Atomic Bomb In WWII

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GKC said:
No remnants of the Trinity tower are left. A second tower, of instrumentaion was also destroyed.

I have never heard of any Japanese test, in all my readings. In fact, IIRC, Japanese work was suspended in April/May, to a lack of uranium or pitchblend. The German sub delivery didn’t make it.

GKC
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The Japanese Navy nuclear facility was near Wonson, (now North) Korea. They have lots of uranium there.
 
Al_Masetti said:
The Japanese Navy nuclear facility was near Wonson, (now North) Korea. They have lots of uranium there.
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A lot of bits and pieces, which when taken together become persuasive. When I looked a year or two ago, there was quite a bit of material on the internet, but it seems to have been taken down since then.

[Consider that until recently, even the existence of the massive I-Class Japanese submarines was not widely known.]

amazon.com/gp/product/156924815X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Japan’s Secret War: Japan’s Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb (Paperback)
by Robert K. Wilcox (Author)

store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=74425

kimsoft.com/korea/jp-hung.htm

Pyongyang, August 8 (KCNA) – The Japanese Tokyo Shimbun August 6 disclosed that the old Japanese army tested an A-bomb in the sea off Hungnam on the east coast of Korea just before the end of World War II.

According to a secret document of the U.S. Army quoting the Jiji news from the U.S. National Archives, the U.S. Army was informed of the fact that a test related to the atomic power took place at a chemical factory in Hungnam in 1945 and ordered investigation into it. It also said in an investigation report worked out on January 16, 1947, that the Japanese army made an explosion test with the help of a boat in waters off the east coast of the North Korea, the result of which was like an A-bomb.

The U.S. forces received information from an intelligence officer of the old Japanese army that it tested an A-bomb in waters 30 km away from Hungnam at the dawn of August 12, 1945, and huge mushroom-like clouds rose at that time. Tokyo Shimbun said that Japan began an A-bomb research in secrecy on the order of the army headquarters from about 1940.
But then, this article wants to debunk the idea of a Japanese Navy bomb program in northern Korea:

physicsdaily.com/physics/Japanese_atomic_program
As you know from your own experience, there is so much squishy information out there and so many people either relying on or trying to quash the information, that it is difficult to know who to believe.

On the other hand, a lot of documentation was destroyed during the fighting and bombing during WW2. And even now, we are just beginning to find out a lot of surprising information about events that took place during WW2. New books about WW2 are being published almost daily.

I can’t wait for Cold War information and books to start to emerge. As it is, friends who are in the “dying process” are starting to write their memoirs, even if only as articles in “suburban shoppers”.
 
Al_Masetti said:
A lot of bits and pieces, which when taken together become persuasive. When I looked a year or two ago, there was quite a bit of material on the internet, but it seems to have been taken down since then.

[Consider that until recently, even the existence of the massive I-Class Japanese submarines was not widely known.]

amazon.com/gp/product/156924815X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Japan’s Secret War: Japan’s Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb (Paperback)
by Robert K. Wilcox (Author)

store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=74425

kimsoft.com/korea/jp-hung.htm

Pyongyang, August 8 (KCNA) – The Japanese Tokyo Shimbun August 6 disclosed that the old Japanese army tested an A-bomb in the sea off Hungnam on the east coast of Korea just before the end of World War II.

According to a secret document of the U.S. Army quoting the Jiji news from the U.S. National Archives, the U.S. Army was informed of the fact that a test related to the atomic power took place at a chemical factory in Hungnam in 1945 and ordered investigation into it. It also said in an investigation report worked out on January 16, 1947, that the Japanese army made an explosion test with the help of a boat in waters off the east coast of the North Korea, the result of which was like an A-bomb.

The U.S. forces received information from an intelligence officer of the old Japanese army that it tested an A-bomb in waters 30 km away from Hungnam at the dawn of August 12, 1945, and huge mushroom-like clouds rose at that time. Tokyo Shimbun said that Japan began an A-bomb research in secrecy on the order of the army headquarters from about 1940.
But then, this article wants to debunk the idea of a Japanese Navy bomb program in northern Korea:

physicsdaily.com/physics/Japanese_atomic_program
As you know from your own experience, there is so much squishy information out there and so many people either relying on or trying to quash the information, that it is difficult to know who to believe.

On the other hand, a lot of documentation was destroyed during the fighting and bombing during WW2. And even now, we are just beginning to find out a lot of surprising information about events that took place during WW2. New books about WW2 are being published almost daily.

I can’t wait for Cold War information and books to start to emerge. As it is, friends who are in the “dying process” are starting to write their memoirs, even if only as articles in “suburban shoppers”.
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I thank you for the links, which I will check out. It will take a lot of convincing for me to believe the Japanese had a succcessful test, but that’s what learning is about.

I can’t recall just when I first ran across them, but I’ve been reading of the I-class subs, including the “aircraft carrier” versions that were supposed to attack the Panama Canal, for many years.

GKC
 
There was a program on my local History channel last night about the coup attempt that, had it succeeded, would surely have kept the Japanese from surrendering when they did. What was interesting (to me at least) was the statement that the Japanese still had two million men in their army and over 10,000 planes. Given what their suicide planes did to our ships at Okinawa the prospect of support of the invasion of the home islands must have given the navy brass nightmares.

One other fact mentioned in the program was that in its 2600 year history as a nation the Japanese had never surrendered. The bushido mentality (valuing honor above life) led quite a number of officers to commit suicide after the surrender was announced and explains why they fought virtually to the last man on the island campaigns.

They had no understanding of our approach to war. Part of the reason the Bataan death march was so brutal was that they were totally contemptuous of the men who surrendered; that concept was totally foreign to them.

Apparently Truman had ordered the dropping of a third bomb, this time on Tokyo. It was the emperor alone who called for the surrender; without his acquiescence it would never have happened. Fortunately he chose to avert the catastrophe by doing the unthinkable - surrendering.

Ender
 
Ender said:
There was a program on my local History channel last night about the coup attempt that, had it succeeded, would surely have kept the Japanese from surrendering when they did. What was interesting (to me at least) was the statement that the Japanese still had two million men in their army and over 10,000 planes. Given what their suicide planes did to our ships at Okinawa the prospect of support of the invasion of the home islands must have given the navy brass nightmares.

One other fact mentioned in the program was that in its 2600 year history as a nation the Japanese had never surrendered. The bushido mentality (valuing honor above life) led quite a number of officers to commit suicide after the surrender was announced and explains why they fought virtually to the last man on the island campaigns.

They had no understanding of our approach to war. Part of the reason the Bataan death march was so brutal was that they were totally contemptuous of the men who surrendered; that concept was totally foreign to them.

Apparently Truman had ordered the dropping of a third bomb, this time on Tokyo. It was the emperor alone who called for the surrender; without his acquiescence it would never have happened. Fortunately he chose to avert the catastrophe by doing the unthinkable - surrendering.

Ender
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I saw that show too. Had to stay up until 0300 to do it.

3 of the Supreme Council for the Direction of the war favored ending the war ASAP, in late July/early August (it’s inaccurate to refer to “surrender” in this context) 3 did not, and they had the power.

And it should be noted that no organised unit of the Japanese military surrendered, as a unit, in the entire war. Indeed, it was a concern of the Allies that, assuming the government would decide to capitulate, would the military obey? The attempted coup was one answer.

The 3rd bomb was scheduled to be delivered to Tinian, to the
509th Composite Group, in late Aug. It would have been targeted on Tokyo.

GKC
 
There is an interesting book, “Nuclear War Survival Skills” by Kearney Cresson.

amazon.com/Nuclear-War-Survival-Skills-Expanded/dp/094248701X

Nuclear blast effects are so peculiar, that, as I recall, being in a simple below ground shelter would protect folks from almost everything related to blast, direct radiation, and heat. And staying in a shelter for (as I recall) 48 hours would protect against most or all of the radiation.

It had to do with proximity to the actual fireball.

Ever wonder how they protected the film cameras that they used to photograph the blast? Some structures were designed to survive by using the blast wave to set up shock waves that would cause the blast to go around the camera installation.

If Amazon is out of stock, then the publisher can get you a copy.

Sometimes the author appears at various seminars.
 
Al_Masetti said:
There is an interesting book, “Nuclear War Survival Skills” by Kearney Cresson.

amazon.com/Nuclear-War-Survival-Skills-Expanded/dp/094248701X

Nuclear blast effects are so peculiar, that, as I recall, being in a simple below ground shelter would protect folks from almost everything related to blast, direct radiation, and heat. And staying in a shelter for (as I recall) 48 hours would protect against most or all of the radiation.

It had to do with proximity to the actual fireball.

Ever wonder how they protected the film cameras that they used to photograph the blast? Some structures were designed to survive by using the blast wave to set up shock waves that would cause the blast to go around the camera installation.

If Amazon is out of stock, then the publisher can get you a copy.

Sometimes the author appears at various seminars.
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I was doing a search for “cresson kearney” and there is a place where you can actually download the book for free. So, you can read it right there online.

[PDF] Free download of Nuclear War Survival Skills book
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Cresson H. Kearny’s background and life uniquely qualified him to write … In 1998 Cresson H. and May E. Kearny still were living on their farm home m a …
www.nukepills.com/docs/nuclear_war_survival_skills.pdf - Similar pages

I just checked the link and it works.

[The author passed away a few years ago.]
 
It depends on the size (yield) of the warhead. There are bigger yields and smaller yields.
 
RobHom said:
The bomb dropped on those locations was Uranium 235 based and was considered “Atomic”, as opposed to a Hydrogen bomb…uses the nuclear fusion of hydrogen isotopes.

infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0824719.html

Had a “hydrogen bomb” been used in Hiroshima or Nagasaki…they would have ceased to exist.
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Actually, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was a Plutonium bomb and the Uranium bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. 🙂
 
Again, survivability depends on several factors, including the yield of the bomb. Both fission and fusion bombs may be high or low yield (and a fusion bomb always has a fission trigger.) How far are you away from the center of the blast, how large is the bomb, how much protection do you have, etc.
 
How much of this wartime propaganda can actually be believed. For example, I heard that the German soldiers were quite respectful to the women in the areas that they had occupied, unlike the American and Russian soldiers who went on a savage and brutal raping rampage against the women in the occupied German territories.
Similarly, this wartime propaganda against Japan is really an attempt to justify the brutal killing of women and children civilians by the immoral use of atomic weapons.
 
bobzills said:
How much of this wartime propaganda can actually be believed. For example, I heard that the German soldiers were quite respectful to the women in the areas that they had occupied, unlike the American and Russian soldiers who went on a savage and brutal raping rampage against the women in the occupied German territories.
Similarly, this wartime propaganda against Japan is really an attempt to justify the brutal killing of women and children civilians by the immoral use of atomic weapons.
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Good grief Bob, surely you are more intelligent than this!
 
bobzills said:
How much of this wartime propaganda can actually be believed. For example, I heard that the German soldiers were quite respectful to the women in the areas that they had occupied, unlike the American and Russian soldiers who went on a savage and brutal raping rampage against the women in the occupied German territories.
Similarly, this wartime propaganda against Japan is really an attempt to justify the brutal killing of women and children civilians by the immoral use of atomic weapons.
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Which demonstrates, again, that you know absolutely nothing about the Japanese society, through WWII.

I could recommend a list of serious books on this subject, but profiting from them would require reading.

GKC
 
bobzills said:
How much of this wartime propaganda can actually be believed. For example, I heard that the German soldiers were quite respectful to the women in the areas that they had occupied, unlike the American and Russian soldiers who went on a savage and brutal raping rampage against the women in the occupied German territories.
Similarly, this wartime propaganda against Japan is really an attempt to justify the brutal killing of women and children civilians by the immoral use of atomic weapons.
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Read some of this for a starter:

members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html
 
GKC said:
Which demonstrates, again, that you know absolutely nothing about the Japanese society, through WWII.

I could recommend a list of serious books on this subject, but profiting from them would require reading.

GKC
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Well, tell me what is wrong with my understanding of Catholic teaching according to which one is not allowed to directly murder a child in order to bring about a greater good.
 
bobzills said:
Well, tell me what is wrong with my understanding of Catholic teaching according to which one is not allowed to directly murder a child in order to bring about a greater good.
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Not a subject I address. As I have said repeatedly. If you are correct in your understanding of the magisterium on that matter (which I don’t argue, either way), you should follow it, as a RC. The only point I make in such a case (and have done so often) is to point out the consequences. Not argue that you shouldn’t follow your Church’s teachings.

What I do get into is positions that take the form of “And anyway,…” (And anyway, the bombs weren’t needed, the Japanese were ready to surrender, there should have been a demonstration, it was all done because of the Russians, the estimated casualties were inflated, etc, etc). Here you get into the realm of history and fact, not faith, and I do engage such revisionism.

I do sometimes note that the pilot of the Nagasaki plane was a RC, though.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Not a subject I address.
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Of course not.
Becasue the only answer is that it is morally wrong to directly kill innocent civilian children in order to bring about a higher good. I can see why you are not interested in the morality of this issue.
 
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