Atomic Bomb did not save lives

[GKC]

Hi, CKC,

What kept ‘our old friends’ the Russias out of Japan when it surendered.?

Tom

Where they were when the war ended. Which likewise reduced the number of casualties, by ending the war when it did.

GKC

 

[edwest2]

This is pretty accurate, and supportable from a number of sources. Japanese officials more or less on the impotent “peace faction” side have stated as much. The 2nd bomb ended the hope that there was only one. And, if had been needed, the 3rd bomb would have been on hand on Tinian by the end of August.

Japan had a fairly sophisticated atomic program, more so than Germany. See JAPAN’S SECRET WAR/Wilcox.

GKC

Germany’s atomic program was more advanced than Japan’s. In fact, the British T-Force was looking for unidentified Japanese in Germany as the war closed. If anything, the German’s supplied the Japanese with much advanced technology through the Yanagi program.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Roy5]

Just came across this thread and haven’t read all the postings, so perhaps several have already made these points.

1. The atomic bombs could and should have been directed at military targets. This would have indicated their power without killing so many innocent civilians in two ancient cities.

 2. Ironically, Hiroshima and Nagaski were the principal centers of Christianity in Japan. Hiroshima - the Protestant center. Nagasaki - the Catholic center since the Portugese introduced Catholicism to Japan several hundred years before.

3. It is true that the bombs hurried the end of the war and may have saved many lives, including thousands of US military personel. The problem is/was the targets chosen. 

4. The dropping of the bombs by the US on these two cities has been used effectively to stir up bitterness against the America since the end of World War II.

5. Of course, we had bombed Germany before. In Hamburg 100,000 or so were killed in a firestorm caused by one of our raids. Dresden was bombed when that city was full of refugees fleeing the Russians. I was in Germany soon after the war. When I first saw the devastation in Dusseldorf, then in the other major cities, I was dazed. I hated Hitlerism, of course, but my heart went out to the German people. Ditto for the Russian people, the Polish people, the English people, the French people, the Jewish people, the Chinese people, and all those (including our Americans) who suffered so much during that horrendous conflict.

6. Our carpet-bombing of Germany puts a lie to the foolish and false charge that we dropped the atomic bomb upon the Japanese because they are a 'colored' people. The bomb wasn't ready before Germany surrendered or we surely would have used it there. 

7. War is hell, and the older I get I have more and more sympathy for the Quakers, Mennonites and others who simply refuse to compromise their Christianity by becoming involved in the atrocities warfare inevitably causes. I admire conscientious objectors who try their best to live and love in accordance with Christ's Sermon on the Mount. 

8. Let's put less emphasis on new and more destructive warplanes, tanks, bombs and other instruments of death, refuse to let war profiteers make blood money off our brave and basically innocent young military personel, and place greater emphasis upon serious diplomacy with a deeper trust in God.

 

[GKC]

Germany’s atomic program was more advanced than Japan’s. In fact, the British T-Force was looking for unidentified Japanese in Germany as the war closed. If anything, the German’s supplied the Japanese with much advanced technology through the Yanagi program.

God bless,
Ed

But the Japanese program was technically on the right track, the Germans was not, and had been mostly abandoned. Heisenberg made a personal defense, that he had taken the German program down the wrong road, deliberately. HEISENBERG’S WAR/Powers, is worth reading.

You’ve read Wilcox? He discusses the German assistance, submarine shipments, etc.

GKC

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, CKC,

What kept ‘our old friends’ the Russias out of Japan when it surendered.?

Tom

My understanding is that it was Truman. The Soviets had declared war on Japan and had gone into Manchuria. Stalin demanded a “joint occupation” of Japan. Truman flatly refused.
The Soviets were not in a position, militarily, to make it happen on their own as they had in Germany, being too far distant and in a poor position to land in Japan by sea anyway.

 

[edwest2]

But the Japanese program was technically on the right track, the Germans was not, and had been mostly abandoned. Heisenberg made a personal defense, that he had taken the German program down the wrong road, deliberately. HEISENBERG’S WAR/Powers, is worth reading.

You’ve read Wilcox? He discusses the German assistance, submarine shipments, etc.

GKC

Heisenberg is focused on in the histories but his was not the only project. People are led to believe he did this or he did that as if he was running everything. He wasn’t. There were a number of projects; one under cover of the Reich Post Office, one under the control of the Army and another controlled by the SS. In the 1990s, the Deutsches Museum received secret documents from the Americans regarding German atomic research during the war. A select few were put on display in 2001, the rest are in their archives. Key individuals were Kurt Diebner, Walter Gerlach, Friedrich Berkei, Nikolaus Riehl and Werner Czulius. Another key individual, Manfred von Ardenne, developed the electron microscope in 1938, and worked in the German atomic program.

Much is made of the Germans who assisted the American rocket program, but what is little known is the number of Germans that held key positions in the Russian atomic program imediately after the war.

In the book Atomversuche in Deutschland, an ALSOS document is reproduced that mentions a captured German report that discusses the progress of the German atomic project as of January 1945. It was not abandoned as advertised.

God bless,
Ed

 

[GKC]

Heisenberg is focused on in the histories but his was not the only project. People are led to believe he did this or he did that as if he was running everything. He wasn’t. There were a number of projects; one under cover of the Reich Post Office, one under the control of the Army and another controlled by the SS. In the 1990s, the Deutsches Museum received secret documents from the Americans regarding German atomic research during the war. A select few were put on display in 2001, the rest are in their archives. Key individuals were Kurt Diebner, Walter Gerlach, Friedrich Berkei, Nikolaus Riehl and Werner Czulius. Another key individual, Manfred von Ardenne, developed the electron microscope in 1938, and worked in the German atomic program.

Much is made of the Germans who assisted the American rocket program, but what is little known is the number of Germans that held key positions in the Russian atomic program imediately after the war.

In the book Atomversuche in Deutschland, an ALSOS document is reproduced that mentions a captured German report that discusses the progress of the German atomic project as of January 1945. It was not abandoned as advertised.

God bless,
Ed

Geralch, Biebner, Berkei and Czulius are all discussed in Powers book. Which is worth reading.

The German effort was running into a blind end. The Japanese, primarily under the F-Go project, was more advanced. Though I do not think much of the story that the Japanese were about to test a device, working out of the Konan location, in August 45. Can’t cite the book; can’t find it.

GKC

 

[edwest2]

Geralch, Biebner, Berkei and Czulius are all discussed in Powers book. Which is worth reading.

The German effort was running into a blind end. The Japanese, primarily under the F-Go project, was more advanced. Though I do not think much of the story that the Japanese were about to test a device, working out of the Konan location, in August 45. Can’t cite the book; can’t find it.

GKC

The German effort was successful. An interrogation report was declassified that describes a test viewed from the air. The description describes the explosion in detail, long before the alleged test in the United States. Another test was observed by an emisarry sent by Mussolini, Luigi Romersa. His account was published in Defensa, number 76-77, August-September 1984. Both tests occurred in 1944. A post-war photo shows Romersa talking with Wernher von Braun in the United States.

The Japanese atomic project was also successful. A small device was detonated in North Korea. This was reported by a military investigator who had it published in the newspaper he worked for. Post-war, documents related to the Japanese atomic project were returned to Japan after the death of the man who had secretly kept them. Experts who had later examined the documents concluded “the device would not have been very powerful.” Obviously, to reach such a conclusion, the device would have had to have been functional.

God bless,
Ed

 

[GKC]

The German effort was successful. An interrogation report was declassified that describes a test viewed from the air. The description describes the explosion in detail, long before the alleged test in the United States. Another test was observed by an emisarry sent by Mussolini, Luigi Romersa. His account was published in Defensa, number 76-77, August-September 1984. Both tests occurred in 1944. A post-war photo shows Romersa talking with Wernher von Braun in the United States.

The Japanese atomic project was also successful. A small device was detonated in North Korea. This was reported by a military investigator who had it published in the newspaper he worked for. Post-war, documents related to the Japanese atomic project were returned to Japan after the death of the man who had secretly kept them. Experts who had later examined the documents concluded “the device would not have been very powerful.” Obviously, to reach such a conclusion, the device would have had to have been functional.

God bless,
Ed

Theoretically functional, which is not the same as functional, which is not the same as having worked. Yeah, I’ve read these fairy tales, too, particularly the Japanese, as related in the newspaper account. That’s the book I can’t locate here. I begin to see your grasp on history, in general.

What was your source?

GKC

 

[edwest2]

Theoretically functional, which is not the same as functional, which is not the same as having worked. Yeah, I’ve read these fairy tales, too, particularly the Japanese, as related in the newspaper account. That’s the book I can’t locate here. I begin to see your grasp on history, in general.

What was your source?

GKC

Is this how you conduct face to face conversations? Do you also add words to somebody else’s description? Then, after insulting them, ask them for something?

God bless,
Ed

 

[JW10631]

The bombs helped to end the war before Operation Olympic was launched. Anything else is opinion. My great Uncle Mike did not have to go and fight in Japan because of Little Boy and Fat Man.

War is ugly and terrible and nothing can be made to reform it. However, at times it is a necessary evil.

 

[GKC]

Is this how you conduct face to face conversations? Do you also add words to somebody else’s description? Then, after insulting them, ask them for something?

God bless,
Ed

No, and I don’t see that I did this time. But I am getting a feel for what you consider history. It explains things.

Karlsch, maybe.

GKC