A
AClark
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I have often heard secular people ask Christians why God allows (or perhaps seems to cause) the suffering of innocents if He is all loving. How can we respond to these remarks?
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T
Trishie
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Perhaps you might find some helpful thoughts
gracecommunity.info/discus/messages/8/11.html?1021414644
gracecommunity.info/discus/messages/8/11.html?1021414644
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prodigalson12
Guest
The premise is difficult to convey to these outsiders, they have no point of reference to draw upon as we do. Try this on for size, just so they can get a glimps of it all. When we suffer, so does he right along with us, and likely, even more so. Take into account what Christ had to endure suffering wise.
Recently I pulled out my drawing pad, I’ve been facing some serious tribulations and things were feeling pretty hopeless for a while. What I drew was him carrying his cross, and it stuck with me, it put the pain I was feeling into perspective, that his was far worse while carrying that cross, worse then anything I could imagine. God did this to show that he feels our pain and wanted to demonstrate this while he was here in mortal form.
It’s impossible to convey the Loving nature of God to one that is not receptive to it, try to get them to think of him as a child thinks of their daddy. Taking into their own concept of understanding as well, most innocent suffering is man made, and man himself can prevent it from happening in the first place.
Also take into account, if they wanted God to behave in a way they desired, the very first thing to go would be our free will and our individuality, and in fact, might as well take away our immortal soul in the process, for it is not us living our lives any more, it is him living it for us, like a puppet master of sorts, and that is not why he created us in the first place.
Recently I pulled out my drawing pad, I’ve been facing some serious tribulations and things were feeling pretty hopeless for a while. What I drew was him carrying his cross, and it stuck with me, it put the pain I was feeling into perspective, that his was far worse while carrying that cross, worse then anything I could imagine. God did this to show that he feels our pain and wanted to demonstrate this while he was here in mortal form.
It’s impossible to convey the Loving nature of God to one that is not receptive to it, try to get them to think of him as a child thinks of their daddy. Taking into their own concept of understanding as well, most innocent suffering is man made, and man himself can prevent it from happening in the first place.
Also take into account, if they wanted God to behave in a way they desired, the very first thing to go would be our free will and our individuality, and in fact, might as well take away our immortal soul in the process, for it is not us living our lives any more, it is him living it for us, like a puppet master of sorts, and that is not why he created us in the first place.
A
AClark
Guest
Thanks Everyone!
One example which secular people seem to like to use is the suffering of babies due to some terrible disease. I was wondering if the reasons for the babies’ suffering are incomprehensible, or if there is some other reason we know of.
One example which secular people seem to like to use is the suffering of babies due to some terrible disease. I was wondering if the reasons for the babies’ suffering are incomprehensible, or if there is some other reason we know of.
J
Jermosh
Guest
How is God loving? Does God love all people, or just some, Does God love a sinner? Are we Gods children, or only adopted through our covenent with Christ? Are these biblical statements or Mans attempt of relativism?I have often heard secular people ask Christians why God allows (or perhaps seems to cause) the suffering of innocents if He is all loving. How can we respond to these remarks?
Sorry for the questions, I just think they are importent in such a discussion.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Here is an interesting exercise: visualize a God who is INFINITE.
It is very difficult to do.
We cannot comprehend INFINITY.
But God is INFINITE.
Anyway try it.
It is very difficult to do.
We cannot comprehend INFINITY.
But God is INFINITE.
Anyway try it.
P
pamnbam
Guest
We live in an imperfect world where we have such things happen. Such was the consequence of original sin. Yes, Adam and Eve screwed it all up for us. But it won’t be that way forever. Until that time, we’re left to make the most of what we have. None of the negative situations in our world means that God doesn’t love us or can’t be all-loving. This is just a temporary consequence of an imperfect world.
T
thistle
Guest
I recommend these three books:I have often heard secular people ask Christians why God allows (or perhaps seems to cause) the suffering of innocents if He is all loving. How can we respond to these remarks?
Arise From Darkness by Father Benedict Groeschel
Making Sense Out Of Suffering by Peter Kreeft
Why Does God Permit Evil by Dom Bruno Webb
C
Crumpy
Guest
In my mind these words form slightly different sentences, maybe we mean the same thing or close to it.We live in an imperfect world where we have such things happen. Such was the consequence of original sin. Yes, Adam and Eve screwed it all up for us. But it won’t be that way forever. Until that time, we’re left to make the most of what we have. None of the negative situations in our world means that God doesn’t love us or can’t be all-loving. This is just a temporary consequence of an imperfect world.
Yes, the consequences of sin are a big part of our suffering. In my own family the consequences of alcoholism have lasted over several generations, on the one side, and, let’s say, pride is the cause of a lot of problems on the other side of my family. I’ve got to have that ole’ “serentity prayer” around and even memorized to deal with the things that I cannot change.
Our society in the U.S. is suffering in many ways from pride and apostasy from Christianity in any form. There are the deaths due to abortion and the sins of a sexual nature due to our hedonism and demands for immediate gratification.
In other words, we suffer from our abuse of the privilege of our free wills, and it is not fair to push that on God.
In those first two chapters of Genesis, there was a tree of life, whose fruit was supposed to give eternal life. That shows that mankind was not created by God as beings that are physically immortal – we were always going to die, in the flesh. And, we don’t have to assume and “evil” God who has planned the time and place and circumstances for each of us, according to His unknowable ways. The Psalms say that even the hairs of our head are numbered, just as the length of our days.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Today is Palm Sunday and next Sunday is Easter.
This week commemorates the crucifixion of Jesus.
So, take a look at the Corpus nailed to the Cross.
God is Infinite.
Jesus is Infinite.
Yet, God loved us so much that He allowed His Son, Jesus, to be crucified for our sins.
It is utterly incomprehensible that anyone would have so much love that He would allow His Son to be killed for us.
But God loves us so much that He allowed that terrible thing to happen.
To make matters even “worse”. Jesus is God, but on Holy Thursday at the “Last Supper”, He instituted the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. In which a piece of bread becomes HIM!
What a deliberately accepted humiliation that is!
AND, It (the Sacred Host) gives Grace to those who eat It!
God, the Infinite, takes on the appearance of a piece of bread and allows the lowliest finite creations to eat His Body and drink His Blood.
THAT is Love.
Just meditate / daydream about that Divine Infinite Sacrifice for a while.
WHY did He do that???
Think about how Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son … the precursor event to the Crucifixion.
Next Sunday is Easter, when the killed Jesus rises from the dead.
And then we have Divine Mercy Sunday. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=323355&highlight=divine+mercy+sunday ]
How Great Is God!!
This week commemorates the crucifixion of Jesus.
So, take a look at the Corpus nailed to the Cross.
God is Infinite.
Jesus is Infinite.
Yet, God loved us so much that He allowed His Son, Jesus, to be crucified for our sins.
It is utterly incomprehensible that anyone would have so much love that He would allow His Son to be killed for us.
But God loves us so much that He allowed that terrible thing to happen.
To make matters even “worse”. Jesus is God, but on Holy Thursday at the “Last Supper”, He instituted the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. In which a piece of bread becomes HIM!
What a deliberately accepted humiliation that is!
AND, It (the Sacred Host) gives Grace to those who eat It!
God, the Infinite, takes on the appearance of a piece of bread and allows the lowliest finite creations to eat His Body and drink His Blood.
THAT is Love.
Just meditate / daydream about that Divine Infinite Sacrifice for a while.
WHY did He do that???
Think about how Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son … the precursor event to the Crucifixion.
Next Sunday is Easter, when the killed Jesus rises from the dead.
And then we have Divine Mercy Sunday. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=323355&highlight=divine+mercy+sunday ]
How Great Is God!!
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
This is from a recent post by Tezza as a response to a poster who is struggling with some of these issues. It’s really an excellent post; better that I could have written it.
Here’s some info on Divine Mercy Sunday:
Divine Mercy Sunday is the First Sunday after Easter. It was named by Pope John Paul II at the canonization of St. Maria Faustina on April 30, 2000, and then officially decreed by the Vatican.
Jesus revealed in various revelations to St. Faustina that it was His desire that we celebrate this special feast. “The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness. It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter. Mankind will not have peace until it turns to the Fount of My Mercy.” (Diary, 699)
Our Lord revealed to St. Faustina His desire to literally flood us with His graces on that day. Just consider each of the promises and desires that He expressed about Mercy Sunday, which are recorded in the main passage of the Diary — passage 699 — about Mercy Sunday:
On that day the very depths of My tender Mercy are open.
I pour out a whole ocean of graces upon these souls who approach the Fount of My mercy [the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist].
The soul that will go to Confession [beforehand] and receive Holy Communion [on that day] shall obtain complete forgiveness of sins and punishment.
On that day all the divine floodgates through which grace flow are opened.
Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet.
The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness.
It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter.
apostlesofdivinemercy.org…rcySunday.html
Here’s some info on Divine Mercy Sunday:
Divine Mercy Sunday is the First Sunday after Easter. It was named by Pope John Paul II at the canonization of St. Maria Faustina on April 30, 2000, and then officially decreed by the Vatican.
Jesus revealed in various revelations to St. Faustina that it was His desire that we celebrate this special feast. “The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness. It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter. Mankind will not have peace until it turns to the Fount of My Mercy.” (Diary, 699)
Our Lord revealed to St. Faustina His desire to literally flood us with His graces on that day. Just consider each of the promises and desires that He expressed about Mercy Sunday, which are recorded in the main passage of the Diary — passage 699 — about Mercy Sunday:
On that day the very depths of My tender Mercy are open.
I pour out a whole ocean of graces upon these souls who approach the Fount of My mercy [the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist].
The soul that will go to Confession [beforehand] and receive Holy Communion [on that day] shall obtain complete forgiveness of sins and punishment.
On that day all the divine floodgates through which grace flow are opened.
Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet.
The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness.
It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter.
apostlesofdivinemercy.org…rcySunday.html
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