Atheists Most knowledgeable about religoins

[CharlesDarwin]

mobile.latimes.com/wap/news/text.jsp?sid=294&nid=23170009 &cid=16686&scid=-1&ith=1&title=Nation

Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says

By Mitchell Landsberg, Los Angeles Times
Story posted 2010.09.27 at 09:07 PM PDT

If you want to know about God, you might want to talk to an atheist.

Heresy? Perhaps. But a survey that measured Americans’ knowledge of religion found that atheists and agnostics knew more, on average, than followers of most major faiths. In fact, the gaps in knowledge among some of the faithful may give new meaning to the term “blind faith.”

A majority of Protestants, for instance, couldn’t identify Martin Luther as the driving force behind the Protestant Reformation, according to the survey, released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. Four in 10 Catholics misunderstood the meaning of their church’s central ritual, incorrectly saying that the bread and wine used in Holy Communion are intended to merely symbolize the body and blood of Christ, not actually become them.

Atheists and agnostics — those who believe there is no God or who aren’t sure — were more likely to answer the survey’s questions correctly. Jews and Mormons ranked just below them in the survey’s measurement of religious knowledge — so close as to be statistically tied.

So why would an atheist know more about religion than a Christian?

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

“These are people who thought a lot about religion,” he said. “They’re not indifferent. They care about it.”

Atheists and agnostics also tend to be relatively well educated, and the survey found, not surprisingly, that the most knowledgeable people were also the best educated. However, it said that atheists and agnostics also outperformed believers who had a similar level of education.

The groups at the top of the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey were followed, in order, by white evangelical Protestants, white Catholics, white mainline Protestants, people who were unaffiliated with any faith (but not atheist or agnostic), black Protestants and Latino Catholics.

Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists were included in the survey, but their numbers were too small to be broken out as statistically significant groups.

Stephen Prothero, a professor of religion at Boston University and author of “Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know — And Doesn’t,” served as an advisor on the survey. “I think in general the survey confirms what I argued in the book, which is that we know almost nothing about our own religions and even less about the religions of other people,” he said.

He said he found it significant that Mormons, who are not considered Christians by many fundamentalists, showed greater knowledge of the Bible than evangelical Christians.

The Rev. Adam Hamilton, a Methodist minister from Leawood, Kan., and the author of “When Christians Get it Wrong,” said the survey’s results may reflect a reluctance by many people to dig deeply into their own beliefs and especially into those of others.

“I think that what happens for many Christians is, they accept their particular faith, they accept it to be true and they stop examining it. Consequently, because it’s already accepted to be true, they don’t examine other people’s faiths. … That, I think, is not healthy for a person of any faith,” he said.

The Pew survey was not without its bright spots for the devout. Eight in 10 people surveyed knew that Mother Teresa was Catholic. Seven in 10 knew that, according to the Bible, Moses led the exodus from Egypt and that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

The question that elicited the most correct responses concerned whether public school teachers are allowed to lead their classes in prayer. Eighty-nine percent of the respondents correctly said no. However, 67% also said that such teachers are not permitted to read from the Bible as an example of literature, something the law clearly allows.

For comparison purposes, the survey also asked some questions about general knowledge, which yielded the scariest finding: 4% of Americans believe that Stephen King, not Herman Melville, wrote “Moby Dick.”

mitchell.landsberg@latimes.com

I am for one…not at all surprised by this I am often astonished by how little people of faith know about their own religion. I also agree with the premise cited in the article. as an Atheist I grew up religious and only left faith after a great deal of personal thought and outside study about my own faith as well as faiths of others.

 

[bingbang]

I also agree with the premise cited in the article. as an Atheist I grew up religious and only left faith after a great deal of personal thought and outside study about my own faith as well as faiths of others.

Yeah, it makes total sense really. Now if they had given this questionnaire to the Catholics on this forum I would imagine they would probably do better than most atheists, but that is because they actually care about their faith. To be honest most people that identify themselves as Christian or Catholic don’t really care about their religion at all.

 

[catholictiger]

Yeah, it makes total sense really. Now if they had given this questionnaire to the Catholics on this forum I would imagine they would probably do better than most atheists, but that is because they actually care about their faith. To be honest most people that identify themselves as Christian or Catholic don’t really care about their religion at all.

another point to bring up is that athesist have to know what they are leaving well to be able to defend it

but i do think the people who call them selves religious but don’t practice it bring down the score alot while most atheist are very active in trying to understand what they left.

 

[Cat_Herder]

The groups at the top of the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey were followed, in order, by white evangelical Protestants, white Catholics, white mainline Protestants, people who were unaffiliated with any faith (but not atheist or agnostic), black Protestants and Latino Catholics.

In what language(s) was this survey conducted?

 

[ChadS]

Yeah, it makes total sense really. Now if they had given this questionnaire to the Catholics on this forum I would imagine they would probably do better than most atheists, but that is because they actually care about their faith. To be honest most people that identify themselves as Christian or Catholic don’t really care about their religion at all.

To add something to this I’ve known a few people that will identify as Catholic, but are functionally atheists. I imagine this survey was only concerned with what people identify as and that certainly doesn’t tell us how strong or how lived out that identity is. Don’t we all know people who haven’t set foot in a church for twenty years but if you ask them what they are they’ll say Catholic? I know I do.

ChadS

 

[catholictiger]

To add something to this I’ve known a few people that will identify as Catholic, but are functionally atheists. I imagine this survey was only concerned with what people identify as and that certainly doesn’t tell us how strong or how lived out that identity is. Don’t we all know people who haven’t set foot in a church for twenty years but if you ask them what they are they’ll say Catholic? I know I do.

ChadS

another issue about the survey is that they ask question about multiple relgions

an atheist will know a little bit about all religions while a religious person will only know about his religion

 

[ManOnFire]

Now, if only the atheists will learn the following:

Atheists have taken a leap of faith, hope, belief that God does not exist, yet, they have zero scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that He does not exist. If He does exist, then naturally, there will never be proof of his non-existence. If He doesn’t exist, then they’ll claim the philosophical and scientific paradox that one cannot claim a negative. EITHER WAY, regardless of WHY, the FACT remains that atheists have no scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that God does not exist.

 

[Scotskin]

I could be way off on this post, but bear in mind this is just how I perceive people.

I think the results are skewed.

I wonder if some of these “Christians” interviewed are actually “non-practicing (catholic/baptist/protestant/what have you)”. Because in my mind, there’s no such thing. You either ARE or you AREN’T.

I wonder if some of them claim Christianity without really having read the bible, or gone to church since their parents took them when they were children.

I think in this manner because when I was young, I didn’t know what religion I was. A neighbor asked me once and I told her, “I don’t know, ask my Grandparents”. The answer was Catholic, of course, but I didn’t know. So when I look back I don’t say I was a Catholic when I was a kid. I mean, of course, technically I wasn’t because I had been baptized but not confirmed. I studied different religions for years and didn’t decide until much later to formally become Catholic. I made the choice to BE a Catholic. And I strive to learn it and live it.

Also, I grew up in Houston, and in my shadier days I knew a lot of gang bangers. Ironically, I met most of them at a catholic school I went to for a short period of time. And of course, in South Houston they’re mostly Hispanic, which is a largely Catholic culture. So I’ve seen plenty of youth with rosary and catholic imagery tattoos (before they become somewhat trendy in the tattoo culture), wearing crosses, selling drugs, hanging out in strip clubs, having sex with random people, and committing violent acts against other people. Not just gangsters, either. Some punks in general - one who comes immediately to mind was Lutheran, not Catholic. These people weren’t even attempting to “practice”.

The last two paragraphs are actually extreme examples (but true examples) so of course there’s lots of room in the middle. But until I know which “Christians” answered those questions, I won’t take it too seriously. Saying you’re Christian without going to Church on a regular basis, and trying to live your life daily as if you truly believe you’re in the presence of God, or picking up the Bible once in a while is like saying you’re a football fan without ever watching the game, or only watching it because your friends or family are watching it, or only on holidays (such as Thanksgiving). I’m sure in some weird way in your head you are a true christian, but not in my world. So the idea of the possibility that some of those fools were the ones answering for Christianity is a gross misrepresentation and a shame.

I have a parrot. I’m sure if she heard me say enough times “I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Personal Savior” she would eventually say that she has, too. I know I cannot judge the state of anyone’s soul. I know that many of the examples I listed do include true Christians making very poor choices or doing what they feel they have to do. But it should also be known that many of them aren’t really christian in their heart, and having knowledge of Christianity isn’t a priority to them.

And as for the atheist/agnostic group - it is a reasonable assumption that people claiming atheism or agnosticism are actually educated in the theological sense. People who don’t know what those words mean, or what it means to be one, are in the minority, I’m sure.

And since the same can’t be said of people tossing the label “christian” about, I don’t think that survey is accurate.

And who is funding this? To what end? Those last two questions change everything in any sort of research. Ask anyone who has quit the FDA.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

Now, if only the atheists will learn the following:

Atheists have taken a leap of faith, hope, belief that God does not exist, yet, they have zero scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that He does not exist. If He does exist, then naturally, there will never be proof of his non-existence. If He doesn’t exist, then they’ll claim the philosophical and scientific paradox that one cannot claim a negative. EITHER WAY, regardless of WHY, the FACT remains that atheists have no scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that God does not exist.

J Angelo Corlett ( an agnostic ) in his recent “The Errors of Atheism” develops this point to some effect. He points out for instance that Dawkins is in fact defining himself as agnostic rather than atheist in “The God Delusion”. Dawkins, despite his clear psychological desire to be an atheist is still enough of a thinker to realise the essentially faith based nature of the belief and feels unable to make the jump worshipping reason as he does.

True atheists have made that faith based jump and are de facto adherents of a young, energetic and proselytising faith. Thus on average a true athesit will be far better informed about matters of faith than most nominal Christians who are de facto agnostics and will be as well informed as most believing Christians. This comes as no surprise to me at all.

 

[Cat_Herder]

And who is funding this? To what end? Those last two questions change everything in any sort of research.

Here’s where Pew gets their money.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

Now, if only the atheists will learn the following:

Atheists have taken a leap of faith, hope, belief that God does not exist, yet, they have zero scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that He does not exist. If He does exist, then naturally, there will never be proof of his non-existence. If He doesn’t exist, then they’ll claim the philosophical and scientific paradox that one cannot claim a negative. EITHER WAY, regardless of WHY, the FACT remains that atheists have no scientific proof to justify their own beliefs that God does not exist.

I have never heard an atheist claim there was proof of god not existing

I dont KNOW if god exists…but I BELIEVE he does not

most atheists you will ever meet are agnostic atheists

ie we don’t’ claim to KNOW god doesn’t exist only that it is so unlikely that we can safely assume he does not

 

[The_Reginator]

I am not very surprised either.

When one makes the jump to becoming an atheist one studies before conversion.

As a convert to Catholicism I often notice the same thing. We converts do a lot of study and soul-searching before taking the leap. (I was raised as a ‘low church’ Anglican.)

This process results in a deeper knowledge of what he/she is leaving and what he/she is entering.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

I am not very surprised either.

When one makes the jump to becoming an atheist one studies before conversion.

As a convert to Catholicism I often notice the same thing. We converts do a lot of study and soul-searching before taking the leap. (I was raised as a ‘low church’ Anglican.)

This process results in a deeper knowledge of what he/she is leaving and what he/she is entering.

indeed I would agree with this statement

why though do you think that this study at least shows a greater percentage of atheists show religious knowledge than religious? is it because atheists tend to not raise their kids in a lack of faith but instead encourage them to ask their own questions resulting in most atheists being converts or at least self chosen…where as most religious people do raise their kids only in their faith? resulting in most religious people being the same religion as their parents?

 

[Aboveallbereal]

indeed I would agree with this statement

why though do you think that this study at least shows a greater percentage of atheists show religious knowledge than religious? is it because atheists tend to not raise their kids in a lack of faith but instead encourage them to ask their own questions resulting in most atheists being converts or at least self chosen…where as most religious people do raise their kids only in their faith? resulting in most religious people being the same religion as their parents?

The answer to your question is No. Generally atheists are no more open minded about these matters than are other faith groups.

Atheism rather than quiescent agnosticism implies a “position”. People with a position a parti pris on things generally take a greater interest than the population as a whole. The findings we are discussing here really are just a reflaction of that. Atheists on this score being to agnostics what Christians are to nominal cradle catholics.

 

[ManOnFire]

J Angelo Corlett ( an agnostic ) in his recent “The Errors of Atheism” develops this point to some effect. He points out for instance that Dawkins is in fact defining himself as agnostic rather than atheist in “The God Delusion”. Dawkins, despite his clear psychological desire to be an atheist is still enough of a thinker to realise the essentially faith based nature of the belief and feels unable to make the jump worshipping reason as he does.

True atheists have made that faith based jump and are de facto adherents of a young, energetic and proselytising faith. Thus on average a true athesit will be far better informed about matters of faith than most nominal Christians who are de facto agnostics and will be as well informed as most believing Christians. This comes as no surprise to me at all.

Yes, I could have offered this same info in my argument, but I wanted to see if they would come up with it on their own.

 

[thirdworld]

You can’t really be a Christian if you don’t know much about Christianity, right?

 

[ManOnFire]

I have never heard an atheist claim there was proof of god not existing

I dont KNOW if god exists…but I BELIEVE he does not

most atheists you will ever meet are agnostic atheists

ie we don’t’ claim to KNOW god doesn’t exist only that it is so unlikely that we can safely assume he does not

You have every right to BELIEVE that God doesn’t exist, but this belief is just a belief. There’s no scientific proof to justify the belief. It’s a belief that is EQUAL to religious faith. See aboveallbereal’s post for a better explanation. My point is that so many atheists are hot to act superior to the religious citing the religious’ lack of scientific proof as evidence, when atheists havenone either. That’s hypocritical. If you want to call yourself an agnostic, that would be more accurate.

 

[clmowry]

It would be interesting see the actual study questions and the demographics of the respondents.

Is the data out there somewhere?

It makes perfect sense, at least to me, that atheists / agnostics would have more general knowledge about a wide variety of religions than member of a specific religious group.

I wouldn’t expect most Catholics, for example, to have familiarity with anything beyond Catholic beliefs. i.e. I would have had no idea what a “Calvinist” believed for example until I was in my 30s, much less what various other world religions teach.

So if you asked me a list of 30 question and only 10 of them pertained to the Catholic faith, I would have gotten probably no more than 15 or so correct.

It seems more likely to me that an atheist would have investigated a wider body of religions before rejecting them.

Then again maybe I’m giving the average atheist too much credit?

Chuck

 

[catholictiger]

It would be interesting see the actual study questions and the demographics of the respondents.

Is the data out there somewhere?

It makes perfect sense, at least to me, that atheists / agnostics would have more general knowledge about a wide variety of religions than member of a specific religious group.

I wouldn’t expect most Catholics, for example, to have familiarity with anything beyond Catholic beliefs. i.e. I would have had no idea what a “Calvinist” believed for example until I was in my 30s, much less what various other world religions teach.

So if you asked me a list of 30 question and only 10 of them pertained to the Catholic faith, I would have gotten probably no more than 15 or so correct.

It seems more likely to me that an atheist would have investigated a wider body of religions before rejecting them.

Then again maybe I’m giving the average atheist too much credit?

Chuck

you are right that is the same thing im thinking

 

[NPS]

mobile.latimes.com/wap/news/text.jsp?sid=294&nid=23170009 &cid=16686&scid=-1&ith=1&title=Nation

I am for one…not at all surprised by this I am often astonished by how little people of faith know about their own religion. I also agree with the premise cited in the article. as an Atheist I grew up religious and only left faith after a great deal of personal thought and outside study about my own faith as well as faiths of others.

Consider reading the study before patting yourself on the back too hard. There weren’t enough atheists to make a category so they put them in with agnostics. (They usually do, since only about 1.5% of Americans are atheist.) There were virtually no atheists involved in the study. Your post title should give credit where credit is due–to agnostics.

What you WANT to claim—that atheists are just so smart that they learn about religion and refute it—is simply not proven here. The study clearly shows that it is those “with low religious commitment” who drop the overall numbers down for the “religious” categories. This isn’t news to anyone here.

In reality, it was largely the questions about world religions which put atheists/agnostics at the top. You may also notice that “white evangelical” scored higher than atheists on the christianity questions. Which, if you play your theory out, would show that evangelicals are "smarter’ than atheists. And mormons are much smarter than anyone.