Atheists and homosexuals going to heaven

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shikomu
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If you allow me to read between the lines here, if atheists and homosexuals get into heaven, then why am I putting in all this effort that the church requires of me?

As people of God, we have the ability to impact the world for good. To live the gospel in this world that is darkened. To bring grace into difficult situations. That is not a small thing.

And there is the judgement at the end of our lives. What foundation are you building on today? 1 Corinthians 3…
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
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With our understanding of the gospel, hopefully we won’t be the one who is saved even though as one escaping through flames! We have the knowledge to secure treasure in heaven that will be there shining, like gold and silver that flames cannot touch.
 
Why would you offer an anti-catholic website as a source for the Pope’s words? :roll_eyes:
 
The OP identifies as “non-religious,” so I’m not sure that is the reason why s/he asked the question.
 
“Am Redeemed dot com” “Bible Study” is an anti Catholic source, and those links are not permitted on this website.
Shikomu said:
“the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”, and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide."
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This is true and is the teaching of Holy Mother Church.
1ke said:
Please provide evidence of this decree. And exactly what it says.
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Agree. Cite your source from Catholic News Agency, Vatican News, etc.
 
MasterHaster said:
What is the point of personal opinion if not authoritative? It just causes confusion and division.
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What is causing confusion and division is people taking normal conversation or discussions about what the Church actually teaches and twisting it beyond recognition.
 
The Pope can decree all he wants he doesn’t decide who goes to heaven - God decides.
 
Remember that Jesus Himself shocked his listeners, the religious people of the day: “Prostitutes and tax collectors are getting into heaven before you!”
 
I don’t see any Pope reversing a statement that there is no limit on the mercy of God. That’s not an unorthodox thing to say. The Catechism even says that we should not despair of the fate of those who commit suicide. That seems to define a mortal sin as one’s last act, but God has ways to offer salutary repentance that are known to Him alone.
 
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MasterHaster said:
What is the point of personal opinion if not authoritative? It just causes confusion and division. On something substantial like salvation best to speak “from the chair” or not at all.
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So the Pope can no longer speak and express opinions as a private person? Surely every person, no matter how exalted their position, has that right.
 
Homosexuality is a form of concupiscence, and we all suffer from that in one way or another due to original sin. It does not exclude from salvation, but is a trial to be born faithfully. As the Roman Catechism says “When, with patient resignation, we bear all the trials of life, and, aided by the divine assistance, subject to the dominion of reason the rebellious desires of the heart, we ought to cherish an assured hope that if, with the Apostle we shall have fought a good fight, finished the course, and kept the faith, the Lord, the just judge, will render to us on that day a crown of justice which is laid up for us.”

With regards to those who persevere to the end in any mortal sin–such as deliberate same-sex acts–such a person could not be saved. Further, as the CCC states “no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man.” (CCC 1860)

Someone who perseveres to the end in atheism cannot be saved. As the Scriptures says Heb. 16:6 “And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” Since God can be known from His creatures, there is no excuse for atheism (see Rom. 1:20) For this reason, the CCC declares:
161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43
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Does this mean someone who is an atheist now is definitively doomed? Of course not. As the CCC says further “in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him” (848).

As Pope Francis himself put it in his first encyclical, Lumen Fidei:
To the extent that they are sincerely open to love and set out with whatever light they can find, they are already, even without knowing it, on the path leading to faith…Anyone who sets off on the path of doing good to others is already drawing near to God, is already sustained by his help, for it is characteristic of the divine light to brighten our eyes whenever we walk towards the fullness of love.
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Every single human being can be saved by persevering to the end in faith and charity with the help God provides all. No one is excluded from this possibility.
 
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MasterHaster said:
Sure he has that right, but what are we to make of his “opinions”?
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Well, they are not mere opinions, like yours or mine.

I think it is generally safe to assume that the Pope believes that the “comments” he makes are consistent with the teaching of the Church. The fact that they are not pronounced ex cathedra does not mean they are meaningless - many of them are clearly made in the context of teaching, or explaining the faith. So the Pope clearly believes that his statements, for example, that atheists can go to heaven are consistent with Church teaching. I think he is right about that, but if I didn’t I would have to take a hard look, because obviously the Pope is more authoritative on Church teaching than I am.
 
This says Jesus and Mary were unable to sin? Certainly they were sinless but weren’t they still able to sin when tempted, they simply chose not to? Otherwise what did they overcome if they had no other choice? Christ had a choice and Mary did too (?)
 
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