Atheists - I am going to try something

[Hellisreal]

Is there any need for the more-difficult sort of apologetics, where your friendship and you desire to understand others are concerned? If your god is omniscient, and loving, I’d say your in good hands. I have no such divine assurance, but I still know trust and peace – and I hope that helps as well.

Whoops, that’s actually me, Nepenthe posting, but same difference, as we say in the Midwest!

I think I just had a bad last few days. I planted 3 trees and it was a fiasco.

Usually I can come up with one of my gizzillon bookmarks on this stuff.

but, you know what? I dont know why I do have the gizzillion bookmarks for just in case someone asks kind of thing.

I take a lot of my faith as second skin, I dont need the “Papal document number 55555 says” Read it at some point but-that is not going to “cinch” it up for me anyway

Or the bible says in chapter and verse here and here- no dice again

Or early father blah blah says blah

Its good to have it and good to know “the rules” but its gotta be something that you see as a harmony, like a song, (to me anyway) it just is to me.

if I were a convert it would be different I guess.

As I get older, and watch my child grow up, (just enrolled in pre school)
I want to get off my closed off world and see more of the big picture around me, what my child will see in others and in this world we all share together, I want to be more loving and accepting and give that as a gift to my child.

 

[Nepenthe]

You inspire me, and I feel free to say, us.

Mirdath had to go through the terror of losing faith, or at least the approval of those who had it to begin with. I on the other hand, had no idea when I was very young, that people would be cruel to others who believed or thought about the world other thanI did, or that they would think their opinions or my own were so terribly important, even when it made no difference to our lives here and now, and was shocked by it. Not just about religion, but about cultures, religions, sexes and orientations, skin colors, music preferences, diets…oh, the whole spectrum of humanity. Most of those things seem to me what a theist might call ‘idolatry’ or just plain missing of the mark, if you’ll take these terms from such as myself

To me, love of humanity is that ‘second skin’ you speak of, though it runs far deeper, along with curiosity. I feel I should be honest with you, and this forum, since I have been a participant for some time now. I hope you will forgive my fears and misgivings.

 

[Church_Militant]

If your faith gives you spiritual health and peace, then you should go. **I myself have stopped going to church because I need to reconsider my faith after I found I deeply disagreed with something the Pope said a Catholic must believe (basically all non-Catholic religions are gravely deficient in terms of salvation; I believe all religions are paths to God). **

I could no longer go to the church with a good conscience, and when that happens, you have to leave until it is resolved. I believe it is the same with your friend; she has to be given time to resolve the problems in her conscience, otherwise she is better off in my view staying outside of the church.Hey Greg,
I think that even the pope might agree with you that all religions are paths to God, however, to pursue your own analogy, some paths are more efficiently traveled and therefore that makes others “gravely deficient” in getting to their ultimate goal. The difference could be likened to a level cleared path versus one that perhaps is obscured often by confusing branchings off and errant dead ends.

In religious terms, we sum that up by saying that the Catholic faith has “the fullness of truth”, and again, in terms of your difficulty, this means that those faiths without the Eucharist, Reconciliation, Baptismal regeneration, and essentially all the truths held by our most holy faith would indeed be gravely deficient as a path towards salvation. I found this to be the case in my own journey of faith. Read about it here.

This may require some fairly intense study on your part to actually see these deficiencies, and I encourage you to return to the active practice of your Catholic faith, even if you abstain from communion out of conscience until your issues are resolved.
(I applaud that BTW, since it’s deeply honest.)

If you would like to get into a free study of the faith, I highly recommend The Catholic Home Study Service courses. I have completed them all except for their newest one (“We Pray…”) and you cannot go wrong with them.

If you would like to discuss this privately, please feel free to PM or e-mail through the forums here and I’ll be glad to share my experiences with you.

Know also that I will be praying for you from now on, that the Holy Spirit will guide your heart in truth.

The peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[Hellisreal]

You inspire me, and I feel free to say, us.

Mirdath had to go through the terror of losing faith, or at least the approval of those who had it to begin with. I on the other hand, had no idea when I was very young, that people would be cruel to others who believed or thought about the world other than I did, even when it made no difference to our lives here and now, and was shocked by it. Not just about religion, but about cultures, religions, sexes and orientations, skin colors, music preferences, diets…oh, the whole spectrum of humanity. Most of those things seem to me what a theist might call ‘idolatry’ or just plain missing of the mark, if you’ll take these terms from such as myself

To me, love of humanity is that ‘second skin’ you speak of, though it runs far deeper, along with curiosity. I feel I should be honest with you, and this forum, since I have been a participant for some time now. I hope you will forgive my fears and misgivings.

Buddy list! Mirdath too!

 

[Hellisreal]

THANK YOU BROTHER!
I knew you would come!

Hey Greg,
I think that even the pope might agree with you that all religions are paths to God, however, to pursue your own analogy, some paths are more efficiently traveled and therefore that makes others “gravely deficient” in getting to their ultimate goal. The difference could be likened to a level cleared path versus one that perhaps is obscured often by confusing branchings off and errant dead ends.

In religious terms, we sum that up by saying that the Catholic faith has “the fullness of truth”, and again, in terms of your difficulty, this means that those faiths without the Eucharist, Reconciliation, Baptismal regeneration, and essentially all the truths held by our most holy faith would indeed be gravely deficient as a path towards salvation. I found this to be the case in my own journey of faith. Read about it here.

This may require some fairly intense study on your part to actually see these deficiencies, and I encourage you to return to the active practice of your Catholic faith, even if you abstain from communion out of conscience until your issues are resolved.
(I applaud that BTW, since it’s deeply honest.)

If you would like to get into a free study of the faith, I highly recommend The Catholic Home Study Service courses. I have completed them all except for their newest one (“We Pray…”) and you cannot go wrong with them.

If you would like to discuss this privately, please feel free to PM or e-mail through the forums here and I’ll be glad to share my experiences with you.

Know also that I will be praying for you from now on, that the Holy Spirit will guide your heart in truth.

The peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[Hellisreal]

You inspire me, and I feel free to say, us.

Mirdath had to go through the terror of losing faith, or at least the approval of those who had it to begin with. I on the other hand, had no idea when I was very young, that people would be cruel to others who believed or thought about the world other thanI did, or that they would think their opinions or my own were so terribly important, even when it made no difference to our lives here and now, and was shocked by it. Not just about religion, but about cultures, religions, sexes and orientations, skin colors, music preferences, diets…oh, the whole spectrum of humanity. Most of those things seem to me what a theist might call ‘idolatry’ or just plain missing of the mark, if you’ll take these terms from such as myself

To me, love of humanity is that ‘second skin’ you speak of, though it runs far deeper, along with curiosity. I feel I should be honest with you, and this forum, since I have been a participant for some time now. I hope you will forgive my fears and misgivings.

I forgot to say, I hope you both will be around for me because, well I hope I wont, but I may get grief for my new outlook on life here if you know what I mean.

Thank you for sharing this story, its personal and painful. I hope and pray I can spare my child from this kind of ignorance that hurts others.

 

[Nepenthe]

Yes, we will be around for you, as best we can be, what with the internets and stuff!

And I will say with all my heart – my parents got many things horribly wrong (whole frightening topic there) but I think they got that ‘ignorance’ right. I remained truly innocent of human bigotries and hatreds until I was an adolescent, and for that I am so very grateful. That innocence has been a guiding force and a wild, true freedom in my life such that I wonder how many have known it!

If you raise your children so, they will suffer in the short term, for being ‘different,’ yes, and possibly suffer greatly…but aren’t we all different? The long-term benefits of gentleness and willing friendship, especially since they will have a good home, far outstrip the temporary and temporal ones, perhaps, in some ways? I cannot say – I would not wish persecution on your children, but I wouldn’t wish easy acceptance on them either.

 

[Hellisreal]

Yes, we will be around for you, as best we can be, what with the internets and stuff!

And I will say with all my heart – my parents got many things horribly wrong (whole frightening topic there) but I think they got that ‘ignorance’ right. I remained truly innocent of human bigotries and hatreds until I was an adolescent, and for that I am so very grateful. That innocence has been a guiding force and a wild, true freedom in my life such that I wonder how many have known it!

If you raise your children so, they will suffer in the short term, for being ‘different,’ yes, and possibly suffer greatly…but aren’t we all different? The long-term benefits of gentleness and willing friendship, especially since they will have a good home, far outstrip the temporary and temporal ones, perhaps, in some ways? I cannot say – I would not wish persecution on your children, but I wouldn’t wish easy acceptance on them either.

Good points. I think my kid can take it. Today was a shot in the arm literally. Not a wince. LOL.

But, my child also is the first one to go up to a bunch of kids never known before and jump in, like nothing. (I never did that!)

I am really glad this person came into my life at this point. I know it has made me re adjust my zoom level.

I think I understand what you are saying, and I think you brought out another good point for me to sleep on tonight.

I am not quick on the uptake, so I need to toss this around and think.

Good night and Good night to Mirdath

and all on this thread!

Its been really an eye opener for me.