Atonement in EO & RC

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I’ve read a little bit on the EO view of atonement (ransom), but I am not really sure of what the Catholic view has… as I am searching for a new church one of the key issues for me is how one views the atonement… any help would be appreciated…
 
My advise is to first search out GOD’s truth, and then find the church that has the truth. You will spend a lot of wind shield time doing church shopping, and becoming more confused than focused.
Focus on truth, then search for it like gold.
 
How do I go about that? Both churches can claim apostolic succession and have “real” sacraments… I figure looking at the different issues, like atonement, would be the place to start?
 
The place to start is to research the “why” of the seperation. Why did the EO church ever become formed, when the Pope is the final authority, who is not EO.

Once you discover the reason, then research “if” the reason was valid at the time of the seperation, and “is” the reason still valid today.

Once you have that truth, then research “why” they are still seperated today. What is holding us from becoming one again?

The above will provide the answer.
 
The place to start is to research the “why” of the seperation. Why did the EO church ever become formed, when the Pope is the final authority, who is not EO.

Once you discover the reason, then research “if” the reason was valid at the time of the seperation, and “is” the reason still valid today.

Once you have that truth, then research “why” they are still seperated today. What is holding us from becoming one again?

The above will provide the answer.
A mostly good post. However, it assumes that the pope is “the final authority” (whatever that’s defined as). If one starts with that assumption it will no doubt lead to the RCC. I’d take a step back and question the first statement as well.
 
How do I go about that? Both churches can claim apostolic succession and have “real” sacraments… I figure looking at the different issues, like atonement, would be the place to start?
It’s just as good a place to start as anyplace else since the beginning of any seeker’s inquiry is usually intellectual. In the case of an inquirer who is interested in comparing the Catholic Church with Holy Orthodoxy just for comparison’s sake, then reading books, pamphlets, and blogs and discussing tenets on Internet forums is the most logical approach. But if you’re interested in the life application then my suggestion is that you spend some time in earnest prayer asking the LORD for guidance and then attend a Mass and experience a Divine Liturgy, following which you will be able to decide either for Catholicism or for Orthodoxy. After you’ve made your decision contact the priest and tell him that you’re interested in learning more. Father will guide you from there.

I wish you well on your spiritual journey. 🙂

Cordially,
Mick
👍
 
A mostly good post. However, it assumes that the pope is “the final authority” (whatever that’s defined as). If one starts with that assumption it will no doubt lead to the RCC. I’d take a step back and question the first statement as well.
Wynd,
My few sentences advising that you simply seek the “truth” did not mention the “Pope” or imply that he was “the final authority”. The fact that you read that into my statement establlishes a prejudice you have, which entones you may simply be wanting to join the EO and not the Catholic Church for feaf of having a “final authority”

However, since you raised the point, Jesus did establish an authority for HIS church on earth, and that ceremony of establishment can be found in Matthew Chapter 16, and on your historical search for the reasons why the EO church seperated itself from the Catholic Church, that reason, needs to be held up to the light of Jesus words, in Matthew Chapter 16. Does “man” have the knowledge and authority to override the words of Jesus?

Good luck on your search.
 
Wynd,
My few sentences advising that you simply seek the “truth” did not mention the “Pope” or imply that he was “the final authority”. The fact that you read that into my statement establlishes a prejudice you have, which entones you may simply be wanting to join the EO and not the Catholic Church for feaf of having a “final authority”
Hi Julian,

I have no fear or prejudice, I simply read what you wrote. Please see the quote below where I have emphasized the relevant information.
The place to start is to research the “why” of the seperation. Why did the EO church ever become formed, when the Pope is the final authority, who is not EO.
 
Wynd,
My few sentences advising that you simply seek the “truth” did not mention the “Pope” or imply that he was “the final authority”. The fact that you read that into my statement establlishes a prejudice you have, which entones you may simply be wanting to join the EO and not the Catholic Church for feaf of having a “final authority”

However, since you raised the point, Jesus did establish an authority for HIS church on earth, and that ceremony of establishment can be found in Matthew Chapter 16, and on your historical search for the reasons why the EO church seperated itself from the Catholic Church, that reason, needs to be held up to the light of Jesus words, in Matthew Chapter 16. Does “man” have the knowledge and authority to override the words of Jesus?

Good luck on your search.
I think that you are confusing wynd with the person that started the thread. Wynd already is Orthodox. Seeker987 is searching.

Though your dig at the Orthodox ("for feaf(sic) of having a ‘final authority’ ") was interesting.

Wynd’s post is correct. The original poster is considering “EO & RC”, therefore it would be incorrect for him to start from the premise that “the Pope is the final authority” (which you clearly stated)., since that has to be established first. If that was an established fact for the original poster, than he would not be considering the Orthodox Church.
 
I’ve read a little bit on the EO view of atonement (ransom), but I am not really sure of what the Catholic view has… as I am searching for a new church one of the key issues for me is how one views the atonement… any help would be appreciated…
Will somebody be good enough to tell me what EO stands for? I learned what LDS, and JW mean, but when it comes to Christian denominations, abbreviations really are a puzzle bound to remain unsolved if no one informs me of their meanings. Thanks and God bless you1
 
I’ve read a little bit on the EO view of atonement (ransom), but I am not really sure of what the Catholic view has… as I am searching for a new church one of the key issues for me is how one views the atonement… any help would be appreciated…
As I understand it, the EOC is not locked into any one way of understanding the atonement. Ransom is one possible theory, as is theosis, as is substitution (not necessarily penal substitution, though), and even the Christus Victor theory is considered. Most Orthodox will tell you that it’s more important to know that Jesus atoned for our sins than it is to know how it was done.

At least three of the above-mentioned theories appear in the Cappadocian Fathers, and none of them have been officially repudiated by an ecumenical council.
 
Seeker987;6399876:
I’ve read a little bit on the EO view of atonement (ransom), but I am not really sure of what the Catholic view has… as I am searching for a new church one of the key issues for me is how one views the atonement… any help would be appreciated…
As I understand it, the EOC is not locked into any one way of understanding the atonement. Ransom is one possible theory, as is theosis, as is substitution (not necessarily penal substitution, though), and even the Christus Victor theory is considered. Most Orthodox will tell you that it’s more important to know that Jesus atoned for our sins than it is to know how it was done.
I agree. One of the first books I read when I began seriously to explore Orthodoxy was Orthodoxy for the Non-Orthodox by John Garvey. I quickly discovered that Father Garvey rejected the “tired polemic” so ubiquitous in Western Christendom and I must admit that the discovery prompted me to feel a little disappointed. And when I subsequently came to realise that Orthodoxy involved embracing mystery and that I was expected to resist the frantic urge to nail everything down and live with unanswered questions I was even more dismayed. But I stuck with it and eventually became a catechumen. During my catechumenate I’ve slowly learned to reject the either/or in favor of the both/and and I’ve made a sustained effort to grow into the peacefulness of Orthodoxy. Now, with just over a fortnight to go before I am chrismated, I can truthfully declare that polemics no longer hold the attraction for me that they once did and, moreover, that I’m glad of it.

Contentedly,
Mick
👍
 
I agree. One of the first books I read when I began seriously to explore Orthodoxy was Orthodoxy for the Non-Orthodox by John Garvey. I quickly discovered that Father Garvey rejected the “tired polemic” so ubiquitous in Western Christendom and I must admit that the discovery prompted me to feel a little disappointed. And when I subsequently came to realise that Orthodoxy involved embracing mystery and that I was expected to resist the frantic urge to nail everything down and live with unanswered questions I was even more dismayed. But I stuck with it and eventually became a catechumen. During my catechumenate I’ve slowly learned to reject the either/or in favor of the both/and and I’ve made a sustained effort to grow into the peacefulness of Orthodoxy. Now, with just over a fortnight to go before I am chrismated, I can truthfully declare that polemics no longer hold the attraction for me that they once did and, moreover, that I’m glad of it.
I could have written this about myself. Well said.
 
SSTeacher;6407296:
I agree. One of the first books I read when I began seriously to explore Orthodoxy was Orthodoxy for the Non-Orthodox
by John Garvey. I quickly discovered that Father Garvey rejected the “tired polemic” so ubiquitous in Western Christendom and I must admit that the discovery prompted me to feel a little disappointed. And when I subsequently came to realize that Orthodoxy involved embracing mystery and that I was expected to resist the frantic urge to nail everything down and live with unanswered questions I was even more dismayed. But I stuck with it and eventually became a catechumen. During my catechumenate I’ve slowly learned to reject the either/or in favor of the both/and and I’ve made a sustained effort to grow into the peacefulness of Orthodoxy. Now, with just over a fortnight to go before I am chrismated, I can truthfully declare that polemics no longer hold the attraction for me that they once did and, moreover, that I’m glad of it.I could have written this about myself. Well said.
We are kindred spirits, then. May the peace of the LORD be with you always.

Fraternally,
Mick
👍
 
As I understand it, the EOC is not locked into any one way of understanding the atonement. Ransom is one possible theory, as is theosis, as is substitution (not necessarily penal substitution, though), and even the Christus Victor theory is considered. Most Orthodox will tell you that it’s more important to know that Jesus atoned for our sins than it is to know how it was done.
That is an excellent point. All of the so called “atonement theories” are nothing more than illustrative metaphors. They cannot and were never intended to define the very nature of our salvation. That is far beyond our human understanding.

What’s important is that we work out or salvation and build a relationship with God. That is the goal of our Christian life. All of our prayer, fasting, almsgiving, attending of services and good works are simply means to that end. 🙂

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
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