Atheists not understanding Christianity

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I don’t know if my comments will be useful or not, rose.gold, since I must admit, now in my 60th year, that my Catholic faith is hanging by a thread. I ask similar questions to the ones your boyfriend asks. Much of what used to make perfect sense to me does so no longer.

I can tell you, however, what has kept me from walking away.

It’s not the authority of the Church and its ordained representatives. It’s not the words of scripture. It’s not personal experience of God. It’s not theological arguments. It’s not the hope of reward or the fear of punishment. It’s not prayer (at least not my own.) It is, rather, the people that I have come to know and love over the years-- good, decent, and faithful Catholics, as well as Christians of other stripes, with whom I have shared the pews and have broken bread.

These people are not perfect. They are not likely to be admitted to the ranks of official sainthood. They are just ordinary fellow humans trying as best they can to live their faith, to be the people they believe God wants them to be. They stumble and struggle, but they are genuine, they are convinced, and they persevere.Their examples inspire me, and truthfully, shame me at the same time.

First and foremost among them is my wife of 38 years. She does not preach or exhort, but smiles and quietly takes in stride my questions and doubts. (She does fret a bit about the ultimate fate of my eternal soul.) But in the end, she simply loves me and lives a life worthy of emulation.

You can do the same, rose.gold. You don’t have to be perfect and you don’t have to have the answers to all his questions. Show him, without show, by your life and deeds what it’s like to be a Christ-follower. The Way is often easier to see than to hear.
 
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SpaghettiCowboy said:
She does fret a bit about the ultimate fate of my eternal soul.
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This is something that I just don’t get. I mean, I really don’t get.

What is the absolute worst possible thing that could happen to anyone? Well, what else could it be than if you were to spend eternity in hell. And a loved one would ‘fret a bit’ about it? If I believed it was even a remote possibility then I would be beside myself with worry. I literally wouldn’t be able to function.

My daughter went missing when she was about ten years old. Hadn’t made roll call for the afternoon in school. I was beside myself for the two hours it took for her to be found - having played hookey with a friend with no idea of the terror that her mother and I were feeling. And the worst that could have happened to her would be infinitely preferable to an eternity in hell.

I don’t get why people aren’t spending every waking moment trying to ensure that they, and their loved ones, don’t suffer that fate.
 
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rose.gold said:
Anyway, if an atheist is truly seeking the truth, but can’t make sense of Christianity, why is it their fault for not believing in God?
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Question:
My question is this: can an atheist go to heaven? Thank you for your time.
Answer:
If someone does not come to believe in God because of stubbornness or refusal to give up selfish desires, then such a person would be culpable for his lack of belief.

If, however, because of circumstances a sincere person is prevented from coming to belief in God, then his lack of faith is called invincible ignorance, and such a person would not be considered culpable.

More in the link below
Advice: Use Catholic answers like someone else mentioned. If you’re not one that enjoys reading use an app or site that will read out loud the articles on the site or use Catholic answer’s Youtube channel to gain wisdom through videos on such issues you mentioned. An example:


Consider growing in your faith. Study and learn more about it. Read the bible/Catechism. There’s videos of RCIA on youtube.

Pray for you and your boyfriend. Ask others to pray for you two. Use the forum for prayer request.

For a movie recommendation - The case for Christ. True story. Guy was an Atheist and became a Christian:

 
SpaghettiCowboy said:
She does fret a bit about the ultimate fate of my eternal soul.
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I was simply being flippant, Freddy, in a side comment barely relevant to the point of my post. It was in no way meant to literally characterize my wife’s concern about my eternal soul. I know she worries much more than she lets on.

But what can my wife do, really, to “ensure” that I don’t spend eternity in hell? Her living example effectively keeps me in the fold, as it were. I’m sure she hopes that, in time, my faith will return to more solid ground. But she knows me well and she knows that neither arguing nor worrying will do much good.

This is essentially also the dilemma of the OP. Rose.gold is concerned about her boyfriend’s non-belief, and by implication, his eternal soul. She is asking for advice on how to reach him. I offered a suggestion that is relevant to my experience, but ultimately, she’s not responsible for his soul, just as my wife is not responsible for mine.
 
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SpaghettiCowboy said:
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SpaghettiCowboy:
She does fret a bit about the ultimate fate of my eternal soul.
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I was simply being flippant, Freddy, in a side comment barely relevant to the point of my post…
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My apologies if my comments were taken personally. I should have emphasised the general confusion I have on this matter and not just with your specific case.

But the point stands nevertheless. It really must be the most important thing one could consider. It never seems to be treated much more seriously than you indicated.

I hope your wife’s example keeps you in good stead as it were.
 
No apology necessary, sir. Just thought a bit of clarification was in order.

And I appreciate the last line of your reply and your concern for my soul.
 
Thank you all for your replies! They were all much needed and very helpful! God bless you all ☺️
 
rose.gold said:
I just feel the need to talk about it more.
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Rose,

I’m sorry that you’re feeling frustrated. It can be difficult to hold to a deeply-felt personal belief and have a loved one present who is diametrically opposed to the beliefs to which you hold dear. I’ll pray for you and your BF when I’m at Mass tomorrow!

To your particular questions (which might have already been answered in this thread, but I haven’t surfed through the whole thing):
  • the problem of evil
    • God wants us to choose Him freely. To give us that ability, He has to allow for the possibility that people will reject Him. That rejection leads to evil. It’s the natural side-effect of the goodness of the gift of free will. To attempt to quash it would quash free will, and that would be worse than perceived ‘good’ of having no evil in the world.
  • how in the Bible God commands the killing of innocent people
    • those are certainly difficult passages to understand. However, looking at them through purely 21st-century lenses disenfranchises the cultures and people of the narratives. They lived in different times, and were faced with different circumstances, and merely dealing with them as if they were side-by-side with us in the 21st century West does them (and the narratives!) a disservice.
  • how there have been so many sex scandals in the Church
    • People are people. We sin. It’s disappointing when our leaders – whether heroes, or secular leaders, or shepherds – fall to sin. But, it happens. And we have to deal with the fallout responsibly, and continue to love our brothers and sisters who fall from grace, in ways that show respect not only to those they’ve harmed, but to them as well.
  • how the Pope can be infallible
    • He isn’t. However, he can make declarations of doctrine and dogma, on matters of faith and morals, which are free from error. Jesus promised it.
  • how the Church condemns gay marriage
    • if it’s a moral issue, is the Church not allowed to take a moral stance on it?
  • why God sometimes doesn’t answer prayers of those who are suffering
    • He does. Always. However, this doesn’t mean that He always gives what’s asked. The Catechism devotes an entire 1/4 of its content to prayer. It points out that the purpose of prayer isn’t “cosmic slot machine”, with appropriate payouts, but rather, it’s a means to help us grow closer to God’s will. Especially when our will isn’t in line with His.
rose.gold said:
Anyway, if an atheist is truly seeking the truth, but can’t make sense of Christianity, why is it their fault for not believing in God?
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Sometimes it is, and sometimes, it’s not. It’s not the case that “all atheists go to hell”.
 
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Ahh SpagettiCowboy - I see you have met Christ is these beautiful people around you!!!
What greater and better witness than your simple message to rose.gold.

Praying that you and rose.gold will increasingly share in relationship with His presence and the peace that it brings - Nothing is impossible to God.
 
I think it’s pretty easy to doubt Gods existence. All one has to do is look at the world too to doubt. I think a majority of atheists are so for intellectual reasons not just that they don’t want to believe in God. There are tons of religions and different views of God so a bad experience with one doesn’t necessitate complete atheism. I do think Atheism does have its holes though because just as you can’t prove Gods existence, you can’t disprove his existence either because “God” is some spiritual concept outside the realms of science and the scientific method. Philosophy is also not enough to “prove” anything due to its nature and the great diversity in human thought and in philosophy you could find “rational” philosophical arguments for both the existence and non existence of a god
 
You all are operating under the assumption that you have the truth and that maybe her boyfriend isn’t open enough or something. The reality though is that neither are you. You are not open to truly discussing other faiths or the possibility that your faith is not true or that God does not exist. At most there is only surface level openness as you try to argue against any other belief to reassure yourself you have the “truth”. Why would you expect anyone else to consider your faith and be open to the truth if even you aren’t? Anyone can tell themselves they already have the truth and so they must guard it from “doubts” or other beliefs. It’s almost like it’s hypocritical. Like why should he have to be open to Christianity or Catholicism if his truth is Atheism? He already seems to have been much more open than Christians are by the fact that he has considered it, has learned about it, but saw reasons not to believe it
 
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If Christians could decide amongst themselves what the “authentic Christian faith” is, that may be helpful. Of course you then have to come some sort of agreement with all of the other religions as to which is the authentic religion. The problem is that you have too many different and often contradictory viewpoints to make any case along those lines.
 
You are free to think that.

As far as the existence of God is concerned, once you understand what is meant by this, the fact is self-evident - like saying, “this is this.”

As for the Faith, well, it is an act of grace. It is not a product of “arguing” or “investigation.”

Likewise - realize that many of us have not had “quests” of our own.

Peace…
-K
 
PickyPicky said:
Could you expand on this for me?
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Sure.

The oblique way in is to say that St. Anselm’s ontological argument “works,” if you already believe that what it is seeking to demonstrate exists…

To know that that God is that which is the First Cause of all things, and to understand the significance of causality and primacy together in relation to effects which we encounter, simply is to know that it is true that God exists.

Here is St. Thomas on the matter:

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm#article1
 
kapp19 said:
To know that that God is that which is the First Cause of all things, and to understand the significance of causality and primacy together in relation to effects which we encounter, simply is to know that it is true that God exists.
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OK fine. Although to me that sounds very much like “If you believe God exists, you will believe God exists”. Which is true, no doubt.
 
It’s rather interesting. I don’t think that God historically dealt with humanity as a theology textbook might. It’s a series of stories. Creation, Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the Fall, the promise of redemption. Mankind’s continued fall into depravity. God’s covenant with Abraham, the 12 tribes of Israel, ruled first by judges, then by kings. The chosen people out of whom will arise the saviour. Joseph and his brothers. Slavery in Egypt. Moses and the Exodus. David and Solomon. Messianic prophecies. In the fullness of time a baby born in Bethlehem.

It’s not a logic puzzle. It’s our story, the story if a continuing relationship which is always surprising. If I want logic, I’ll read Frank Sheed’s “Theology For Beginners.” If I want the story, I’ll start with Genesis.
 
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