Atonement

[JJ59]

Hi there.

Can someone help me understand the atonement?

I should know this already, but how does Jesus’ suffering on the cross affect us? I’ve heard of ‘penal substitution’, and it seems to make sense, but I’ve heard it’s not what the church teaches.

Or was it just a symbol for God’s love for us? Sorry if these are heretical, but I’m just trying to work stuff out.

So if someone could explain it to me or give me an article online, that would be awesome.

Thanks!!!

 

[Trishie]

What gives infinite value to Jesus’s life, and His atonement, is that He is God and well as man. Therefore what Jesus gave us and gave for us is not a symbol of God’s love, but God’s actual love for us.
I only posted a copy of my prayer a couple of days ago, but I’m too tired this evening to come up with an alternative response to your question, so will just use the prayer and someone else can give you a more erudite response.

Jesus’ dying prayer
Father God, the sky is darkening with the culmination of my human destiny. I can no longer see Your Face! I humbly cry out to You from the depths of my being. I AM Your beloved Son who has accomplished all that You desired of me. I AM only begotten Son of Your divine Essence. You created all things through me. Yet I hang defenceless upon searing metal stakes that bite into my flesh and bone each time that I force upwards to gasp the very air that You created through me.

My torment is scarcely bearable and my mind faints and jolts in horrific awareness with the weakness of my battered, abused body. My body, ruined in its youthful strength, is exposed in degraded despoil. Fevered with dehydration, my eyesight fades, my ears ring, my head throbs, and my tongue swells. My muscles tremble uncontrollably, deeply bruised by the Roman scourgers who smashed metal and jagged bone into every part. My face is swollen and raw; my eyelid split, heavy with pain and blood. Sweat screams saltily in my torn nerves. My joints are dislocated with violent distension. My head can find no ease as the thorns gouge into my scalp with inescapable ache within my brain.

Yet nothing wounds deeper than the torture of love within my being. My heart thunders and rips with the anguish of love. Love is the shuddering gasp of my breath. Love is the dry, harsh voice of thirst that cries out my forgiveness. Love is the blood and life-fluids that drain from me. Love is my strength, my weakness, my hope, my faith and my generosity. Love has been my life and now it is my death. Let love flow from me upon all my brothers and sisters of humankind, to cleanse them from evil and discord. Let love draw them to me, in communion on their cross of redemption.

My Father how I love them, these foolish blind ones who watch me die, and taunt with indifference, lukewarmness and unbelief throughout the centuries. They have not seen and heard although I have fought the powers of evil for them, with persistent prayer and penance, with teaching and example, with humility and powerful truth, and now with my death. I am, for them, a bleeding, suffering testimony of love.

I love them, Father. Forgive them. They cannot understand what they do and fail to do. For my love of them even in my extremity, forgive them. Save them from the pitiless powers of darkness that rule the earth and oppress their lives.

They are my kin. I emptied myself of all glory and lived, witnessed and die—as man—for them. Pity them, for sake of my pity for them. I hold them up to You. My whole being bears the emptiness, darkness, and guilt of humankind’s deepest struggle. I would strive to enlighten them as I have these past years, but now is only time to suffer, to expiate, and to plead for them.
I have been patient with them, Father. With careful repetition and example, I taught them what they must take into their darkened minds for their soul’s redemption and for the nations to which I will send them in Your name. I frequently transcended the natural sequence of events to offer them miracles, so that they would recognise Your power in me, thus be encouraged to believe and to follow Your truth. Yet many only marvelled at spectacle, seeking more.

Father, my throat is bruised and constricted, for grief of the souls for whom I die. They cannot know how terribly wounded I am by their sin, infidelity, hypocrisy, mental blindness and hardness of heart. I am God and I am sinless man—so these things have heinousness and poignancy far beyond their dulled understanding. Nor can they imagine the depth of my love and yearning for each precious one’s everlasting happiness and fulfilment in You.

Father, look upon these Your chosen people from whom You drew my human form. They join with the gentiles to destroy me, for evil howled for my death, and they succumbed. Now it seems that my mission is lost to evil spirits who believe that they have triumphed over the only Person who could restore Creation and redeem humankind. Yet I shall rise again, because I am eternal Lord of Creation. I am undefeated, for my faith and love is Your reality and victory, You who are divine origin of all that exists. With my rising so shall humankind be raised to You.

it won’t all fit so I’ll continue next…

 

[Trishie]

*Father, I offer You my whole Self, all that I am and have done, with all that You are, to plead for salvation and conversion of souls. *I might have refused to become their redemption, yet I accept total immolation. Within it, Father, I hold each person to myself. In the wounds, the blood, in the tender swelling of broken tissue, in the shuddering of shattered muscle, in the sweat that burns across the clammy dust of earth upon me—within these is written the name of each human soul! Laden with humankind and with the sins and guilt of each, I offer myself to You, Father. As Your divine Son, I implore that You accept this prayer across the length and breadth of time.

Father, my Father, I am crushed! My humanity yearns for release and peace as grief and longing rasps at every fibre of soul, mind, heart and body. Speak in me, Father, out of Your own Being. Pray in me, and accept all suffering love at my torn, bleeding hands.

I am Your own, Your very Self—and these for whom I am living Sacrifice are my sisters and brothers, my kin, flesh of my flesh. Accept all my prayer for them—all ever prayed and suffered by any person in union with me throughout time, all love, atonement and praise from each individual, held up to You in my ruined hands. Everything You have given to me and to each soul, I return to You, with all that I am, which is of Your nature yet also of my human frailty. So Father, grant the coming of Your Kingdom in the souls of Your people, my own, out of Your great love for Me.

I hope that though I’ve used a symbolic way to answer your question, a prayer I wrote in tears for Jesus and maybe you’ll get what I tried to say in it and it does give something of the answer you need until someone else does so more specifically.

 

[Trishie]

To Jesus: gratitude

Jesus, although divine, You became human to teach and redeem us. As infant, child and youth You played, studied, laboured, and grew in obedience, cheerfulness, gentleness and strength. Behind Your eyes lay deepening knowledge of Your true origin, growing knowledge of God and man, creation and life. Your heart bore love that is wondrous, merciful, and eternal.

As man, You taught, healed, and shared Your life with other men, slipping away to pray to the Father of all life. You worked and socialised, enduring and enjoying human experience in everything but sin. Yet as You faced death in terrible aloneness, the putrid deluge of all humankind’s sins oozed upon You, to the nauseated anguish of your sinless spirit. Yet, You held out Your arms to bear the weight of all the darkness of our human race
.
In the Garden rebelling flesh sweated like drops of blood as Your humanity cried out to Love Itself for kind release. Yet You humbly, praying, grasped the will to save each person from eternal discord, sorrow and death—although many will only half-heartedly welcome Your gift and numerous others will reject it. Despite Your sorrow at this bitter truth, Your love prevails in total sacrifice.

Forever, therefore, through Your mercy, I owe You my eternity—of fulfilment, happiness and peace, of kinship with the almighty Father, in loving communion with all who accept Your redemptive Sacrifice, and through the divine Spirit, make Your life their own.

God Incarnate, what is Your will for me? I am redeemed by You, and come to You in all my burdened brokenness. I offer You my being, gifts, virtue; and even, in deep humility, I give You my faults and sins, pleading for Your pity, healing, and communion.

**Jesus, as man, You lived and died for me, as God can make me whole, and make me wholly Yours. **This enduring grace I also seek for each soul in my care, for am I not, as You have proved to be—for his sake and for Your glory—my brother’s keeper!

I’ve highlighted othe stuff that might get the message across about the atonement issue. I’ve just used stuff I’ve already written but I’m sure others will fill in the gaps to clarify things for you

 

[Nita]

Hi there.

Can someone help me understand the atonement?

I should know this already, but how does Jesus’ suffering on the cross affect us? I’ve heard of ‘penal substitution’, and it seems to make sense, but I’ve heard it’s not what the church teaches.

Or was it just a symbol for God’s love for us? Sorry if these are heretical, but I’m just trying to work stuff out.

So if someone could explain it to me or give me an article online, that would be awesome.

Thanks!!!

I don’t think any human understands the actual mechanics, so to speak, of atonement. For us, there is still much mystery. What we do know is that Jesus did make atonement for the sin/s of the world.

Re “penal substitution”: Usually the way I’ve heard this teaching explained is that every sin involves a punishment. So, for someone (Jesus) to atone for all sin, all the punishments involved needed to be “added up” and the total amount of wrath/pain/etc. due for all these sins was inflicted upon Jesus. Jesus took it all, as a substitute for us This concept of penal substitution is contrary to Church teaching. That it’s erroneous becomes obvious when one considers that faithful Christians still do experience pain, suffering, and death.

Jesus was afflicted for our sins, bore our sins. (Isaiah 53)
Have you read paragraphs 613-623 in the Catechism? Here is a link if you don’t have the book. vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1O.HTM

What I will give now are just some of my own thoughts - ways of looking at atonement that don’t involve the penal aspect. I don’t “believe” these thoughts, I just consider them “possible” ways of understanding (that would be in conformity with Church teaching and Scripture).
One of the things I ponder are St. Paul’s words (Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15) - first Adam and second/Adam.

When the first Adam brought death for all, it came about through only one sin. He, personally experienced the punishment (pain, death) of only his own sin/s. (However, altho not personally experienced by Adam, the “amount” of pain/sin/death multiplied hugely throughout time.)

Then, in considering the atonement, I consider Jesus as personally taking on the punitive consequences of sin (pain, death), experiencing them in His human nature (not just sure how to state this) at an “individual” level/degree (as opposed to the “added up total penal” concept). Jesus “took on” pain, suffering, death, experienced it fully in His human nature - and through His perfect obedience (making reparation for Adam’s disobedience) overcame death/passed through it and was resurrected with a body and soul now immortally alive.

The restoration of union between God and man was accomplished by Jesus; the flow of supernatural life to humans restored (sacraments). Through the power of God’s life, our cooperation with it, we too can withstand suffering/pain/death without mortally sinning.

Will stop now. (Tried to give just an outline; my thoughts could go on endlessly!!!) That is kind of a basic outlook that I bring into readings of Church teaching and Scripture about atonement, expiation, etc. I’d chuck it in a minute if it ever conflicted with either. My biggest concern when I share personal thoughts is that the words I use won’t express accurately what I mean and could be understood in way that is contrary to Church teaching or thinking.

 

[PeterK]

JJ59,
For me, the atonement is simple justice.

When Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit they simultaneously rejected God. Every choice involves rejection. To chose one fork in the road is to reject the other. This was their sin in the form of disobedience - they rejected God.

To make things right or just God should do to Adam and Eve what they did to him - to follow the old eye for an eye model. God should reject them. But there is a problem here. If God rejects something, has nothing else to do with it so to say, it will cease to exist for God keeps existence in existence.

So what’s a God to do since man can never fully suffer His rejection and thus make things right. “I know,” says God, “I will become a man and suffer the rejection man deserves Myself.”

Isn’t it interesting how much the idea of ‘rejection’ comes up in the OT and NT in regard to the Messiah?

Anyway, a very simplistic approach to a very profound mystery.

Hope it helped.
PeterK