Atheists More Irrational than Religious in U.S.A.

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rcscwc said:
It has no philosophy of its own. First Plato was borrowed then Aristotle was tried.
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I mean the philosophies that Jesus teaches, like non-violence, love your enemy, non materialism, all come from buddhism. Heaven and hell seem to be based on many philosophies from buddhism, hinduism, and some paganism about plains of consciousness and karma, except Christians seem to interperet them slightly differently. What I find interesting also is how the beliefs (starting back with the old testament) changed so much always adopting what beliefs were popular at the time, yet contradicting itself in the process.

I just don’t get why it can be considered as the “true religion” when it’s just a mixture of ideas from other religions dumbed down. And looking at the way it’s been used for most of it’s existence as a tool for control, it just seems like a big scam.
 
Hobble said:
Is christianity even it’s own religion? It seems like all of the philosophies from it come from older religions.
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It’s a religion perhaps (in good reasonable likelihood) borrowed in part from older religions and philosophies.
 
Hobble said:
I mean the philosophies that Jesus teaches, like non-violence, love your enemy, non materialism, all come from buddhism. Heaven and hell seem to be based on many philosophies from buddhism, hinduism, and some paganism about plains of consciousness and karma, except Christians seem to interperet them slightly differently. What I find interesting also is how the beliefs (starting back with the old testament) changed so much always adopting what beliefs were popular at the time, yet contradicting itself in the process.

I just don’t get why it can be considered as the “true religion” when it’s just a mixture of ideas from other religions dumbed down. And looking at the way it’s been used for most of it’s existence as a tool for control, it just seems like a big scam.
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This is probably one of the sillier comments I’ve heard on CAF, are you telling me that Christianity suffered more than 300 years of persecution (from its inception) because it was attempting to adopt beliefs that were popular at the time, like for example, the eucharist which led to accusations of cannabalism from the Romans of the time? I mean honestly, if Christianity was similiar to everything else before it, it would have hardly survived the persecutions of Emperors (and one as to wonder why it was perceived as such a threat if it was just a compilation of other belief systems) as no one would die for something that was similar to something else that could replace it? Christianity was and is unique because Jesus is like no other historical figure past, present, and/or future.

Furthermore, because we’re dealing with historical figures, Jesus is not a myth, he was a 1st century Jew living in Palestine, wherein he was killed by crucifixion under the reign of Tiberius by decree of Pontius Pilate, and according to those who knew him for many years, resurrected from the dead (these apostles were so strenghtened by what they witnessed that they endured much to promulgate the truth of what they saw). He according to his followers many of whom were killed declaring this, was the Son of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity; many have come to believe this because the writers of the NT reveal a God of such loving mercy and sacrifice unparalleled by any other faith and/or religion (it is not humanly possible to invent such a person as Jesus, who is truly love incarnate).

Moreover, the prophecies of the Messiah littered throughout the OT are fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ, and many of the sacred traditions of the OT are reflected in the sacraments and traditions of the Catholic Church, there are many parallels which connect Judaism and Catholicism. Many Hebrew Catholics can attest to this. God bless.
 
Hobble said:
I mean the philosophies that Jesus teaches, like non-violence, love your enemy, non materialism, all come from buddhism. Heaven and hell seem to be based on many philosophies from buddhism, hinduism, and some paganism about plains of consciousness and karma, except Christians seem to interperet them slightly differently. What I find interesting also is how the beliefs (starting back with the old testament) changed so much always adopting what beliefs were popular at the time, yet contradicting itself in the process.

I just don’t get why it can be considered as the “true religion” when it’s just a mixture of ideas from other religions dumbed down. And looking at the way it’s been used for most of it’s existence as a tool for control, it just seems like a big scam.
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First of all Hobble some time back ago you posted that the ancient Egyptians were way ahead of modern science in that they had already found out about string theory and a whole bunch of other discoveries you postulated. Even Yankee Doodle asked you for support for these laughable points and you provided NOTHING. I guess you’re up there with Kurt von Daniken and Chariots of the gods.

Do you understand that Christians, unlike the Eastern religions, believe in a personal God, redemptive suffering and that we are not reincarnated after death. Do you at all understand this? Buddhism doesn’t preach heaven and hell but Nirvana. Do you understand this? Do you understand that Christians do not believe in karma, that there is some sort of cosmic rule which holds that if you act iniquitously in life, in your next life you may come back as an ant, a monkey, etc. Christians believe humans are made in God’s image, and not animals. Again, do you understand this? Do you understand that in Buddhism there is no sin?

And please provide an academic link to your theory that the ancient Egyptians discovered string theory. :rolleyes:
 
rcscwc said:
It has no philosophy of its own. First Plato was borrowed then Aristotle was tried.
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I have some works of Plato and Aristotle. Can you please point out to me where either of these Greeks spoke of the Incarnation, the Resurrection, Redemptive Suffering, the Eucharist?
 
KyivAndrew said:
I have some works of Plato and Aristotle. Can you please point out to me where either of these Greeks spoke of the Incarnation, the Resurrection, Redemptive Suffering, the Eucharist?
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I think some posters here make such a big to do about some insignificant similarities between Christianity and other religions/philosophies that they overlook the huge discrepancies existing between our theology and theirs (not to mention the actual historical events that solidify our Christian beliefs).
 
josie_L said:
What do you think of the caste system inherent in Hinduism, and what is India doing about the tens of millions of “untouchables” who are poor and discriminated against?
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Hey josie, you asked this of the Hindu poster rcscwc and I would be interested in hearing his response in justifying the millions upon millions of dalits and their existence in Hindu India. Christian Amanpour once did a documentary on their sorry plight, and one female of the Hindu upper caste averred that for her to marry an untouchable would be like marrying an animal. :mad:

Recently in Indian politics, members of the upper castes decided for a day to sleep in the homes of untouchables as a form of outreach. Interestingly, some refused to even shake the untouchables’ hands and most brought their own catered food instead of consuming what the untouchables had on offer. And note rcscwc I am speaking of Today, not 19th century slavery but today.

The Catholic Saint Mother Teresa did more to help and bring attention to the sad plight of the dalits than any member of the Hindu upper caste in my opinion. You see rcscwc, in Christianity every human life is precious and a person suffers not because of some fictional bad karma from a previous life. Do you believe rcscwc that all those suffering today are suffering because of bad things they did in a past life, is that what you believe as a Hindu?
 
rcscwc said:
We cremate and immerse the ashes in rivers. We do not preserve dead bodies. Period.
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Do you also approve of forcibly throwing a living widowed wife onto the funeral pyre of her husband as Hindus have been known to do?
 
KyivAndrew said:
Hey josie, you asked this of the Hindu poster rcscwc and I would be interested in hearing his response in justifying the millions upon millions of dalits and their existence in Hindu India. Christian Amanpour once did a documentary on their sorry plight, and one female of the Hindu upper caste averred that for her to marry an untouchable would be like marrying an animal. :mad:

Recently in Indian politics, members of the upper castes decided for a day to sleep in the homes of untouchables as a form of outreach. Interestingly, some refused to even shake the untouchables’ hands and most brought their own catered food instead of consuming what the untouchables had on offer. And note rcscwc I am speaking of Today, not 19th century slavery but today.

The Catholic Saint Mother Teresa did more to help and bring attention to the sad plight of the dalits than any member of the Hindu upper caste in my opinion. You see rcscwc, in Christianity every human life is precious and a person suffers not because of some fictional bad karma from a previous life. Do you believe rcscwc that all those suffering today are suffering because of bad things they did in a past life, is that what you believe as a Hindu?
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I’m reminded of the Bible quote, paraphrasing here, “before you take the speck out of my eye, take the log out of yours”.

p.s. And blessed Mother Theresa did this out of pure love, nothing else. God bless you Andrew.
 
josie_L said:
I forgot to say “Happy Thanksgiving”. 🙂
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Hey just got this message. I was away from the keyboard working on the stuffing.

Happy Thanksgiving! 😃

p.s. I don’t think the Americans will have any idea what we are talking about here 😊
 
KyivAndrew said:
First of all Hobble some time back ago you posted that the ancient Egyptians were way ahead of modern science in that they had already found out about string theory and a whole bunch of other discoveries you postulated. Even Yankee Doodle asked you for support for these laughable points and you provided NOTHING. I guess you’re up there with Kurt von Daniken and Chariots of the gods.

Do you understand that Christians, unlike the Eastern religions, believe in a personal God, redemptive suffering and that we are not reincarnated after death. Do you at all understand this? Buddhism doesn’t preach heaven and hell but Nirvana. Do you understand this? Do you understand that Christians do not believe in karma, that there is some sort of cosmic rule which holds that if you act iniquitously in life, in your next life you may come back as an ant, a monkey, etc. Christians believe humans are made in God’s image, and not animals. Again, do you understand this? Do you understand that in Buddhism there is no sin?

And please provide an academic link to your theory that the ancient Egyptians discovered string theory. :rolleyes:
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As I said, the heaven and hell concept is a different interperatation of older ideas. In Buddhism if you build up bad karma through your life, you will be reborn into one of the lower five realms (like hell) called Naraka, but unlike Christianity this hell is not eternal, you live there until you have balanced your karma. Which does seem a lot more rational than an eternal hell, which is just overboard. Many other ancient mythologies have concepts of heaven and hell as well. They don’t all have the same name of course, but the concept has been around long before Christianity, some of which are closer to the Christian version than Buddhism is. Sin is a parrelel idea to negative karma, once again the name changed but the concept is ancient.

In my opinion, the heaven and hell concepts are metaphors for levels of consciousness. Hell represents lower consciousness (fear, greed, hate, etc) heaven represents higher consciousness (love, nurture, curiosity, etc). And I don’t think these conscious levels are limited to our human lives, but are a part of universal nature. The concept of a literal place where you burn for eternity is overboard and unrealistic, I find it tragic that so many people believe it and live with an actual fear of such a place for their entire lives.

The idea that human’s are made in the image of God, and everything is here for us, is probably the main aspect of Christianity that has never sat well with me. Overall it seems like an elitist concept, and immature. Our species is pretty insignificant in this universe, it would continue with or without us. The way we’ve treated this planet is almost locust like, the concept that the rest of the universe is for us to do the same to seems very off to me. I don’t buy it.

There are other aspects of Christianity which contradict themselves that come off as red alarms. Such as God being omniscience, yet we have free will, the two cancel each other out. Also the way that God’s approach has changed a lot from the old testament to the new testament, God comes off as inconsistent, which once again is off for an omniscience being, and some of the genocides he orders/commits don’t sit well with me, they don’t seem like the actions of a divine being.

I’ll dig up some sources for the string theory. It’s a relatively new study, but egyptologists/symbologists have been noticing that Dogon mythology contains many concepts which are very similar to modern scientific concepts such as string theory.
 
Oh no … not a new religion :eek:

I guess real facts are just too boring for most people :confused:
 
Hobble said:
Sin is a parrelel idea to negative karma, once again the name changed but the concept is ancient.
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No it isn’t. No less an authority than the Dalai Lama stated there is NO sin in Buddhism. I believe you either misunderstand the Christian conception of what sin is in the eyes of God and in creation, to what is stipulated in the Eightfold Path in Buddhism of Right Action and not. They are different. In Christianity, only God can forgive sin as it is a metaphysical evil; in Buddhism there is no such concept of god or sin for that matter.
 
KyivAndrew said:
No it isn’t. No less an authority than the Dalai Lama stated there is NO sin in Buddhism. I believe you either misunderstand the Christian conception of what sin is in the eyes of God and in creation, to what is stipulated in the Eightfold Path in Buddhism of Right Action and not. They are different. In Christianity, only God can forgive sin as it is a metaphysical evil; in Buddhism there is no such concept of god or sin for that matter.
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Negative karma and sin are both achieved from similar actions, the lack good actions or forgiveness from a higher being both result in the descent to a lower realm. The two concepts are very similar. The only big differences is the need for forgiveness from God in Christianity where as karma can be balanced with good deeds, and Christianity has an infinite time in the lower realm while Buddhism has a finite time there.
 
Hobble said:
Negative karma and sin are both achieved from similar actions, the lack good actions or forgiveness from a higher being both result in the descent to a lower realm. The two concepts are very similar. The only big differences is the need for forgiveness from God in Christianity where as karma can be balanced with good deeds, and Christianity has an infinite time in the lower realm while Buddhism has a finite time there.
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I think you similarly misunderstand heaven as it is in Christianity and as it is in Buddhism. The entire concept of Buddhist Nirvana, as in the extinguishing of oneself as one blows out a candle, constitutes in the Pope’s words an unacceptable “negative soteriology”. Nirvana and its self-defeating (literally) goal is entirely alien to the concept of being in God’s Love in Heaven.

Similarly on your points in Hell. The Catholic Church has never authoritatively stated how many or which human specifically is in Hell. The Church leaves this entirely in God’s hands at the same time that it pronounces in the Catechism that we are to hope, as Christ taught, for the Salvation of all souls.
 
Hobble said:
The idea that human’s are made in the image of God, and everything is here for us, is probably the main aspect of Christianity that has never sat well with me. Overall it seems like an elitist concept, and immature. Our species is pretty insignificant in this universe, it would continue with or without us. The way we’ve treated this planet is almost locust like, the concept that the rest of the universe is for us to do the same to seems very off to me. I don’t buy it.
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Are you a vegetarian? Do you believe in speciesism and that perhaps Humanity is a curse on Earth and that the sooner Humans are extinguished from this earth, the better Mother Earth will be? There are quite a number of misanthropic, people-hating people who believe this quackery that all humans bad, animals beautiful. After all, they are all so fuzzy and cute and lovable unlike mean Frank up the street.

Is the difference between humans and animals a difference in kind or degree? Which has more value in your universe: a) that cute, beautiful border collie who is so intelligent, or b) the virtually immobile ill baby with Down’s syndrome and other illnesses whose hopes of living a full life are low?

Hobble, do you believe in euthanasia for the extremely sick, elderly, or born sick? After all I take it your opinion of humans is not too high if you seem to equate our “value” with the value of an animal.

Finally, do you believe that my sick, epileptic, developmentally challenged neigbor’s kid who passed away not too long ago suffered tremendously in this life because of bad karma he made in some hypothetical past life?
Christianity has one answer for his suffering, Buddhism and Hinduism an entirely different one - which one meets with your approval?
 
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