original post claiming this?

((Also, a couple who has sex with each other before they get married and then get married…and never have any other sex partners…this is another example of fornicating and only having one sex partner, so zero chance of STD’s, etc.))

True. However, as I pointed out, and the studies indicate, it very rarely leads to having just one faithful partner for life. The opposite has been shown.

Let us not ignore the psychological aspects and how damaging that is as well. I had included those pertinent facts also.

Most important, is how harmful it is to the eternal soul, whether one believes this or not.

Closing one’s eyes to this truth does negate this fact. Just as an ostrich can stick its head in the sand to close its eyes to the reality around it, the truth of what exists around that ostrich still remains.

Those who deny the existence of God are like that.

 

[fix]

In the words of famous atheist, what is advanced without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Accordingly, your argument is without merit or relevance to the arguments for God’s existence.

Your ability to advance an argument without any evidence does not obligate me to consider it, anymore than I need give serious consideration to the ravings of any mentally disturbed person on a street corner. Accordingly, your assertion, or the maniac’s assertion, does not in any way diminish the arguments for the existence of God.

This is a common argument among young atheists on the Internet, by the way (google “I am god” + “you can’t prove I’m not!” and see how many hits you get.) I can only ascribe this to the decline in critical thinking skills taught to the young in the Internet age.

Well said.

 

[cerad2]

Well said.

Indeed. That’s why I generally chuckle when I hear Catholics loudly and proudly proclaim that they worship the one true god and that no one can prove other wise. This of course is known as “sophisticated theology”.

 

[fix]

Indeed. That’s why I generally chuckle when I hear Catholics loudly and proudly proclaim that they worship the one true god and that no one can prove other wise. This of course is known as “sophisticated theology”.

There are proofs for the existence of God. I have seen no proof that the person in the OP is a god?

 

[Deus_lo_vult]

Long story short, we were discussing the topic of “truth” via Skype. It all began with that I said that i think its wrong that so many people in my home country Sweden practices fornication. To that, he replied something like: “Who are YOU to judge people? Would you like it if I were to rule your life? Is fornication really that bad?”

To that, I answered something like: “Well, actually I’m no one to judge anyone. But if you were to know better about something, and you knew that your knowledge is the right one, it certainly would be better if you told me what is right and what is wrong. What if my view on fornication is the right one? There can not be ‘my’ truth and ‘your’ truth. If there would be multiple truths, they wouldn’t be true anymore. There can only be one single truth, regardless of what people think.”

That’s when the discussion started about what is true and what is not.

Then my atheist friend continued: “I could say that I am an the only true god, with the goal of making life hard for people. You wouldn’t be able to prove me wrong?”

I didn’t know what to say, so I said:

• “There is no evidence that it would be so.”
• “Then how will you prove me wrong?”
• “Is that even relevant? In that case, you have not done so well.”
• “Or have I? I may have driven you away from the true path, in a big practical joke against my creator.”
• “If you are someones creation, there are someone higher than you, which would mean that he had good intentions.”
  “Do you see how much I can go on to claim that I am the one true god, and make it impossible for you to prove that it is not so?”
• “It’s not impossible. It’s about what is rue and what is not. Some people may think that you are right, while other will know that you are wrong. Those who know that you are wrong therefore knows the truth.”
• “So the people who doesn’t believe in my divinity, despite the impossibility of proving me wrong, possesses the truth?”
• “Yes.”
• “You have just thought like an atheist!”
• “But do you know that you are right?”
• “Well, I am the true god, am I not? You can’t prove me wrong, yet you say that I am wrong.”

Now I really regret ever talking to him. I have always been 100% sure that my faith is the truth and that God exists. I still want to believe so, but after this discussion I feel unsure. What says that Catholicism is the truth and that God exists? How can we know for sure? I certainly need help with this so that I can return to God, fully believing in Him. It’s a strange feeling: One side of me tells me that I do indeed possess the truth, the other side tells me that I can’t be sure that I do.

I feel terrible for even thinking like this, I feel lost. I used to have a really strong faith, and I let an atheist persuade me because I’m not good at arguing.

Your friend’s criteria for knowing and defining aspects of the world external to oneself are impossibly strict. I cannot prove that your friend is human. That doesn’t mean he is not human.

I can’t prove that my nails are made of collagen…the fact that I am not equipped with the scientific apparatus (tools etc) to do so doesn’t mean that my nails aren’t in fact, made of collagen.

I also can’t prove that men walked on the moon…but I know they did because I’m REASONABLE.

I can’t even prove whether the world I am experiencing now as I type this message is in fact, real. But I know it is because man cannot live on proof alone…all of our lives are predicated on certain assumptions, without which life, as humans know it, isn’t possible.

His argument assumes that the world is not knowable without proof in every regard. Therefore there can be no scientific pursuits, or frankly, any human knowledge at all.