Atheists:

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Veritas248 said:
Interesting interpretation.
We say God is Love, God is Truth, God is Wisdom, etc. When I say “God is Intelligence”, I mean it in the exact same way the others are meant. He is the source of intelligence.
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Explain the Phelps. 😃
 
Veritas248 said:
Violation of the Law of Causality. Non intelligence cannot produce intelligence.
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You’re right, but people can get more and more curious and press for more learning of their surroundings. Biologically speaking, intelligence isn’t built in for every next generation. BUT! There are certain people who get those mental gifts, whether it’d be as curious as savants or simply the ability to retain information.
 
phantasm said:
That’s what human society does and evolutionary instinct.

Aboriginal people did not have any supreme being to tell them not to kill each other, not to steal from each other, not to rape women, yet they survived and thrived until the Christian European Colonizers came to America and destroyed their culture, way of life and peoples.
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This merely points to the fact that the law of good and evil is written on everyone’s hearts. This implies an absolute reference point.
 
Veritas248 said:
Violation of the Law of Causality. Non intelligence cannot produce intelligence.
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You’re misusing the law of causality:

Plus, you’re peeing on your own shoes bud. If you say that nothing can violate the law of causality and then turn around and say that God needs no cause, then you’ve just defeated your own premise.

Either the law of causality applies to everything or it doesn’t. Which is it?

Plus, if you’re saying that intelligence can only cause other intelligence, where do new ideas come from? Wouldn’t that just be one person applying reasoning skills?

The point at which one monkey started using tools on his own is a step forward in intelligence, before him no monkey used tools. Where did he learn this skill?
 
phantasm said:
That’s what human society does and evolutionary instinct.

Aboriginal people did not have any supreme being to tell them not to kill each other, not to steal from each other, not to rape women, yet they survived and thrived until the Christian European Colonizers came to America and destroyed their culture, way of life and peoples.
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Its perceptions like this one that led to the Natives being called animals and other untrue fictitious stories.

If they were so barbaric, then pray tell how they welcomed the colonies. Taught them how to grow food and in general help them?

Do you think they had to be tamed first in order to be civil?

News flash. They had children, families, laws, language, and an order of an authority to lead them and - a creator.

I cannot believe you suggested they were so barbaric to make a point that is lost through proof otherwise.
The only time they became ‘uncivil’ was when they were being attacked for land.
 
Blade_and_Blood said:
You’re right, but people can get more and more curious and press for more learning of their surroundings. Biologically speaking, intelligence isn’t built in for every next generation. BUT! There are certain people who get those mental gifts, whether it’d be as curious as savants or simply the ability to retain information.
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It all had to come from somewhere. How did intelligence first come about? If at one point in time, the universe had no intelligence, then intelligence could not have arisen spontaneously. A greater cannot be created by a lesser. Unless the Law of Causality is false, but there is no reason to doubt it
 
WarriorAngel said:
Its perceptions like this one that led to the Natives being called animals and other untrue fictitious stories.

If they were so barbaric, then pray tell how they welcomed the colonies. Taught them how to grow food and in general help them?

Do you think they had to be tamed first in order to be civil?

News flash. They had children, families, laws, language, and an order of an authority to lead them and - a creator.

I cannot believe you suggested they were so barbaric to make a point that is lost through proof otherwise.
The only time they became ‘uncivil’ was when they were being attacked for land.
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Er, you sure you read my post correctly, cause I don’t have a flippin’ clue what your yammering on about. 🤷
 
SlackMaster said:
You’re misusing the law of causality:

Plus, you’re peeing on your own shoes bud. If you say that nothing can violate the law of causality and then turn around and say that God needs no cause, then you’ve just defeated your own premise.

Either the law of causality applies to everything or it doesn’t. Which is it?

Plus, if you’re saying that intelligence can only cause other intelligence, where do new ideas come from? Wouldn’t that just be one person applying reasoning skills?

The point at which one monkey started using tools on his own is a step forward in intelligence, before him no monkey used tools. Where did he learn this skill?
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It applies to all. The law of Causality states that an effect cannot be greater than its cause.
If God is not caused, then the law of causality does not apply.
There needs to be an uncaused cause, or the sequence of cause and effects would progress ad infinitum into the past. But the universe isn’t eternal.

New ideas come from a person who already has intelligence.

As to the last question, that is what I’m asking you.
 
Veritas248 said:
It all had to come from somewhere. How did intelligence first come about? If at one point in time, the universe had no intelligence, then intelligence could not have arisen spontaneously. A greater cannot be created by a lesser. Unless the Law of Causality is false, but there is no reason to doubt it
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You gotta crawl before you can walk, sport. Intelligence didn’t happen overnight. It builds, and humans have built it, and thrived on it, and even misused it.
 
SlackMaster said:
You’re misusing the law of causality:

Plus, you’re peeing on your own shoes bud. If you say that nothing can violate the law of causality and then turn around and say that God needs no cause, then you’ve just defeated your own premise.

Either the law of causality applies to everything or it doesn’t. Which is it?

Plus, if you’re saying that intelligence can only cause other intelligence, where do new ideas come from? Wouldn’t that just be one person applying reasoning skills?

The point at which one monkey started using tools on his own is a step forward in intelligence, before him no monkey used tools. Where did he learn this skill?
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Veritas is correct.

Cause and effect. One cannot have the effect without the cause.
 
Blade_and_Blood said:
You gotta crawl before you can walk, sport. Intelligence didn’t happen overnight. It builds, and humans have built it, and thrived on it, and even misused it.
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Intelligence can grow, but it can’t be caused from non intelligence. So between the point where there was no intelligence in the universe and the point where intelligence entered the universe, there needs to be something greater than intelligence to cause it.
 
Veritas248 said:
It applies to all. The law of Causality states that an effect cannot be greater than it’s cause.
If God is not caused, then the law of causality does not apply.
There needs to be an uncaused cause, or the sequence of cause and effects would progress ad infinitum into the past. But the universe isn’t eternal.

New ideas come from a person who already has intelligence.

As to the last question, that is what I’m asking you.
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… He picked it up. :ehh:

As for the effect not being cause than the cause: Have you not heard of Frankenstein. :eek: Or even technology?
 
Veritas248 said:
Intelligence can grow, but it can’t be caused from non intelligence. So between the point where there was no intelligence in the universe and the point where intelligence entered the universe, there needs to be something greater than intelligence to cause it.
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The human.
 
Blade_and_Blood said:
… He picked it up. :ehh:

As for the effect not being cause than the cause: Have you not heard of Frankenstein. :eek: Or even technology?
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Picked it up from where? Not from non intelligence.
Frankenstein is fiction. Who cares?
Give me an example in technology where the effect is greater than the cause. I doubt you’ll find any. The human mind created technology and it is greater than all of it.
 
Blade_and_Blood said:
… He picked it up. :ehh:

As for the effect not being cause than the cause: Have you not heard of Frankenstein. :eek: Or even technology?
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Picked it up from where? Not from non intelligence.
Frankenstein is fiction. Who cares?
Give me an example in technology where the effect is greater than the cause. I doubt you’ll find any. The human mind created our technology and it is greater than all of it.
 
Veritas248 said:
For a human to create intelligence, it would require that the human had intelligence first, because otherwise they would only have no intelligence. Not a good answer.
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Again: This stuff doesn’t happen overnight… except for maybe insight, that can just come to you. 🙂
 
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