Athiests: What do you do when....

[Charlemagne_II]

That rule was not designed by nature. It simply is a fact of life. If I drop my mobile phone it’ll fall at 32 feet per second per second. Always. Everytime. That’s not because someone decided it should be that way, *it’s just the way the fundamental forces in the Universe operate.

So what you’re saying is that things are the way they are because that’s the way they are?

That doesn’t even get off the ground, does it?*

 

[Charlemagne_II]

AntiTheist

I honestly feel a little sorry for people who can’t enjoy things unless there’s some sort of magical “transcendent” meaning waiting for them.

And I honestly feel sorry for atheists on their deathbed. I’ve seen a few, and as a rule it ain’t a pretty sight.

Our lives have meaing – to us – in and of themselves. It matters not that there’s no sky daddy waiting to hand out candy when we die.

That’s only true if there is no sky daddy as you snidely call Him (why do atheists always have to be so snide when describing the Christian God?) But you don’;t know for a fact that there is no God, do you? You’re just guessing, aren’t you? Because there not one iota of proof that God does not exist.

 

[j1akey]

Charlemagne II:

And I honestly feel sorry for atheists on their deathbed. I’ve seen a few, and as a rule it ain’t a pretty sight.

I don’t know about you but except for Klingons I’ve never seen anyone at anyones elses deathbed and thought it was a pretty sight regardless of what they believe in.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

R Daneel

*Why don’t you just say it outright: “might makes right”, and stop the rationalizations? God has the “big stick”, and whatever he says - goes. If God orders genocide, then genocide is “good”. If God decides to kill everyone, that is his prerogative. After all: “might makes right!”. Let’s not beat around the bush here… the guy with the biggest stick is always right. Better suck up to him, because the big stick is there to beat the living daylight out of you, if you don’t. *

Why don’t you just say it outright? You’re ticked off because you hate authority figures.

 

[StrawberryJam]

R Daneel

*Why don’t you just say it outright: “might makes right”, and stop the rationalizations? God has the “big stick”, and whatever he says - goes. If God orders genocide, then genocide is “good”. If God decides to kill everyone, that is his prerogative. After all: “might makes right!”. Let’s not beat around the bush here… the guy with the biggest stick is always right. Better suck up to him, because the big stick is there to beat the living daylight out of you, if you don’t. *

Why don’t you just say it outright? You’re ticked off because you hate authority figures.

I don’t like Mayor Daley. He is an authority figure. Does this mean I don’t like any figure of authority?

I like many authority figures.

 

[j1akey]

R Daneel

*Why don’t you just say it outright: “might makes right”, and stop the rationalizations? God has the “big stick”, and whatever he says - goes. If God orders genocide, then genocide is “good”. If God decides to kill everyone, that is his prerogative. After all: “might makes right!”. Let’s not beat around the bush here… the guy with the biggest stick is always right. Better suck up to him, because the big stick is there to beat the living daylight out of you, if you don’t. *

Why don’t you just say it outright? You’re ticked off because you hate authority figures.

The ignorance of this argument is astounding and I can’t figure out why people even bother to use it over and over and over again. It’s so rediculous it’s hard to even reply to it without sounding like I’m throwing a kids tantrum so I won’t even try to avoid it. It’s hard to hate an authority figure that I don’t even recognize your “God” as anything more than a fairy tail like santa clause or the easter bunny or harry potter. What I do hate is theists who actually think they’re being clever by beating us over the head with the authority figure line. Your God or any other God has no authority beyond what the followers of that God decide to impose upon themselves an others no matter what god it is that we’re talking about here. I don’t believe in Thor and he’s got a big hammer but that doesn’t mean I have problems with authority

 

[Zatzat]

R Daneel

*Why don’t you just say it outright: “might makes right”, and stop the rationalizations? God has the “big stick”, and whatever he says - goes. If God orders genocide, then genocide is “good”. If God decides to kill everyone, that is his prerogative. After all: “might makes right!”. Let’s not beat around the bush here… the guy with the biggest stick is always right. Better suck up to him, because the big stick is there to beat the living daylight out of you, if you don’t. *

Why don’t you just say it outright? You’re ticked off because you hate authority figures.

I don’t think this is the case at all. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking those in positions of power.

I simply don’t believe that your God is real.

I don’t care how big a stick you think your God carries…,a giant imaginary stick is still an imaginary stick in the hands of an imaginary God.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

j1akey
*
I don’t know about you but except for Klingons I’ve never seen anyone at anyones elses deathbed and thought it was a pretty sight regardless of what they believe in.*

I’ve been present at quite a few deathbeds. None of them are joyful occasions. But some are downright miserable. The idea you seem to be suggesting (correct me if I’m wrong in what you mean to imply), that there is no difference between the death of a Christian and the death of an atheist, is not at all convincing.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

j1akey
*
What I do hate is theists who actually think they’re being clever by beating us over the head with the authority figure line.*

I think your hatred is honest and it’s refreshing to hear you admit it.

We aren’t the ones beating you over the head. God offers you heaven or hell. You are free to decline both on the presumption that neither exists. But because you don’t want to believe in our God doesn’t mean our God doesn’t exist and that as an atheist you are going to get a free pass just because you don’t believe in hell.

By the way, it isn’t our God who beats you over the head with a stick. If you go to hell, it’s because you have beaten yourself over the head with a stick. After all, as you well know, some people are really drawn to be self destructive.

We don’t set the rules. God does. So you don’t have to beat us over the head.

And we don’t really hate you. But as long as you’re in our parlor mouthing off at our God, you might as well get an earful yourself. Right?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Zatzat
*
I don’t care how big a stick you think your God carries…,a giant imaginary stick is still an imaginary stick in the hands of an imaginary God.*

Says you!

 

[j1akey]

Charlemagne II:

I’ve been present at quite a few deathbeds. None of them are joyful occasions. But some are downright miserable. The idea you seem to be suggesting (correct me if I’m wrong in what you mean to imply), that there is no difference between the death of a Christian and the death of an atheist, is not at all convincing.

Well to be honest, there isn’t a difference, just like there isn’t a difference between the death of a christian and the death of anyone else of any other given religion. People may have different rituals or ways of mourning based on their background and culture but dead is dead. If either one of us dies tomorrow, we either get put in the ground or reduced to ash.

It’s not as if you have any additional insight into what happens after death than anyone else on the planet since no one has ever died and then come back to life to tell everyone what happened on the 10 o’clock news. We’re all just going to have to wait and see. If it gives you comfort to think that there’s something on the other side waiting for you then so be it and be my guest but death is death and having belief doesn’t make it any easier to die.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

j1akey

• If it gives you comfort to think that there’s something on the other side waiting for you then so be it and be my guest but death is death and having belief doesn’t make it any easier to die.*

Says you!

 

[j1akey]

Charlemagne II:

I think your hatred is honest and it’s refreshing to hear you admit it.

We aren’t the one beating you over the head. Our god offers you heaven or hell. You are free to decline both on the presumption that neither exists. But because you don’t want to believe in our God doesn’t mean our god doesn’t exist and that as an atheist you are going to get a free pass just because you don’t believe in hell.

By the way, it isn’t our God who beat you over the head with a stick. If you go to hell, it’s because you have beaten yourself over the head with a stick.

We don’t set the rules. God does. So you don’t have to beat us over the head.

What I hate is the holier than thou attitude I get from people who tell me I’m going to hell for not believing the same thing they do or tell me I have a problem with authority because I don’t believe what they do, or tell me I don’t know the world because I don’t believe what they do, or I’m going to hell because I don’t believe what they do I can can never be truely happy because I don’t believe what they do. This list goes on and on and I have to hear this **** on a fairly costant basis. I have a problem when one of our presidents says **“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” ** I hate this “might makes right” attitude you all seem to have, this “there are more of us so therefore we are right and you are wrong, you shall burn in hell” garbage that I have had to put up with my entire life and I’m sick of bending over and taking it up the you know what over it. I’m sick of being pittied by people I meet because they think I’m going to hell. I’m tired of people trying to “fix” me or help me see the errors of my ways when “help” is not asked for nor desired. That’s what I hate. You can’t just accept people for the way they are, everyone needs to be turned and added to the flock.

No, your God doesn’t offer me anything. It’s just what you say and your church says he offers. It’s like a lawyer coming to me and telling me his company is offering me a settlement to keep my mouth shut and stop asking questions about their business practices. I never hear directly from the man in charge, just the person that delivers the message.

I applogize if I’ve been offensive here but this always gets me worked up.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

j1akey

What I hate is the holier than thou attitude I get from people who tell me I’m going to hell for not believing the same thing they do or tell me I have a problem with authority because I don’t believe what they do, or tell me I don’t know the world because I don’t believe what they do, or I’m going to hell because I don’t believe what they do I can can never be truely happy because I don’t believe what they do. This list goes on and on and I have to hear this **** on a fairly costant basis.

Well, maybe you have a problem with authority because you’ve given us quite a litany there. Do you hate “holier than thou” people who tell you that if you take drugs you’re going to kill yourself? Do you hate people who tell you that if you steal or kill, you’re going to the slammer, or maybe even to the death house? I could go on. You get the point. The laws of this nation carry a big stick. Do you get tired of hearing about the big stick? I haven’t heard you complain about the law’s big stick, but could that be because you’d sound pretty foolish if you did?

We believe in hell. If you don’t want to hear about hell, if you want us to tell you that because you’re an atheist you don’t have to worry about hell, then I think you have come to the wrong place. Our mission, among other things, is to evangelize.

I suppose many an atheist feels the same way.

 

[StrawberryJam]

j1akey
*
I don’t know about you but except for Klingons I’ve never seen anyone at anyones elses deathbed and thought it was a pretty sight regardless of what they believe in.*

I’ve been present at quite a few deathbeds. None of them are joyful occasions. But some are downright miserable. The idea you seem to be suggesting (correct me if I’m wrong in what you mean to imply), that there is no difference between the death of a Christian and the death of an atheist, is not at all convincing.

Mass murderers could technically fit into that description. I’m guessing you are in the healthcare business though.

Tell us about the “downright miserable” occasions of death you witnessed, and in the context you were a witness to them please. Bearing in mind your anecdotal evidence is not worth much mileage.

 

[j1akey]

Charlemagne II:

Well, maybe you have a problem with authority because you’ve given us quite a litany there. Do you hate “holier than thou” people who tell you that if you take drugs you’re going to kill yourself? Do you hate people who tell you that if you steal or kill, you’re going to the slammer, or maybe even to the death house? I could go on. You get the point.

The problem with this argument here is this. If I do take drugs there actually is a pretty good chance that I’m going to have a pre-mature death, especially with some of the harder ones. It’s been shown time and time again that this actually happens so that’s not really “holier than thou” preaching. If I steal or kill, I actually WILL go to jail. That’s pretty much a fact, I might get away with it but everyone gets caught eventually. So no I don’t get the point. What you’re selling is a story and a promise of eternal hapiness based on nothing.

The laws of this nation carry a big stick. Do you get tired of hearing about the big stick? I haven’t heard you complain about the law’s big stick, but could that be because you’d sound pretty foolish if you did?

I’d be foolish? See, this is exactly what I’m talking about, I’m the foolish one (obviously, how could I have not seen it before?! That’s the holier than though attitude I’m talking about.) First of all the law isn’t the topic of this discussion. Secondly the law that we as people created is a real thing. I can go test those laws should I feel so inclined and prove them to be true and enforceble. All I need to do is go pick one out of a very large book and then go do the exact oposite in front a police officer and see if it gets me into trouble. No one has to try and convince anyone that the law exists. The law is not a personal belief system and trying to compare the law and religion makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

What you’re selling is a story and a promise of eternal hapiness based on nothing.

The teachings of Jesus Christ are nothing to you. There you go again, that “holier than thou” attitude of defiance in the parlor of your hosts. Or should I say, “Smarter than thou”? Isn’t that the usual atheist line? Atheists are smart and Christians are dumb.

You see, you’re defiance is based on no evidence whatever but your own belief that there is no evidence. Christians have plenty of evidence. You don’t believe not because there is no evidence. You don’t believe because you don’t want to believe.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

j1akey

*The problem with this argument here is this. If I do take drugs there actually is a pretty good chance that I’m going to have a pre-mature death, especially with some of the harder ones. It’s been shown time and time again that this actually happens so that’s not really “holier than thou” preaching. If I steal or kill, I actually WILL go to jail. *

So what you’re saying is that because no one has been to hell and back to tell you about hell, and you haven’t been to hell and back, then there cannot possibly be a hell?

Well, I guess that’s logical from your point of view, but only if you are absolutely certain there is no hell. Are you absolutely certain of that? Are you as absolutely certain of that as you are absolutely certain there is no God?

 

[AntiTheist]

why do atheists always have to be so snide when describing the Christian God?

Because the conception many Christians have of this god is contemptible.

But you don’;t know for a fact that there is no God, do you? You’re just guessing, aren’t you?

No, I’m not just “guessing” – I’m basing my position on the fact that there is not one iota of proof that any god exists, just as there is not one iota of proof that Bigfoot exists (and please note that I am not comparing your god to Bigfoot – I am comparing the amount of evidence in each case).

 

[Zatzat]

j

Well, I guess that’s logical from your point of view, but only if you are absolutely certain there is no hell. Are you absolutely certain of that? Are you as absolutely certain of that as you are absolutely certain there is no God?

I am ABSOLUTELY certain that there is no hell. The entire premise, idea and concept of such a place having been constructed by the apparent creator of the universe, is patently absurd to the highest degree.