Atrittion repentance unfair?

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Church says someone with only Atrittion can’t be saved they need contriction repentance.

So does that means all atherist go to hell? why? Atheist can’t do contriction repentance because they do not believe in God.

Why is it that if you only have atrition repentance but you confess your sins to a priest then you are saved?

Isnt that unfair? in the sense that being catholic and confess your sins to a priest is something circumstancial, not all people have that possibility…
 
bul said:
Church says someone with only Atrittion can’t be saved they need contriction repentance.
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Your premise is incorrect.

Attrition is the desire to avoid hell. Contrition is sorrow for having offended God in his goodness by our sins. Attrition is sufficient for attaining forgiveness in the Sacrament of Penance.

-Fr ACEGC
 
edward_george1 said:
Your premise is incorrect.
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My premise is OK: you are assuming Atrittion under Confession, I already said that is OK to be saved, but the Church says that outside Confession, Atrittion is not ENOUGH, that is the unfair thing.

If there is no sacramental Confession, Atrittion is not enough, that is what the Church says
 
Atheists can be saved through implicit perfect contrition and acts of love towards neighbor, by which they may enter the state of grace. Such things are inherently ordered towards God and the Lord may choose to give them the efficacious grace. All salvation conundrums are resolved if one always remembers two thinga: 1) no one deserves salvation, 2) there is NO ACT by which anyone, Catholic or not, praying or not, even eating the Eucharist, can do to merit salvation on your own 3) ultimately God saves who He wants to save, and outside of His special love for those who He wants to bring to that supernatural end, there is not one saved.
 
I think all of you are not getting my point, I am not talking about if we deserve heaven or not:

Look for CCC 1452
  1. Only those that repent becasue they love GOD can reach perfect repentance, atheist do not beleive in GOD so it is impossible for them to reach perfect repentance
  2. Another subject is: How is it fair that 2 people that only have imperfect repentance just before death, one does not get saved and the other it is saved only because he is lucky to be catholic and wanted to use sacrament of confession? Does being Catholic incresases your chances of salvation? That is unfair, most people are not guilty of that (80% of the world?)
 
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This is why we’re Catholic and not people who walk around saying “it doesn’t matter what you believe because all roads go to God.” Belief and the sacraments do matter.

Now let’s suppose there is an atheist in a part of the world Christianity never reached. However, despite being atheist, he has a strong sense of the truth and the good and sees in himself various imperfections, desires to amend his ways and turn away from what we’d call sin. Due to a defect in knowledge he doesn’t know God personally, nor has Christianity been revealed to him. Still, he is sorry for his sins? Will God forgive him? Without going every possible example on a case-by-case basis, I think the answer may be yes. He has invincible ignorance? What about atheists in Christian lands? Well, I think it’d be harder to claim invincible ignorance, but I can’t rule out such a situation ever happening.

Keep in mind the conditions for a sin to be mortal, too.
 
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bul said:
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edward_george1:
Your premise is incorrect.
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My premise is OK: you are assuming Atrittion under Confession, I already said that is OK to be saved, but the Church says that outside Confession, Atrittion is not ENOUGH, that is the unfair thing.

If there is no sacramental Confession, Atrittion is not enough, that is what the Church says
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Attrition is a preparation for grace, but the actual reception of sanctifying grace requires the further charity of the act of individual confession stipulated by the Catholic Church.

From the Council of Trent, Session XIV (November 25, 1551):
The Council teaches, furthermore, that though it sometimes happens that this contrition is perfect because of charity and reconciles man to God, before this sacrament is actually received, this reconciliation nevertheless must not be ascribed to the contrition itself without the desire of the sacrament which is included in it. That imperfect contrition [can. 5] which is called attrition, since it commonly arises either from the consideration of the baseness of sin or from fear of hell and its punishments, if it renounces the desire of sinning with the hope of pardon, the Synod declares, not only does not make a person a hypocrite and a greater sinner’ but is even a gift of God and an impulse of the Holy Spirit, not indeed as already dwelling in the penitent, but only maying him, assisted by which the penitent prepares a way for himself unto justice. And though without the sacrament of penance it cannotperselead the sinner to justification, nevertheless it does dispose him to obtain the grace of God in the sacrament of penance. For the Ninivites, struck in a salutary way by this fear in consequence of the preaching of Jonas which was full of terror, did penance and obtained mercy from the Lord [cf.Jonas 3]. For this reason, therefore, do some falsely accuse Catholic writers, as if they taught that the sacrament of penance confers grace without any pious endeavor on the part of those who receive it, a thing which the Church of God has never taught or pronounced. Moreover, they also falsely teach that contrition is extorted and forced, and that it is not free and voluntary [can. 5]

Can. 5. If anyone says that this contrition, which is evoked by examination, recollection, and hatred of sins “whereby one recalls his years in the bitterness of his soul” [ Isa. 38:15], by pondering on the gravity of one’s sins, the multitude, the baseness, the loss of eternal happiness, and the incurring of eternal damnation, together with the purpose of a better life, is not a true and a beneficial sorrow, and does not prepare for grace, but makes a man a hypocrite, and a greater sinner; finally that this sorrow is forced and not free and voluntary: let him be anathema
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Denzinger - English translation, older numbering (See 898, 915)
 
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Wesrock said:
Will God forgive him?
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Of course that is what I believe, but then why defining contriction as:

“When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.”

2 conditions are needed here:

-Repentance that arises from loving God above all else. (Not possible if you do not believe in GOD.
  • If it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession (Impossible for an atheist)
I agree with you, that if someone has invencible ignorance he will be saved, but that contradicts the definition of perfect repentance that perfect repentance REQUIRES firm resolution to go Confession, so my point is that definition is wrong.
 
This is why I said implicit perfect contrition, which is possible even if one does not acknowledge God.
 
bul said:
Another subject is: How is it fair that 2 people that only have imperfect repentance just before death, one does not get saved and the other it is saved only because he is lucky to be catholic and wanted to use sacrament of confession? Does being Catholic incresases your chances of salvation? That is unfair, most people are not guilty of that (80% of the world?)
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And what about this?¿
 
It might. We do not know exactly until we see the full number of who is saved, but it also might cause many Catholics to be damned, for things like sacrilegious communions, false confessions, and because they are no longer ignorant and are baptized, there can be no forgiveness for them when they abandon the teachings they know to be true. Just because someone uses the sacrament of confession does not mean it was salvific for them. Unless God tells you, even with your best confessions and communions, you can not have more than a human intellectual certitude of your being in a state of grace. Salvation is fully from the Lord alone, and not even participation in His religion, although He uses it to bring people to salvation and perfection and to give Grace to the world.
 
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bul said:
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bul:
Another subject is: How is it fair that 2 people that only have imperfect repentance just before death, one does not get saved and the other it is saved only because he is lucky to be catholic and wanted to use sacrament of confession? Does being Catholic incresases your chances of salvation? That is unfair, most people are not guilty of that (80% of the world?)
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And what about this?¿
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Does the non-Christian repent over fear of Hell or because they truly feel like they’ve lived offensively?

And the benefit of being Catholoc or part of the apostolic churches is precisely being in a Church that teaches how to love holy and to be able to avail oneself of the sacraments.

You seem to think it unfair that not all ways are equal.
 
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God is not unfair. He is the perfect balance of mercy and justice. He gave us a way to be saved and we should follow it.
 
Wesrock said:
You seem to think it unfair that not all ways are equal.
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Of course not, but Catholicism is not the ONLY way, you seem to think that we christians have some kind of favouritism, or more opportunities than others when it comes to salvation, I can’t believe in a God like that, because if you or me were born in Afghanistan, IRAQ etc… we would not be Catholics, not even christians, and Do you think is it fair then that we have LESS opportunities because we were born in a diferent religion? you dont pick your religion when you are young, it is “imposed” by your parents.

I can’t believe in a God that plays dice when it comes to our salvation
 
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Yes, Catholicism Is the only way. . .but in this world people might not recognize that they are Catholic.

Or to put it another way, in this world you might think you are Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, not religious. . .but if you get to heaven, you’ll find out you’re truly Catholic.

A lot of people today think that there are ‘lots of roads’ to God. Christ Himself told us HE is the way, the truth and the life, and NO One comes to God except through Him.

As ‘Christians’, especially baptized in the Trinitarian formula, we are united with Him but to a greater or a lesser extent. Through following the fullness of the Catholic faith, we would be united as fully as one can be on earth, and to complete and utter fullness in heaven. NonCatholic Christians in following their faith to its fullness are united to Christ as fully as their faith will allow. Obviously some Christian faiths are closer to the Catholic faith—the closer they are to the major Catholic points the closer they will be to Christ.

Finally we have God’s great paradox: That we can be baptized Catholics or nonCatholic Christians or non Christians or WHATEVER and still wind up united to Him or not by our own free choice. It’s going to be harder for nonCatholics. And it is going to be harder for Catholics who do NOT follow their faith fully.

That’s why you can have Sally Spiritual but not religious, who supports ABC and gay marriage and marches for All sorts of secular things that are not supported by the Church, but Sally is passionate in following what she feels is true and she searches for the truth. She doesn’t always find it but because she is looking for God (by looking for truth even though she doesn’t know it) she MAY wind up saved

Ahead of Carol Catholic who goes through the motions, shows up at her Catholic Church now and then, but does so not because she is looking for Christ, but because the local priest is a die-hard 60s protestor who over the 40 years Carol has been attending the parish has taught nothing but I’m OK you’re OK and self esteem, and Sally goes looking for an ego boost, decent coffee, gossip, and cutting down ‘rigid’ Catholics who might not be sufficiently ‘woke’. While Carol parades in her white robe ‘helping at Mass’ she pays no attention to WHO is on the altar, since the Eucharist is only ‘symbolic’ anyway.
 
OP, are you under the impression that all things in life are fair? Who decides the criteria for something to be judged as fair or unfair?
 
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Minks said:
OP, are you under the impression that all things in life are fair?
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Of course not all things that happen in this life are not FAIR, but God is.
Minks said:
Who decides the criteria for something to be judged as fair or unfair?
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I am sorry I do not mean to offend you but that question demonstrates someone with a lack of conscience, what do you follow when you need to chose between good or evil? a book? a priest? a group of priests? people with a black conscience that lived 2000 years ago?

This does not mean you can’t read books, listen to priests, good people in order to make a decision, but the last thing is YOUR CONSCIENCE (And BTW that is what Vatican II says)
 
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