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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
Says who?
Then people that are asleep or under power sedatives aren’t persons anymore.
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nicholasG
Guest
A fetus is unborn.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
That’s not much of a justification.A fetus is unborn.
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Abrosz
Guest
The actual “working” of the organism is different before and after the birth. The first breath “marks” the independent existence.OK, that is a fundamental, biological distinction. Now, provide one that is relevant to the discussion, which allows for biologically distinguishing a child just before birth from one just after birth.
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Abrosz
Guest
Please get serious.Says who?
To be asleep or in coma is normal. A lobotomy would deprive the lobotomized person of the part of the brain which responsible for the features of personhood.Then people that are asleep or under power sedatives aren’t persons anymore.
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
Oh, right. Says you. We’re sorry for offending you, oh infallible arbiter of morality. Forgive us our transgressions.Please get serious.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
It was an unproven assertion.Please get serious.
Nonetheless they don’t show signs of personhood.To be asleep or in coma is normal. A lobotomy would deprive the lobotomized person of the part of the brain which responsible for the features of personhood.
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
Okay, so a raven with broken wings isn’t a raven. It’s a new kind of bird because it can’t fly.The actual “working” of the organism is different before and after the birth. The first breath “marks” the independent existence.
I thought we’d transcended the description of species by characteristics long ago with DNA analysis?
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Abrosz
Guest
Sure they do. To be in a resting state is part of being a person.Nonetheless they don’t show signs of personhood.
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Aquinas11
Guest
“So you believe that the vaginal plane magically confers personhood?”The actual “working” of the organism is different before and after the birth. The first breath “marks” the independent existence.
-Ben Shapiro
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
No need to pursue this line, as he’s already said those in vegitative states aren’t people:Nonetheless they don’t show signs of personhood
Anyone who is in a persistent vegetative state
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
Even animals sleep but they aren’t persons.Sure they do. To be in a resting state is part of being a person.
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Abrosz
Guest
Nope, is just an injured animal. And DNA is not precise. There is no precise human DNA, only a huge realm of molecular structures, we CALL human DNA. What about the mutants?Okay, so a raven with broken wings isn’t a raven. It’s a new kind of bird because it can’t fly.
I thought we’d transcended the description of species by characteristics long ago with DNA analysis?
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
“Mutants,” if they’re grouped as members of homo sapiens are people. Simple. If not, that’s a new discussion beyond the scope of this one.
I draw an absolute line because I realize that I have no right to draw lines between some humans and others. Every member of our species is a person. Period.
I draw an absolute line because I realize that I have no right to draw lines between some humans and others. Every member of our species is a person. Period.
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Aquinas11
Guest
A parasite or another symbiotic entity are not considered “human” beings.
How can the baby be “another entity” and “her body”?I support the women’s right to have dominion over her body.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
He means that she can get rid of things in her body not that the baby is her body.How can the baby be “another entity” and “her body”?
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Abrosz
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Persistent, irreversible vegetative state. Poor Terry Schiavo comes to mind.No need to pursue this line, as he’s already said those in vegitative states aren’t people:
Biologically the idea of “species” is an arbitrary nomenclature.“Mutants,” if they’re grouped as members of homo sapiens are people.
Nope. Someone whose EEG shows no brain activity does not qualify to be considered a “person”.Every member of our species is a person. Period.
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Aquinas11
Guest
The difference between any two things is enormous when you focus on one particular aspect of the two things (“when it comes to…”)The difference is enormous when it comes to
If two things are 95% the same but 5% different, your argument is they’re fundamentally different “when it comes to” the 5%.
Again, per this argument, both a fetus and child are “fundamentally different” than mother and hence there is no moral distinction
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
So if somebody threw him in a woodchipper, that’d be okay with you?Persistent, irreversible vegetative state. Poor Terry Schiavo comes to mind.
Forgive me for not accepting your definitions. I don’t see how brain activity determines personhood at all. You have yet to prove it’s not arbitrary.Nope. Someone whose EEG shows no brain activity does not qualify to be considered a “person”.
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Ender
Guest
Simple differences are irrelevant; no one suggested you couldn’t find things that distinguish one individual from another. You asserted the existence of fundamental, biological differences. That’s what I’m waiting for you to provide. Breathing and not breathing does not qualify as such a distinction.The actual “working” of the organism is different before and after the birth. The first breath “marks” the independent existence.
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