Atheistic thoughts

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Balaco

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I’ve been questioning how to improve in my Roman Catholic faith lately…but this morning I came to the realization that I never really questioned my faith itself. I was lightly raised Catholic and recently took it upon myself to grow closer to God. Now, for probably the first time in my life, I feel like I’m genuinely considering atheism as a possibility.

Atheists do not accept the possibility of a supernatural being, and restrict themselves to our “natural” human thinking. Previously I thought that atheists are simply conditioned by society to the point where they are unable to “rationally” believe in a supernatural being…God doesn’t allow us universally undeniable proof of his existence as a test of faith. Now, though, I feel like it’s impossible to tell whether that mindset is correct, or whether atheists are correct in their focusing on our natural human mindsets.

I do feel like I’ve felt something while praying throughout the past. The other night, for example, I was planning on praying for about fifteen minutes, but felt oddly calm and ended up taking about an hour. Now I feel like that could have just been because I was comfortable, and my mind was “making things up” as I was more convinced in my faith.

I know this isn’t something I’m likely going to overcome overnight. Asking here is obviously going to get me answers supporting Catholicism. Asking atheists is going to get me answers supporting atheism. Each side is going to try to denounce the other’s claims, passionately believing in their own correctness. But I take it that it’s not considered sin to be having these atheistic thoughts? I feel extremely confused now, though I plan on continuing to pray as I sort this out. I want to say I’m going to continue to love God with all my actions, but now I don’t know if I can since I’m genuinely considering the possibility of leaving the faith. I also don’t know if I should be viewing this objectively or if I should be leaning towards Catholicism.

I am a high school student trying to balance out the increase in my schoolwork, trying to spend more time with my family, trying to improve my social life, trying to balance out my alone time, and now trying to be confident in my faith. As long as I am legitimately putting a general effort into understanding my faith, is it acceptable to use some free time with my friends or myself for just my leisure – or should I be spending as much time directly researching this?
 
You are asking about the most important thing in life. It ought to be a major concern and take some serious time and effort. However, that does not mean it should become a neurosis… That would in fact become counterproductive.

It is not wrong to ask questions or explore your difficulties, but use the faith which you possess at the moment to “cover” that journey - meaning, trust that what you have been taught is good and true, that God does not tell lies, and that He rewards those who seek Him; and that if it dawns on you one day that you are wrong, then you will change your mind at that point, and at that point only.

As for “answers,” well, you found the right forum. There are plenty of resources here for you. We can trust the reason to distinguish the true from the false, if we are serious and discerning about things. Everyone has a bias, but at the end of the day we must choose what we think is right based on our best judgment.

To give you a direction down the right path, you might reconsider the thought that there are no “proofs” for God’s existence but only “probable arguments.” This is not the case. Poke around and see what you can find.

👍
 
Lifelong cradle Catholic here.

The saddest funeral I ever attended
was one where an atheistic father had lost his son.
I have never seen anyone crying like that ever …
he had no hope.

In life, everyone will eventually have problems …
far easier to go through those problems
with God at your side.

And yeah, as a Prayer Warrior here at CAF …
you know Whose side I’m on …

:blessyou:
 
Balaco said:
I’ve been questioning how to improve in my Roman Catholic faith lately…but this morning I came to the realization that I never really questioned my faith itself. I was lightly raised Catholic and recently took it upon myself to grow closer to God. Now, for probably the first time in my life, I feel like I’m genuinely considering atheism as a possibility.

Atheists do not accept the possibility of a supernatural being, and restrict themselves to our “natural” human thinking. Previously I thought that atheists are simply conditioned by society to the point where they are unable to “rationally” believe in a supernatural being…God doesn’t allow us universally undeniable proof of his existence as a test of faith. Now, though, I feel like it’s impossible to tell whether that mindset is correct, or whether atheists are correct in their focusing on our natural human mindsets.

I do feel like I’ve felt something while praying throughout the past. The other night, for example, I was planning on praying for about fifteen minutes, but felt oddly calm and ended up taking about an hour. Now I feel like that could have just been because I was comfortable, and my mind was “making things up” as I was more convinced in my faith.

I know this isn’t something I’m likely going to overcome overnight. Asking here is obviously going to get me answers supporting Catholicism. Asking atheists is going to get me answers supporting atheism. Each side is going to try to denounce the other’s claims, passionately believing in their own correctness. But I take it that it’s not considered sin to be having these atheistic thoughts? I feel extremely confused now, though I plan on continuing to pray as I sort this out. I want to say I’m going to continue to love God with all my actions, but now I don’t know if I can since I’m genuinely considering the possibility of leaving the faith. I also don’t know if I should be viewing this objectively or if I should be leaning towards Catholicism.

I am a high school student trying to balance out the increase in my schoolwork, trying to spend more time with my family, trying to improve my social life, trying to balance out my alone time, and now trying to be confident in my faith. As long as I am legitimately putting a general effort into understanding my faith, is it acceptable to use some free time with my friends or myself for just my leisure – or should I be spending as much time directly researching this?
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Hi Balaco

It sounds like you’re at a crossroads right now and not sure of the way ahead. I’d want to say that anyone who says they have never had any doubts about their faith is probably lying, so I don’t think that you need to feel bad about having these thoughts.

It feels as though you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make a choice, and there are lots of things competing for your time. Nobody else can really give you advice on your spiritual path because that journey is unique to you, but I feel that it might help if you let go of some of the tension a little. Faith is less about struggling to find God and more about being open to him finding you. You said that you’ll continue to pray, and that sounds like the most important thing to do. You said that you were raised Catholic - are you practicing? A good priest or spiritual director can help you explore these issues without automatically defending Catholicism or just telling you to blindly believe.

Every blessing on your journey.
 
Kanade said:
It sounds like you’re at a crossroads right now and not sure of the way ahead. I’d want to say that anyone who says they have never had any doubts about their faith is probably lying, so I don’t think that you need to feel bad about having these thoughts.
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In fact, even Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who is now a saint … had doubts about her faith.

She kept on praying, and asked others to pray for her.

…
 
You should look up the doubts you have (catholic.com is helpful for apologetics), you can read about the lives of people who suffered from extreme temptations to doubt (like Mother Teresa, St Therese of Lisieux, St Alphonsus Liguori), praying the daily rosary, and learning about miracles of the church (more modern miracles are probably more convincing) these are all all counsels to help one against doubts of faith.

You said
I also don’t know if I should be viewing this objectively or if I should be leaning towards Catholicism.
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If you want to know if Catholicism is true or not, then just study what Catholicism has to say about itself. Catholic Answers Radio’s “Why are you an atheist” (look through different months in their calendar to see different atheism-related shows) is an actual dialogue with a Catholic and an atheist. This sort of goes with your desire for an “objective” resource (since both parties are present)

Besides all of this, ask for help from someone in real life who seems to be a devout person, perhaps your local priest.

Here’s a video that might also help what the Church has to say about God’s existence. The video can have a little humor, but the guy who made it is a holy person and the apologetics he uses is very good.
truefaith.tv/2013/04/28/the-truth-about-the-existence-of-god/

(This source might not help as much, since the Catechism isn’t apologetics against atheism)
You can also read the Catechism of the Catholic Church’s section on the existence of God:vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P9.HTM
 
Well besides the fact that atheism denies the first cause which is illogical there has to be a first cause, I find Pascal’s wager to be quite appropriate in this situation. Pascal reasoned that even if God did not exist it would still be better to live it as though God does exist because if you do that you’ll have a reward for how you live in the afterlife and if he doesn’t you don’t have anything to lose. I find a lot of convincing in the aspect of natural law . For insrance, why is it wrong to kill someone? Why is it wrong for me to take another human being’s life? There has to be a sense of morality to that I as a rational have that animals don’t have. I’m not trying to make light of your situation I’m trying to actually help you through it but think it through does it really makes sense that everything that exists and everything that ever has existed is just a random accident? I personally find St. Thomas Aquinas’s Arguments for the existence of God to be very good regardless of what some bloggers think
 
One thing you could do would be to see the videos, “God is Not Dead” and “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” before proceeding any further.

Praying for you.
 
Atheists claim they have no belief system, and no faith, however, they believe in many unproven theories, and the basis of their beliefs in how existence has come to be relies on faith as well, and it has far less answers than our Catholic faith, and is much harder to comprehend,
For example, how did existence come into being? Catholics believe God has always been, from eternity to eternity, but how do atheists explain that? Without a supernatural being there from eternity, there is nothingness, how does something come from nothing? And if somehow they have an explanation (which I have never heard, but just for the sake of this conversation let’s say they do) that explanation is entirely based on blind faith, because no one was there to witness it.
And then to top it off, the world and all its creation, the plants, animals, bugs, etc. etc., All form a perfect eco system, a perfect circle of life, and without going into too much detail so as to not make this too long, one only has to do a little bit of research of these things to see that it was all by Intelligent design, perfection on such a massive scale could not have been caused by just a random event…well I don’t wanna get into this too much, there’s another subject I’d rather address more.

From the things you said, I can see that you want to love God, you want to know Him, but you also want to have certainty…although I don’t believe that’s a good reason to consider atheism, however, many Catholics do find certainty in their faith, the reason many choose to convert to Catholicism is because they find more answers through it, we are not asked to believe without reason, God prefers us to believe without seeing(though there are many through time who have seen things that made them believe), but not without reason, and He does give us that, and plenty of it,
One thing to consider is consistency…mankind’s beliefs change with time and with what’s “popular” and with how we feel today, which may change tomorrow…the Catholic Church has always been consistent and unyielding in her teachings, even though throughout history there has been confusion among the people and even the clergy, but not by fault of the church, in times of confusion or heresy, the church officially would declare the truths of our faith(which were already known), so as to dismiss those errors… actually, that’s a bit of a complicated subject to get into, but you can learn all about those things by reading from a good church history book(www.tanbooks.com has some really good ones) I highly recommend doing that, especially since there are many lies and rumors and misunderstandings about our church history.

Sorry to be making this so long, but I want to touch on just one other subject.
The idea that you need to “feel” anything in order to know if God is there, or needing to feel something while praying, or trusting what you believe based on how it feels… feelings are a very weak and untrustworthy thing to base our faith off of, feelings change for reasons we can’t control, many things outside ourselves effect and influence and manipulate our feelings, and although they are there for a reason, that reason is not for guiding our faith.
So how does one know if they are doing the right thing? Or following the right path? That is what the Church is for, she is our teacher, you can learn what God wants from you, how He wants you to pray, to live your daily life, avoid sin, do good works, etc, just by looking at what the Church teaches, which you can read in good Catholic books, especially those written by saints, or other well known Catholic writers, or even just a good catechism, all of which you can find on that site I listed.
I know you feel as though your life is too busy right now, and you expressed concern that maybe you should be putting some things aside for the sake of giving more attention to spiritual reading and prayers…well, to be honest, that’s not all entirely a bad idea… of course there are certain necessities in our daily life that we have a responsibility towards, but there are also many things we choose to do that are not necessary…of course only you can decide what those things are, but remember this, the devil will try everything to convince you that spending time on yourself is more important than spending it on God, in fact, the devil would rather you think of anything at all so long as it’s not God…which even a devout Catholic can be fooled into, for example, Catholics who are scrupulous, they think constantly of their own sins and worry excessively if something is mortal or venial or if they consented or not…and in doing so, they seldom think of God…not to say it can be helped in every case, but you can be sure that the devil does encourage it.
There is so much more I’d like to say, but I don’t have time atm…if you would like to discuss anything, I’d be happy to talk or answer any questions whatsoever, so feel free to pm me, or just ask here…I’m sorry if I didn’t answer your concerns in a satisfactory way, but there was so much I wanted to say I didn’t know where to start 😛 but all the same, I’d love to help in any way I can.
Take care.
 
I’m so Glad you posted! I went through a similar search. one thing I would suggest is that you be open to the truth and God will lead you. Pray to the Holy Spirit for an open heart. There are some books that were helpful to me. The following books helped me; Miracles by C.S Lewis, The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis, Handbook of Catholic Apologetics’s by Peter Kreeft. Trent Horn also has a book out called Answering Atheism, I haven’t read it but I’m sure it’s good. In my search I discovered that Atheism is incomplete in its explanation of reality. I will pray for you.
God Bless you
 
Thanks for your support everyone. I would have never guessed even this morning that I would begin to doubt my faith. I actually planned on elaborating more here but I can’t find the words at the moment, will probably do so tomorrow.
 
You’re in high school? It’s pretty common for people to go through through a stage of questioning at that age, so know you’re in good company. Most religious people have been through it and their faith is stronger for it. If you haven’t talked to your parents about this and you’re pretty sure that they’re not going to freak out if you tell them you’re having doubts, I’d recommend keeping them in the loop; they’ve probably been through it, too, and they might have good advice for you (they know you better than anyone on here, after all). One of my biggest regrets from my own journey from Christianity to atheism was that I kept my family at arms length through all most all of it because I didn’t want to stress them out. Some of them knew I was having doubts, but I didn’t let them know the extent of it until I came out the other side as a convinced atheist. That outcome was the result of a gradual process over many years, but it seemed out-of-the-blue to them. It would have been better for everyone if they had been part of the journey (well, maybe except for my “angry atheist” phase; if you ever hit that point, try to keep a lid on that; if you’re mature, it’ll pass).

My number one peice of advice to you is this: be genuine, with yourself and with others, as you go through this process. If you have big questions, don’t settle for pat answers, from either side; pursue it until you find an answer that satisfies you. That may take a long time, and will require lots and lots of reading (and maybe a few college courses, if you choose to go to college), but it’s worth it. You’ll probably be pointed to popular-level books from the likes of Lee Strobes and Richard Dawkins, but don’t be afraid to go deeper than that. And on that not, don’t reject one side based on caricatures given by the other side; I’m seeing some uncharitable portrayals of atheism/atheists in this thread, and I’m sure the same thing will happen when you ask atheists for their (name removed by moderator)ut. Try to find the strongest critiques and the strongest supporting arguments you can.

And don’t sweat it. Spend time with your family and friends and all of that. Do your schoolwork. Go to church, keep praying. All that is a part of life, too, and an important part. Figuring out what to believe will probably take years, and you can’t put the rest of your life on hold until you figure it out. Even if all you have time for is to keep one book on apologeticcs, philosophy, science, whatever, on your shelf at a time and can only manage to read one chapter every week or so, it’ll be enough as long as you’re doing it thoughtfully and honestly.
 
Something that helped me come to peace with these problems is the simple humility to realize that there are thousands, indeed, millions of people must smarter, wiser, kinder, than I am who end up all sides of these basic foundational questions. And I say this as someone in the top .1% of IQ distribution. That only puts me at the one in a thousand level. Even if you’re one in a million brilliant, there are still plenty of thinkers throughout history much smarter than you are. And they come to more or less all different positions on these issues.

You can draw your own conclusions from that observation, but it helped me to be ok with realizing that so many seemingly contradictory ideas could be simultaneously appealing. I no longer beat myself up about not being able to solve the problem that the entire mass of human intellect hasn’t solved either.

And for what it’s worth, prayer is one of the best routes to humility.
 
I dislike very much the word “doubt” when it comes to our faith.

Moses doubted for only a second that water would come from a rock he touched with his staff, and he was not allowed to enter the promised land because of his doubt. Doubt is not good.

What is allowed is to remain faithful to the faith while at the same time looking for understanding of the faith. Why should doubt ever be allowed when the faith comes from God who is truth itself? Doubt is contrary to faith. On the other hand, searching for meaning in the faith and looking for insights is a part of growing in the faith.

There are ideas the faith presents to us when at first seem contradictory to reality. A person may not “get” answers to these seemingly contradictions for quite a while. And in the meantime, our faith life goes on. And then one day, the Holy Spirit shows us something to answer that apparent contradiction maybe years later.

There is always an answer to our questions about our faith, but that doesn’t mean we will have them answered on the spur of the moment. Our whole life is a search for answers to our faith. Even the questions about our faith change as we go thru stages of our life.

Patience is needed in our search, for over time the Holy Spirit will always guide us in the best possible way. So just be aware that answers don’t always come at will, and that God sees our faithfulness to him in our search which brings down his favor on us.

Keep in mind what St.Peter said, “The devil goes about seeking whom he may devour”, two of which were Adam and Eve who then doubted God.

St Padre Pio…
To doubt is the greatest insult to the Divinity.
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“We believe in God. This is a fundamental decision on our part. But again the question has to be asked: is this still possible today? Is it reasonable? From the Enlightenment on, science, at least in part, has applied itself to seeking an explanation of the world in which God would be unnecessary. And if this were so, he would also become unnecessary in our lives. But whenever the attempt seemed to be nearing success - inevitably it would become clear: something is missing from the equation! When God is subtracted, something doesn’t add up for man, the world, the whole universe. So we end up with two alternatives. What came first? Creative Reason, the Creator Spirit who makes all things and gives them growth, or Unreason, which, lacking any meaning, yet somehow brings forth a mathematically ordered cosmos, as well as man and his reason. The latter, however, would then be nothing more than a chance result of evolution and thus, in the end, equally meaningless. As Christians, we say: “I believe in God the Father, the Creator of heaven and earth” -I believe in the Creator Spirit. We believe that at the beginning of everything is the eternal Word, with Reason and not Unreason.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (12 Sept 2006 Homily in Regensburg)

“It is not science that redeems man: man is redeemed by love. This applies even in terms of this present world. When someone has the experience of a great love in his life, this is a moment of “redemption” which gives a new meaning to his life. But soon he will also realize that the love bestowed upon him cannot by itself resolve the question of his life. It is a love that remains fragile. It can be destroyed by death. The human being needs unconditional love. He needs the certainty which makes him say: “neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:38- 39).”…

“Day by day, man experiences many greater or lesser hopes, different in kind according to the different periods of his life. Sometimes one of these hopes may appear to be totally satisfying without any need for other hopes. Young people can have the hope of a great and fully satisfying love; the hope of a certain position in their profession, or of some success that will prove decisive for the rest of their lives. When these hopes are fulfilled, however, it becomes clear that they were not, in reality, the whole. It becomes evident that man has need of a hope that goes further. It becomes clear that only something infinite will suffice for him, something that will always be more than he can ever attain.”…

“…we need the greater and lesser hopes that keep us going day by day. But these are not enough without the great hope, which must surpass everything else. This great hope can only be God, who encompasses the whole of reality and who can bestow upon us what we, by ourselves, cannot attain. The fact that it comes to us as a gift is actually part of hope. God is the foundation of hope: not any god, but the God who has a human face and who has loved us to the end, each one of us and humanity in its entirety. His Kingdom is not an imaginary hereafter, situated in a future that will never arrive; his Kingdom is present wherever he is loved and wherever his love reaches us. His love alone gives us the possibility of soberly persevering day by day, without ceasing to be spurred on by hope, in a world which by its very nature is imperfect. His love is at the same time our guarantee of the existence of what we only vaguely sense and which nevertheless, in our deepest self, we await: a life that is “truly” life.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI Spe Salvi

w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/it/holy-father/benedetto-xvi.html
 
Temptation to atheistic thoughts - reject them - just as we would reject poison offered to us instead of food and drink.
Temptations against Faith can come…the best way to fight against such is more by flight then by fight. (such is the age old advice --same with the temptations against the virtue of chastity). (other temptations the way is “fight” - like opposing the temptation with the opposite virtue etc in an active way).

Most “temptations of thought” are are better to “ignore”…(see long post above)

And the great Catholic Philosopher Josef Pieper Ia great intellectual) noted sometimes one has to even to simply stand fast as a kind of martyr in silence holding fast to ones Faith…in the midst of temptations against faith…even in the the midst of ones own involuntary feelings or thoughts --that assail one like arrows…(not consenting).

or as St. Therese did… simply say or write “Credo” (I believe).

Or silently make the sign of the cross…(as ones profession).

Hold fast to Jesus of Nazareth

In him is true life!
 
As a fellow doubter, I guess all I can really say is to keep reading. And while i understand you want an objective view of Catholocism and atheism, I’d personally hold off on reading the atheist side until you feel confident enough in your faith to hold off from it.

For me, the things that keep me in faith that there is a God are tye origin of the universe and life.

The only explanation science has given for the Big Bang is that both matter and anti -matter were created at the same time in a cosmic 0 = -1 + 1 = universe. It’s not a satisfying answer to how you get something out of nothing nor does it address why more Big Bangs aren’t happening all the time.

And with life, I could build a human cell by cell and they would not live. They’d just be a hunk of cells, yet someone we, who are chemically the same as my theoretical hunk of cells, are alive. Why?

God answers those questions.

Now I don’t expect one post on the internet to convince you and it’s a journey and there are many other things where I know doubt is. Talking to others, researching miracles, and perseverance are good. And just having doubts isn’t sinful, it’s temptation and so long as you keep faith in spite of your doubts, I think you’ll be alright. (And if you had no faith, would you have been concerned about these doubts? I think not.)
 
Throughout today I’ve still been torn and thinking on this a lot. I tried to think about God and the various Catholic teachings, but the fact that I now feel like it’s possible that they’re false kind of negates them for me. I keep thinking about how the religion could have been inspired by untrue events, with its teachings as a form of discipline…and it’s becoming harder for me to accept its validity. It’s also hard to stay objective in this case, as I’m trying to determine whether or not God is real…I’m also not sure if I’m sinning through my doubts.

I understand it may help to maintain our faith to avoid atheist viewpoints, but I feel like I’d just be blindly following the faith if I just ignored these doubts.

I feel like I just need to keep researching, praying, and living my life to figure this out.
 
Balaco said:
Throughout today I’ve still been torn and thinking on this a lot. I tried to think about God and the various Catholic teachings, but the fact that I now feel like it’s possible that they’re false kind of negates them for me. I keep thinking about how the religion could have been inspired by untrue events, with its teachings as a form of discipline…and it’s becoming harder for me to accept its validity. It’s also hard to stay objective in this case, as I’m trying to determine whether or not God is real…I’m also not sure if I’m sinning through my doubts.

I understand it may help to maintain our faith to avoid atheist viewpoints, but I feel like I’d just be blindly following the faith if I just ignored these doubts.

I feel like I just need to keep researching, praying, and living my life to figure this out.
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Have you ever looked into the miracles of the church? Perhaps those would give you something to hold on to, for example, the incoruptable bodies of the saints, the miracle of the sun at Fatima, Our Lady of Lourdes…there are countless miracles in the church, but those are a few which have been(and are) witnessed by the public, believers and unbelievers, which no one has ever been able to explain away,

There is no need to rush into one religion or another, you need to be patient, if you’ve asked God to help you to know the truth, then give Him a chance and some time to answer that prayer,
If atheism is right(it’s not but just for the sake of conversation) and there is no God, then it doesn’t matter one bit what you do or what anyone does cause we’re all gunna die and go into nothingness and so who cares?
But if God does exist, then you are risking everything, eternity doesn’t end, you need to think about that, a million years from now, you’re still gunna exist, in one place or another, and then a million years later, it will still be going, not even half way there cause it’s not gunna end…I’m not trying to put any fear in you, just reality, because the reality is, this life is short, and if you decide to be an atheist, you can be sure that if you were wrong and God does exist, you’re not going to be able to enter heaven, but if you choose to be Catholic, even if you struggle with doubts, you atleast have a chance…I’m not saying it’s ok to be Catholic for the wrong reasons, because it’s not, I’m just saying be patient, give it a chance, keep learning your faith, make it about God and not about yourself, as I said in my previous post, don’t trust your feelings, go with what makes sense, and if something doesn’t make sense to you, ask questions, there’s not much you can ask that there’s no answer for, and don’t be worried about pestering people with questions, because first of all, I doubt anyone would feel pestered, and second, your soul is more important, so start sharing your doubts, because it’s not a matter of getting Catholic oriented answers from Catholics, or atheist oriented answers from atheists, it’s about what makes sense and seems logical and reasonable.

I’ll keep you in my prayers, take care.
 
I plan on looking into miracles and acts of God’s goodness, and I recognize that Heaven and Hell are said to be literally eternal. Thanks for your support.
 
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