atonement

[javid]

Hi.

Why God needs sacrifice to forgive our sins? In old testament, sinner must kill a animal for atonement and in new testament Lord Jesus died for saving us.

Why God can’t forgive us with no death?

 

[JRKH]

There is a difference between what God can do and what God chooses to do.
In the Old Covenant it did indeed require the sacrifice of an animal. In those days animals were in large part a measure of ones wealth…so the sacrifice was less about killing than it was about giving up a portion of one’s wealth.

In the New Covenant that sort of atonement is made complete by the sacrifice of Christ. An atonement that defeated death through the resurrection.

Of course this does not mean that we do not need to atone for our sins, but that atonement is much more related to repentance and a changed life - an internal sacrifice - than it is to an external “sacrifice” .

Peace
James

 

[Polycarp1]

Hi.

Why God needs sacrifice to forgive our sins? In old testament, sinner must kill a animal for atonement and in new testament Lord Jesus died for saving us.

Why God can’t forgive us with no death?

It tells us something about the nature of God, That not only is He a just God, He is Justice and Truth. He can niether decieve nor be decieved.

The human race had broken the first relationship of oneness by sin: and of itself the human race with all its imperfections on it could make no offering to God in reparation for its sin. Literally the human race could not make reparation. Yet for the human act of rebellion, a human act of atonement was required: for the sin of human nature, only an act of human nature could satisfy–yet this act of human nature man could not perform. Christ was God and Man. The acts He performs in His human nature were truly human acts: yet because every action is of the person, they were acts of God, whose every act is of infinite value: Christ could make the necessary reparation. That particular action of His human nature which Christ chose as an offering-in-reparation–a sacrifice–was His death: at the age of thirty-three He was crucified upon Calvary.

This was the atonement. By it the breach between God and the human race was closed. The race was redeemed from that condition of separation from God into which the sin of Adam, the representative man, had plunged it. Heaven, the final and eternal union of God and man, was once more possible to man. For even the holiest man of the time between Adam’s fall and Christ’s death was still a member of the human race, a member of the race that had lost oneness with God, and as such debarred from heaven. But, by this re-making of the oneness, not only was Life–the Supernatural Life–set flowing with new richness for the elevation of man’s soul: but that Life could now in heaven receive the full and complete flowering which before Calvary was impossible to it. SHEED

ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fsheed_incarnation_dec05.asp

 

[knighttt]

Both Archbishop Sheen and Frank Sheed are laudable and highly recommendable for everyone to read. However, isn’t it true, as some mystics or Saints say, that The Redemption of Man (for which we adore The Most High God) could have been accomplished by a single breath of God, a drop of Divine Blood, or a myriad otherways, so the MEANS of The Redemption of Man wasn’t so much DIVINE REQUIREMENT, but DIVINE PEROGATIVE (capitals used for emphasis). Sometimes The Passion is sadly portrayed as if The Father has a figurative gun to The Son’s Head or that some hostage-negotiation had to be arranged with the enemy of souls The Holy Trinity is Undivided Unity, Co-Equal, and no combination of creatures combined, multiplied exponentially, for a million years, could be no more than a grain of sand compared to the universe that is THE MOST HOLY TRINITY! So, I’ve often wondered, why we feel sorrow, for something that was entirely GOD’s WILL. We are told nowhere that if the Jewish Priests, the people of that period, or if the world itself, in unison, engaged in full-throated, single-hearted adoration, that The Redemption would have been accomplished in any other way so “…that the scriptures be fulfilled.” People generally ignore the question or treat me like I was cheering on the lunatics who butchered The Lord, so if anyone out there has something to add, please in charity, do so ABUNDANTLY!!! God Bless!!!

 

[Polycarp1]

Both Archbishop Sheen and Frank Sheed are laudable and highly recommendable for everyone to read. However, isn’t it true, as some mystics or Saints say, that The Redemption of Man (for which we adore The Most High God) could have been accomplished by a single breath of God, a drop of Divine Blood, or a myriad otherways, so the MEANS of The Redemption of Man wasn’t so much DIVINE REQUIREMENT, but DIVINE PEROGATIVE (capitals used for emphasis). Sometimes The Passion is sadly portrayed as if The Father has a figurative gun to The Son’s Head or that some hostage-negotiation had to be arranged with the enemy of souls The Holy Trinity is Undivided Unity, Co-Equal, and no combination of creatures combined, multiplied exponentially, for a million years, could be no more than a grain of sand compared to the universe that is THE MOST HOLY TRINITY! So, I’ve often wondered, why we feel sorrow, for something that was entirely GOD’s WILL. We are told nowhere that if the Jewish Priests, the people of that period, or if the world itself, in unison, engaged in full-throated, single-hearted adoration, that The Redemption would have been accomplished in any other way so “…that the scriptures be fulfilled.” People generally ignore the question or treat me like I was cheering on the lunatics who butchered The Lord, so if anyone out there has something to add, please in charity, do so ABUNDANTLY!!! God Bless!!!

When we talk about God’s will we have to remember that He has His positive will and His permisive will. He can make things happen and he can allow things to happen. Jesus being God knew what sacrifice was needed to fulfil the Father’s salvific plan for fallen mankind and what Justice would require He volonteered to be that sacrifice. In short to pay the required price for our sins. Could God have accomplished our salvation without without the blood sacifice and still been true to himself and to the justice which he is?
We say that God can do anything but in fact God can’t be untrue to His own divine nature so we trust Him that it was necessary and thank Him for it.

 

[Angainor]

Hi.

Why God needs sacrifice to forgive our sins? In old testament, sinner must kill a animal for atonement and in new testament Lord Jesus died for saving us.

Why God can’t forgive us with no death?

Because sin is serious business. Something must die.

 

[down_under]

When we talk about God’s will we have to remember that He has His positive will and His permisive will. He can make things happen and he can allow things to happen. Jesus being God knew what sacrifice was needed to fulfil the Father’s salvific plan for fallen mankind and what Justice would require He volonteered to be that sacrifice. In short to pay the required price for our sins. Could God have accomplished our salvation without without the blood sacifice and still been true to himself and to the justice which he is?
We say that God can do anything but in fact God can’t be untrue to His own divine nature so we trust Him that it was necessary and thank Him for it.

to further his very good point a covenant can only end in the death of one of the two parties. God already promised Noah he would not destroy man again before the last day of judgement (something to that effect). in other words God who loved us would rather die himself then destroy man which He sees as His children.

the first covenant had to be ended (it was broken by man) before a new more prefect covenant could be established. The death of Christ (as both man and God) accomplished both of these goals and nothing else would have.