Atheistic Meme re: Good Friday--Your Thoughts?

[KnowtheSilence]

I simply get overjoyed when secular humanists acknowledge the existence of objective morality.

It’s a tacit acknowledgement of the existence of an Objective Good.

Oh. Congratulations. There are more of us than you think.

 

[PRmerger]

“Whether theistic systems of ethics are remotely logical, reasonable, consistent, compelling, or reflective of reality remains to be seen without delving into the nuances of each of those systems individually. But the point is not whether or not you or I could invent an “ethical system.” Of course we could. The point is whether or not you or I would have a rational, theistic basis for claiming that all others ought to likewise abide by that “ethical system” as if it were objective truth.”

Is that a statement of faith to you? Or did you think that SimpleRosarian’s post was a statement of faith as well (if so, fair enough).

Why don’t you just provide apologia for your statements?

Right now what you’re doing is the equivalent of a Catholic saying, “Because the Pope said so.” That’s not a very compelling argument for Catholics to make regarding a particular truth.

And it’s not a very compelling argument for secular humanists to make either.

You made a statement, now back it up!

 

[PRmerger]

Oh. Congratulations. There are more of us than you think.

Now I’m just helping you connect the dots.

You simply can’t be a secular humanist who acknowledges objective morality, and remain a secular humanist.

It’s kind of like saying, “I don’t believe that cows are mammals, but I do acknowledge that all female mammals can produce milk”.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

Why don’t you just provide apologia for your statements?

Right now what you’re doing is the equivalent of a Catholic saying, “Because the Pope said so.” That’s not a very compelling argument for Catholics to make regarding a particular truth.

And it’s not a very compelling argument for secular humanists to make either.

You made a statement, now back it up!

I don’t think I’ve done any less to defend my assertions than you have yours.

ETA: Which is to say, not at all. I can acknowledge that. But the first move was yours; I’m responding in kind.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

Now I’m just helping you connect the dots.

You simply can’t be a secular humanist who acknowledges objective morality, and remain a secular humanist.

It’s kind of like saying, “I don’t believe that cows are mammals, but I do acknowledge that all female mammals can produce milk”.

So you say. Why do you think that?

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t think I’ve done any less to defend my assertions than you have yours.

ETA: Which is to say, not at all. I can acknowledge that. But the first move was yours; I’m responding in kind.

Actually, still waiting for your responses to my questions, KtS.

Can you please address this earlier post?

Well, let’s explore this.

You believe, let’s say, that honor killings are wrong.

How do you address this with someone who believes it’s right to kill your daughter for having the audacity of being raped, without appealing to objective morality?

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t think I’ve done any less to defend my assertions than you have yours.

ETA: Which is to say, not at all. I can acknowledge that. But the first move was yours; I’m responding in kind.

Fair enough.

Please explain how you appeal to objective morality without the existence of an Objective Good.

 

[Estevao]

Memes are supposed to be funny.

 

[PRmerger]

Memes are supposed to be funny.

Yes. And to also make a point.

It’s not just gratuitous funniness that’s being proposed here.

 

[pensmama87]

When I see memes like that, I mostly assume the person knows very little about the development of the English language. “Good” could also mean “holy” (“good” and “God” being similar words is not at all a coincidence.)

Even if “good” has mostly dropped the religious connotation by now, it would make a lot of sense to call it Holy Friday.

 

[Padres1969]

…and your last day on earth is your LAST day for all eternity.

I have a relative who believes that wholeheartedly. He’s probably the most anti-religious person I know. And it’s why he extorts people to live their life for the now.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

Fair enough.

Please explain how you appeal to objective morality without the existence of an Objective Good.

I don’t.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

My take: memes are per se stupid. Trying to have an argument via pithy two sentence quips is dumb.

 

[Wesrock]

So what is your rationale when telling someone of a different religion or god that their position is immoral?

(Lemme me guess: the god you follow is the correct god! And all the others are, as our eloquent president might say, “fake news! Sad!”)

There are some theists who have a “divine command” theory of morality, but I don’t. If I was to tell another person of a different faith that their behavior was immoral, I’d argue it based on my understanding of what a human being is and what his ends are. That there is an objective reality to be observed with objective value content. Now, it is perfectly acceptable to say that any person’s knowledge of the objective nature of man can be incomplete and imperfect, and this can lead to disagreements. It is impossible for beings like us to understand a thing in itself perfectly. But that doesn’t mean all such knowledge is moot, or that we can’t know real things about the nature of man from which to make such evaluations about what is good for him as an individual and as a species.

Now, the issue is that, to the theist, there is objective value content to the objectively existing “essence” of man (or a man), perhaps on the nature that existence is itself convertible with “the good”. The atheist has no objective grounding for any value content pulled from the same analysis, though. Even if they are not reductionists, there is no objective good. It could be said that X causes Y to live longer or healthier (which only makes sense if you’re not a reductionist), but any value statement applied to that in atheism is ultimately subjective.

 

[Padres1969]

1–Every Friday can indeed be good for atheists, because their idea of good differs from yours and does not follow the doctrine you follow.

2–Many atheists indeed have satisfactory answers to their kids’ queries about death. They may not be satisfactory to you, but they are to many.

3–He had to die that day to make the “greatest story ever told” work.
Of course, he could have died on a Tuesday instead. But then…all Tuesdays can be good for atheists, too!

.

You beat me to it on the first point. Every Friday is good for most people irrespective of your religious beliefs… it means the weekend is upon us!

 

[Thom18]

1–Every Friday can indeed be good for atheists, because their idea of good differs from yours and does not follow the doctrine you follow.

Likewise, every Friday could be bad. Not every atheist works 9-5 M-F. For some, Friday is the end of their “weekend”. Maybe this is only an inconvenience, but there are obviously worse things that can happen on a Friday.

2–Many atheists indeed have satisfactory answers to their kids’ queries about death. They may not be satisfactory to you, but they are to many.

And just like a theist’s children, an atheist’s children may also not be satisfied with the answer they’re given. Of course, whether we like the answer or not doesn’t change whether it’s right or wrong.

3–He had to die that day to make the “greatest story ever told” work.
Of course, he could have died on a Tuesday instead. But then…all Tuesdays can be good for atheists, too!

Tuesdays can be bad for atheists, too. Of course, what “good” actually means and what an individual believes are “good” is subjective.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t.

Again, as I said, this is cause for rejoicing.

You believe that there exists a morality that is outside of yourself.

That means there’s a Moral Authority that’s not yourself.

What could that mean, except…

wait for it…

wait for it…

God.

 

[PRmerger]

Of course, what “good” actually means and what an individual believes are “good” is subjective.

When an atheist uses the word “good” it’s indeed puzzling…

unless, of course, he is, like KnowtheSilence, a tacit believer in Objective Good.

(But then, that makes him, NOT an atheist.)

 

[PRmerger]

My take: memes are per se stupid. Trying to have an argument via pithy two sentence quips is dumb.

They can be a good catalyst for great discussions.

 

[TK421]

I’m not sure if it’s worth discussing because the meme is meant to be witty, proud, and provocative, not to really convey a point.

I’m assuming the statement “every Friday is good” is meant to be a nod to the fact that the restaurant/tavern/social club has good food and good drinks. "It’s Friday, woo hoo, we don’t have to go to work tomorrow, hurray, etcetera, etcetera. " And then “nobody had to die for it” is a nod that whoever wrote it is unable to find any beauty in sacrifice. i.e. a philosophy of “eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.”