Atheists:

[Snerticus]

I was a Roman Catholic until my early 30’s, and no matter how much people around here don’t want to believe this, I was a devout Catholic for nearly the last 6 years.

Looking back, I certainly didn’t have anything figured out and I’m pretty sure that most Catholics don’t have very much figured out either.

The more I educated myself in regards to the faith, the more implausible it all seemed.

I’'m sure I’ll get reported for saying that.

You know what? I’m sure you won’t get reported for saying that. That’s quite honest and I’m glad I read it. It shows you’re human like the rest of us. And it’s nothing to be ashamed of.

A post like that shows that you are here for a reason and not just to bash us until we submit. I thank you for your honesty. I think it helps us all understand where you are coming from.

Really, thank you.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I was a Roman Catholic until my early 30’s, and no matter how much people around here don’t want to believe this, I was a devout Catholic for nearly the last 6 years.

Looking back, I certainly didn’t have anything figured out and I’m pretty sure that most Catholics don’t have very much figured out either.

The more I educated myself in regards to the faith, the more implausible it all seemed.

I’'m sure I’ll get reported for saying that.

Well then perhaps you were educated incorrectly. Don’t speak for all Catholics when you say they **like yourself **don’t have it figured out because that is why there are over 1.5 BILLION of them because they DO have it figured out.

 

[celluloid]

You could have no way of knowing anything, much less how nonexistence could affect you.

That’s just his point, there is no “you” to affect one way or the other.

Twain was a humorist, and he merely makes the point that oblivion is not so bad. I think once you are used to the idea of anticipated rewards in an afterlife paradise, nonexistence may be unacceptable, but that’s not my worry.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Well then perhaps you were educated incorrectly. Don’t speak for all Catholics when you say they **like yourself **don’t have it figured out because that is why there are over 1.5 BILLION of them because they DO have it figured out.

That doesn’t really prove anything. Last I checked the majority of the world believed the Earth was flat; didn’t make them right.

You can never really go wrong with general education (this goes for religiously based schools too ). There is always something good that comes from it, but of course there will be certain people who look down upon certain education. Depends on the person, though.

 

[Veritas248]

That’s just his point, there is no “you” to affect one way or the other.

Twain was a humorist, and he merely makes the point that oblivion is not so bad. I think once you are used to the idea of anticipated rewards in an afterlife paradise, nonexistence may be unacceptable, but that’s not my worry.

:bigyikes:Oblivion not so bad! What is so hard to grasp about the fact that oblivion is total nonexistence! Not so bad…you wouldn’t know! You wouldn’t be conscious! You wouldn’t even BE! For the human mind to even think how something like that could be not so bad, it must not have comprehended exactly what oblivion refers to. Its the ultimate form of self-hating. Its saying, “I would rather not exist than exist.” If that doesn’t entail self-hatred, then I don’t know what does.

 

[Veritas248]

That doesn’t really prove anything. Last I checked the majority of the world believed the Earth was flat; didn’t make them right.

You can never really go wrong with general education (this goes for religiously based schools too ). There is always something good that comes from it, but of course there will be certain people who look down upon certain education. Depends on the person, though.

Since I consider willful ignorance to be stupidity, I think general education is a good thing. Just as long as it is limited to the facts and not someone’s opinion about the facts.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

:bigyikes:Oblivion not so bad! What is so hard to grasp about the fact that oblivion is total nonexistence! Not so bad…you wouldn’t know! You wouldn’t be conscious! You wouldn’t even BE! For the human mind to even think how something like that could be not so bad, it must not have comprehended exactly what oblivion refers to. Its the ultimate form of self-hating. Its saying, “I would rather not exist than exist.” If that doesn’t entail self-hatred, then I don’t know what does.

It’s not self-hatred. We live, we die. We make the best of the life we have now, for the sake of being with others and making a difference in the world for future generations’ survival. Our purposes are fulfilled and we die with only the impacts or legacies we’ve created to keep our memory alive, even though our souls and bodies rot in the ground (or burnt to ashes, whatever your family prefers).

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Since I consider willful ignorance to be stupidity, I think general education is a good thing. Just as long as it is limited to the facts and not someone’s opinion about the facts.

Even facts influence your opinion… and your beliefs, and apparently that’s what happened to phantasm.

 

[Veritas248]

It’s not self-hatred. We live, we die. We make the best of the life we have now, for the sake of being with others and making a difference in the world for future generations’ survival. Our purposes are fulfilled and we die with only the impacts or legacies we’ve created to keep our memory alive, even though our souls and bodies rot in the ground (or burnt to ashes, whatever your family prefers).

What a shallow and limiting view of existence.

 

[Veritas248]

Even facts influence your opinion… and your beliefs, and apparently that’s what happened to phantasm.

That’s precisely the point. People should get the facts - the real, true, facts- and formulate their own opinion based on the facts. Not on their feelings, on the facts.

 

[Veritas248]

Wait a minute, I just thought of something: From what I’ve learned about evolution (Which is something I have no problem believing in) one of the the fundamental instincts is the survival instinct. Now all of this looking forward to and accepting the possibility of oblivion is directly contrary to this instinct. Could this be a hole in the evolutionary theory?

 

[celluloid]

:bigyikes:Oblivion not so bad! What is so hard to grasp about the fact that oblivion is total nonexistence! Not so bad…you wouldn’t know! You wouldn’t be conscious! You wouldn’t even BE! For the human mind to even think how something like that could be not so bad, it must not have comprehended exactly what oblivion refers to. Its the ultimate form of self-hating. Its saying, “I would rather not exist than exist.” If that doesn’t entail self-hatred, then I don’t know what does.

Well, as I said, it only seems bad if one assumes life/existence will go on forever. I don’t make the same assumption, and so I merely accept my fate. At least I know that after I die, I won’t suffer in any way. Besides, life will go on for others just like me.

 

[Veritas248]

Well, as I said, it only seems bad if one assumes life/existence will go on forever. I don’t make the same assumption, and so I merely accept my fate. At least I know that after I die, I won’t suffer in any way. Besides, life will go on for others just like me.

Note that I am trying to take this from a completely rational point of view. I am trying to figure out why anyone would be comfortable knowing they will cease to exist. The assumption of eternal life isn’t part of my confusion at the moment, because I’m approaching the situation as if eternal life did not exist.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

What a shallow and limiting view of existence.

Perhaps.

But, it makes Life worth living and loving (and worth capitalizing ). Being the best person you can possibly be in this one Life you receive is by far better than existing.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Note that I am trying to take this from a completely rational point of view. I am trying to figure out why anyone would be comfortable knowing they will cease to exist. The assumption of eternal life isn’t part of my confusion at the moment, because I’m approaching the situation as if eternal life did not exist.

That’s just your style. I honestly think you couldn’t turn off the Catholic way of thinking (whatever that is, I don’t remember). It’s no surprise that you couldn’t grasp it because of your personal beliefs. Not only that, but–well, just take a look at that quote in your signature.

 

[Snerticus]

Perhaps.

But, it makes Life worth living and loving (and worth capitalizing ). Being the best person you can possibly be in this one Life you receive is by far better than existing.

Wait, I’m confused. The only way that you can possibly be the best person in this Life is by existing. By that very fact, you contradict what you said previously that you look forward to dying (or oblivion). How can you think that Life is worth living and then say you look forward to oblivion?

 

[Veritas248]

Perhaps.

But, it makes Life worth living and loving (and worth capitalizing ). Being the best person you can possibly be in this one Life you receive is by far better than existing.

From a rationalistic and scientific perspective, I’m still having trouble understanding how one does not succumb to the despair of knowing you will cease to exist. I’m willing to suspend my belief in eternal life for the moment if anyone can give me a rational explanation. It is just completely contrary to the survival instinct.

 

[phantasm]

To you, maybe. I see evidence of the divine all around.

Some people believe that Aliens are all around us and the evidence is clear as day. Believing something without evidence, does not make it true.

 

[Veritas248]

That’s just your style. I honestly think you couldn’t turn off the Catholic way of thinking (whatever that is, I don’t remember). It’s no surprise that you couldn’t grasp it because of your personal beliefs. Not only that, but–well, just take a look at that quote in your signature.

Yes, I’m capable of examining things completely rationally. I’m putting myself in the place of the atheist, just to try to understand how does one avoid the despair.

 

[Veritas248]

Some people believe that Aliens are all around us and the evidence is clear as day. Believing something without evidence, does not make it true.

Belief in aliens is most likely just wishful thinking. There is no evidence for them. All it would take is one message from outer space, but we’ve never gotten it. There is evidence of God everywhere. Even so, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.